H
HagiaSophia
Guest
4 marks:
Sin always seeks rationalization.
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T
Tyler_Smedley
Guest
Homosexuality is a dissorder…if I were a Bishop I would not ordain any openly homosexual man.
R
Richardols
Guest
4 marks:
I get a pain from both those groups - the ones who think the Church went south after VatII and the ones who think that VatII gave us free license.
Hear, hear! Orthodoxy is orthodoxy. It isn’t “traditionalism” nor is it “progressivism.”
I get a pain from both those groups - the ones who think the Church went south after VatII and the ones who think that VatII gave us free license.
B
Brad
Guest
Whether a disorder is chosen or not, it is still a disorder. Being wonderful and compassionate are not the only prerequisites of being a priest.
B
Brad
Guest
It is also commonly accepted that sin is no big deal. What is commonly accepted is not what is true. God made them male and female. God deemed homosexual actions and any sexual activity outside marriage to be sinful. God made us. That’s the way it is.
I don’t assume that all homosexuals are “mental cases.” I believe that people that commit homosexual acts and see them as normal and not sinful have a mentally impaired condition.
The medical and psychiatric professions are heavily influenced by the culture at large which has accepted that there is a material/physical order (because it can be defined and measured) but refustes to believe that the moral order is real (because it cannot be emperically proven).
When my doctor recommends that my daughter use birth control, the doctor remains a professional but is truly wrong.
O
Other_Eric
Guest
Hi Guys!
If we are to adopt a rule for Holy Orders that creates in homosexual temptations an insurmountable impediment to ordination, how much initiative should the seminary go through to discover if its applicants are subject to the disorder? Self-testimony of the applicant would not be enough as any homosexual who applies, knowing the rule, is unlikely to be truthful about his own condition and doesn’t that, in and of itself, create an even more disturbing situation?
If we are to adopt a rule for Holy Orders that creates in homosexual temptations an insurmountable impediment to ordination, how much initiative should the seminary go through to discover if its applicants are subject to the disorder? Self-testimony of the applicant would not be enough as any homosexual who applies, knowing the rule, is unlikely to be truthful about his own condition and doesn’t that, in and of itself, create an even more disturbing situation?
N
Norwich
Guest
Quite right, another is celibacy. But, isn’t it as easy for a priest who is homosexual to be as celibate as a priest who is heterosexual?
But tell me, if people are worried about boys being around homosexual priests why aren’t they worried about girls being around heterosexual priests?
M
mercygate
Guest
Little girls have not been a target of most sexual abuse in the church; it’s been mostly teenaged boys.
People do take care about priests being around teenaged girls. Any priest in his right mind takes care about being alone with any woman. I’m no spring chicken, but when I meet with my spiritual director (a priest) we leave the door open.
B
Brad
Guest
Because the percentage of abuse on girls within the church is less than that which occurs in schools, camps, or elsewhere in society. The level of improper homosexual acts largely exceeds that which is found in general society.
In addition, the homosexual subculture in the Church has worked to defend and protect predatory priests that make regular used of child pornography and engage in many other illegal and immoral acts, while persecuting those that do not engage in these acts but speak out against them.
K
Kevin_Walker
Guest
You either forget or deny that homosexuality is a mental health disorder; even a ‘chaste’ homosexual is still irrational and has no business as a Priest, or in any occupation requiring emotional stability and clarity of thought.
G
gilliam
Guest
**2358 **The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
- Catholic Catechism
K
Kevin_Walker
Guest
That is correct. A ‘straight’ semanarian who speaks out against the presence of homosexuals in his semanary, usually runs the risk of a poor evaluation by a liberal supervisor who either promotes homosexuality, or is a homosexual himself.
Homosexuals lie to get ordained, then you have homosexuals hiring homosexuals and protecting each other as a group.
Homosexuality is a mental health disorder characterized by severe denial, priapic narcissism, suicidal ideation, obsessive/compulsive behaviour, sado/masochism, and a self-interest that above all else. A celibant homosexual Priest doesn’t prevent a misanthropic behavior pattern.
R
Richardols
Guest
Kevin Walker:
A mental health disorder? Excuse me, Doctor, for questioning your extensive medical knowledge, but I understood that the medical profession, in particular psychiatrists, no longer consider it so, or at least evaluate it on a case by case basis.
J
JKirkLVNV
Guest
Precisely: Dr. Billy Ghram (I spaced out the spelling!) never enters a hotel room unless one of his aides goes in and checks it first. It’s that kind of caution that’s called for if we want to avoid scandals. I think that altar servers should be trained by married couples (yes, I know that married men and sometimes women molest children, but both of them as a married couple?), supervised by them, etc. The only time a priest should ever be alone with a child is in the context of the confessional and then the parents should have taken the kid to church in the first place and be waiting outside. Kids need to be around priests, but in numbers greater than, say, five at a time. I’m never alone in my classroom with a child unless the doors are open to the other classrooms and then I talk to the child by the door.
K
Kevin_Walker
Guest
“A new Vatican glossary of sexual terms says homosexuals are not normal and that countries that allow gay marriages are inhabited by people with ‘profoundly disordered minds.’”
“The Lexicon On Ambiguous and Colloquial Terms about Family Life and Ethical Questions” says "homosexuality stems from an ‘unresolved psychological conflict.’"
"It says those who want to give homosexuals the same legal rights as heterosexuals ‘deny a psychological problem which makes homosexuality against the social fabric.’ "
April 1st, 2003
“The Lexicon On Ambiguous and Colloquial Terms about Family Life and Ethical Questions” says "homosexuality stems from an ‘unresolved psychological conflict.’"
"It says those who want to give homosexuals the same legal rights as heterosexuals ‘deny a psychological problem which makes homosexuality against the social fabric.’ "
April 1st, 2003
R
Richardols
Guest
Excuse me for not citing the particular mental health organizations who deny that homosexuality is a mental disorder. (No denying that homosexuals engaging in homosexual practices is a mortal sin, but I’m speaking of psychological disorder.)
The American Medical Association
The American Counseling Association
The American Psychiatric Association
The American Psychological Association
The American Academy of Pediatrics
The American Medical Association
The American Counseling Association
The American Psychiatric Association
The American Psychological Association
The American Academy of Pediatrics
K
Kevin_Walker
Guest
They are reconsidering their position in light of the wide spread homosexual abuse scandal in the Catholic Church, and plans are to revise the DSM to reinclude homosexuality. Homosexuals can’t rape teenage boys and get away with it.
N
Norwich
Guest
Kevin Walker:
Try reading the CCC occasionally.
[2357](javascript
penWindow(‘cr/2357.htm’)
Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. (my highlights) These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition. [2359](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2359.htm’) Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
Note how it describes the ACT of homosexuality as being “Intrinsically Disordered” meaning inherent, assential, belonging naturally, against the inclination which is described as “Objectively Disordered” whiuch means external to the mind, actually existing, real. According to the CCC a “Chaste” homosexual can:
*By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection. *
Do you know more than the Church I wonder, do tell?
Your prejudices are showing!!
Try reading the CCC occasionally.
[2357](javascript
penWindow(‘cr/2357.htm’) Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. (my highlights) These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition. [2359](javascript
penWindow(‘cr/2359.htm’) Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.Note how it describes the ACT of homosexuality as being “Intrinsically Disordered” meaning inherent, assential, belonging naturally, against the inclination which is described as “Objectively Disordered” whiuch means external to the mind, actually existing, real. According to the CCC a “Chaste” homosexual can:
*By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection. *
Do you know more than the Church I wonder, do tell?
G
gilliam
Guest
Which begs the question: What is a psychological disorder and how do you differentiate it from someone who is objectively disordered as defined by Catholic doctrine?
and:
Is it possible that something that is not considered a psychological disorder is not considered that because of political reasons? Would that have a bearing on what is classified as objectively disordered as defined by Catholic doctrine?
and…
Can an orientation be considered ‘normal’ and at the same time be considered by Catholics objectively disordered?
K
Kevin_Walker
Guest
Homosexualilty is not a race, religion, ethnic group or the third sex, so I am showing no predjudice whatsoever.
Please read the Homosexuality thread on Catholic Information Forums.
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