'Open up the conversation' on gay priests

[Richardols]

As to how disgusting homosexual priests are, I’d suggest that you read about Fr. Mychal Judge, OFM, an alcoholic and a celibate homosexual who was the New York City Fire Department chaplain, and who died at the World Trade Center attack as Victim #00001. The account of his life and his work with people on all levels, not only his beloved NYFD, is totally inspirational.

 

[Binney]

disgusting?..not one person in this thread has mentioned that word…you seem to be off the wall Richardols

Get with it

 

[gilliam]

Richardols:

As to how disgusting homosexual priests are, I’d suggest that you read about Fr. Mychal Judge, OFM, an alcoholic and a celibate homosexual who was the New York City Fire Department chaplain, and who died at the World Trade Center attack as Victim #00001. The account of his life and his work with people on all levels, not only his beloved NYFD, is totally inspirational.

Why mention he was an alcoholic then?

If 20% of the homosexual priests are not practicing celibacy (and the figure is really estimated to be 70%) we have a big problem in the Church.

 

[Lisa_N]

Other Eric:

Hi Guys!

If we are to adopt a rule for Holy Orders that creates in homosexual temptations an insurmountable impediment to ordination, how much initiative should the seminary go through to discover if its applicants are subject to the disorder? Self-testimony of the applicant would not be enough as any homosexual who applies, knowing the rule, is unlikely to be truthful about his own condition and doesn’t that, in and of itself, create an even more disturbing situation?

FWIW a former classmate is a forensic investigator for sex crimes. She said they can test potential pedophiles with some kind of arousal indicator. Maybe homosexual tendency could also be subject to this kind of a test? I agree, using the honor system has not worked well in the past and those tests that were supposed to screen out homosexuals seemed to screen out the orthodox as being “rigid” in thinking.

Lisa N

 

[Lisa_N]

Richardols:

As to how disgusting homosexual priests are, I’d suggest that you read about Fr. Mychal Judge, OFM, an alcoholic and a celibate homosexual who was the New York City Fire Department chaplain, and who died at the World Trade Center attack as Victim #00001. The account of his life and his work with people on all levels, not only his beloved NYFD, is totally inspirational.

I agree Fr Mychal’s story was absolutely inspirational. But how does knowing about his being a homosexual and an addict ADD to the story? IOW I keep wondering why these very personal challenges need to be public?

Lisa N

 

[Karl_Keating]

Richardols:

As to how disgusting homosexual priests are, I’d suggest that you read about Fr. Mychal Judge, OFM, an alcoholic and a celibate homosexual who was the New York City Fire Department chaplain, and who died at the World Trade Center attack as Victim #00001. The account of his life and his work with people on all levels, not only his beloved NYFD, is totally inspirational.

My recollection is that some months later the story of Fr. Judge, as told by gay activists, was debunked–he was not a homosexual and he died from a heart attack (or some similar cause), not from injuries suffered when the towers collapsed. If he did die through natural causes, that doesn’t lessen his courage in going to the WTC.

 

[4HisChurch]

Any priest who has chosen to act out on these after taking a vow of celibacy must be removed. It is a violation of the vow of celibacy.

I agree. That is what this whole crisis is about. Priests breaking their vows, as well as abusing their flock. Why are/were they allowed to continue!?

I hear some say that there is a fear in the higher levels of the Church that if open teaching/living of heresy were “cracked down upon” that people would leave the church in droves. Would that be such a bad thing…? I’m not so sure any more.

I believe that many of the activist groups that have sprung up after the sexual scandals broke are used as covers by some who want to change the moral stances of the Church on sexual matters (birth control, abortion, homosexuality, divorce/re-marriage and yes, gender “equality” and “fairness.” a.k.a. “women priests,” “neutering God.”)

I agree here too. They decide that the crisis consists of the Church not “accepting” their “lifestyle”. The real crisis is them not accepting the lifestyle they agreed to have when they were ordained–not to mention the lifestyle that is inherant in just being a member of the Church, clergy or not. People who push the agenda you mention, are stealing the Church, IMO. Its sad and its frightening.

 

[Kevin_Walker]

Norwich:

No, actually it’s the doings of bad priests. Not all homosexuals are bad priests and not all bad priests are homosexual.

No, the sexual abuse scandal wasn’t done by bad heterosexual Priests, it was done by homosexual Priests who wouldn’t admit they were doing bad. They actually blamed the victims for their own abuse.

It is mandatory to save the future of the Catholic Church by removing all homosexuals from the Priesthood.

 

[Kevin_Walker]

Richardols:

Crisis in the Church! “Traditionalists” who want to turn back the clock, sedevacantists, “progressives” who want to allow all forms of license, priests who steal from their parishes, priests who have affairs with female parishioners, priests who engage in homosexual practices; all the doing of just the homosexuals? They’re the whipping boys for all the crises in the Church?

Obscurantist! Don’t redirect the blame. Call a spade a spade and not a shovel! The international sexual abuse scandal in the Catholic Church is the direct result of homosexuals in the Priesthood. Don’t use the victims of homosexual rape as scapegoats for your circumlocution and lies.

 

[Kevin_Walker]

Lisa N:

FWIW a former classmate is a forensic investigator for sex crimes. She said they can test potential pedophiles with some kind of arousal indicator. Maybe homosexual tendency could also be subject to this kind of a test? I agree, using the honor system has not worked well in the past and those tests that were supposed to screen out homosexuals seemed to screen out the orthodox as being “rigid” in thinking.

Lisa N

A battery of psychological tests coupled with an interview with a clinical psychologist is almost impossible to beat. This is the same methodology used by the government to screen out homosexuals from sensitive strategic departments and bureaus which require emotional stability and clarity of thought.

The lying homosexual who wants to infilitrate back into the Catholic Priesthood and act like nothing happened so they can begin their recidivist activities against boys is in the making if the Church does not ferret out these closet homosexual Priests.

Just remember: The pedophile and pedorast are both horns on the same homosexual devil!

 

[tcay584]

Kevin Walker:

Homosexuals lie to get ordained, then you have homosexuals hiring homosexuals and protecting each other as a group.

Homosexuality is a mental health disorder characterized by severe denial, priapic narcissism, suicidal ideation, obsessive/compulsive behaviour, sado/masochism, and a self-interest that above all else. A celibant homosexual Priest doesn’t prevent a misanthropic behavior pattern.

Hi Kevin,
You never fail to get my blood boiling. How are things at Conspiracy Theory Central these days? I would like to know from what University you obtained your degree in psychiatry (and don’t say “the school of life”) since you seem to be so intimately aware of the inner workings of the homosexual mind.
I think the “conversation” on gay priests should be halted as it’s going nowhere. The Church has spoken and faithful Catholics are obliged to obey. The more we yell and scream, the more these activists get attention and the more our words (well, not Kevin’s words…he comes through loud and clear) get twisted to suggest things we never said. We should put our money where our mouths are and simply stop supporting any church, college, conference, whatever, that goes against church teachings. These people know what the church teaches…they also don’t like it…they can also get their flock outta here!

 

[Binney]

democratandchronicle. c…323/-1/ARCHIVE2
tcay 584…perhaps you missed this story which was posted in the thread already… are you just cruising for words that make your blood boil?
READ - the above current news item. The Bishop of this diocese knew of a possible child sex offender during the height of the Church Scandal and did nothing to prevent the chance of another incident. We need open dialoge now. In my estimation there are many possible explosive situations waiting to happen. I hope that the Church ‘cleans house’ in an intelligent respectable manner rather than through the American legal system one painful case at a time

 

[Kevin_Walker]

tcay584:

Hi Kevin,
You never fail to get my blood boiling. How are things at Conspiracy Theory Central these days? I would like to know from what University you obtained your degree in psychiatry (and don’t say “the school of life”) since you seem to be so intimately aware of the inner workings of the homosexual mind.
I think the “conversation” on gay priests should be halted as it’s going nowhere. The Church has spoken and faithful Catholics are obliged to obey. The more we yell and scream, the more these activists get attention and the more our words (well, not Kevin’s words…he comes through loud and clear) get twisted to suggest things we never said. We should put our money where our mouths are and simply stop supporting any church, college, conference, whatever, that goes against church teachings. These people know what the church teaches…they also don’t like it…they can also get their flock outta here!

I have a BA in Psych from UMASS, 1984, and two years of graduate school in History. Some classes at Harvard Extension. Four years active duty Navy (Diver) and two years active reserve National Guard (Medic).

In 1970 a Jesuit “Street” Priest named David C. Murphy all of a sudden showed up on my street corner in Southie and hung out with the gang (40 Kids) for about three years. He then began to prey and seduced and slept with two of the guys. He was a Jesuit Priest who got arrested in 2002 as part of the sex abuse scandal with over 60 complaints against him. He is on trial right now.
Another Jesuit Priest was arrested for sexual abuse at Boston College High School, about four miles from my current location.

The Navy rightfully does not allow homosexuals from enlisting yet we had so many ‘gays’ on my second ship that we called it the love boat. Homosexuals were not good shipmates and frequently had psychotic episodes which had to be physically subdued.

The all male celibant Buddhist monestaries in Korea are having a similar homosexual problem themselves.

Homosexuals are very sick-in-the-head and no amount of liberal cant and sophistry will make the intelligent American accept them as a desirable element in a position of authority.

Just always remember: The pedophile and pedorast are both horns on the same homosexual devil!

 

[Benadam]

25% of Priests are gay? Why isn’t the ratio parallel with homosexuality amongst Catholic males? Why isn’t it less since disorder springs from disorder? The article also mentioned that pedophilia is primarily a heterosexual disorder but failed to mention that it’s far from being a heterosexual problem amongst Priests. What’s the payoff for homosexuals? A man who has an ordered sexual response will want a woman and will want her to be his wife. I doubt many heterosexual priests would be adulterers, if any, if they were married. A devout man who desires sex in that way wouldn’t likely discard the safety of marriage and become a priest. A homosexual inherently wants sex outside of marriage. Some perhaps thought the Priesthood would provide that kind of safety some not. Either way it is a dangerous and opportune place for the disorder.

I don’t believe that any disorder should be an automatic disqualification but they should have degrees of serious consideration attached to them in the measure they are manageable in the lifestyle of a priest.

 

[tcay584]

democratandchronicle. c…323/-1/ARCHIVE2
tcay 584…perhaps you missed this story which was posted in the thread already… are you just cruising for words that make your blood boil?
READ - the above current news item. The Bishop of this diocese knew of a possible child sex offender during the height of the Church Scandal and did nothing to prevent the chance of another incident. We need open dialoge now. In my estimation there are many possible explosive situations waiting to happen. I hope that the Church ‘cleans house’ in an intelligent respectable manner rather than through the American legal system one painful case at a time

Binney,
Golly gee…there was a story posted in the thread…how’d I miss that? Guess I’m on cruise control. I did READ the story.
I am not disagreeing with anything in the story, or with the church’s position on this issue. How do you think dialogue will help at this point? We don’t need dialogue…what is there to discuss? Whether or not homosexual priests should enter or remain in the priesthood? We need decisive action… house cleaning as you put it.
Doctor Kevin’s “delicate” way of wording things has in the past, and will in the future, infuriate me occasionally :banghead: . That was all I was referring to. I don’t think it’s bad to ask someone to back up the opinions they put forth as medical facts. I mean, if you’re going to diagnose, shouldn’t you be an MD?

 

[Kevin_Walker]

tcay584:

I mean, if you’re going to diagnose, shouldn’t you be an MD?

True, only an MD can make a diagnosis, which is why I never make diagnosis. But with a BA in PSYCH, I have been trained to make an evaluation, which is what I used to do for a living. You need to learn your medical terminology before you make unsubstantiated accusations.

 

[miguel]

Norwich:

I have never managed to sort out in my own mind the difference between a heterosexual priest and a homosexual priest.
Is it that one is safe; the other not?
Or that one is a peodophile; the other is not?
Or that one is a better priest; the other is not?
Is it that the rule of celibacy is easier to follow for one; and not the other?
Or that an attraction of one sexual orientation is somehow stronger than an attraction of another sexual orientation?
Is it that one makes a better priest than the other because of his sexuality?
Is it that one is more preocupied with thoughts of sex than the other?
Or that the sexual orientation means that one is less able to minister to his flock than the other?
Is it that if both are celibet that one is nearer God than the other?

I hope you will note from these questions that the sexual orientation can be seen from either side, homesexual/heterosexual, if your a good minister, what’s the difference?

Heterosexual attraction is normal and natural. Homosexual attraction is a disorder.

 

[miguel]

4 marks:

…I have actually heard someone say that Jesus Himself was fond of young boys because he said: “Suffer not the little ones to come unto me,” called Saint John (a teenager) the “Beloved Disciple,” and allowed him to rest his head upon His breast at the Last Supper…

I would have kept that blasphemous thought to myself.

 

[Brad]

Richardols:

Why do you presume that a homosexual priest cannot be faithful to the Church and teach the truth?

You’re mixing 2 separate but connected issues. When I say we need faithful, non-dissenting, and couragous priests, I do not necessarily exclude a priest that someone/himself may consider homosexual. My point is that if the priest is faithful, they will be willing to teach the entire deposit of faith, including the fact that homosexual acts, fornication, adultery etc. are sinful (not excluding any of that deposit). It is those that pick and choose what to teach or what to teach against that have allowed a subculture of unaccountable sin to sweep through the priesthood.

 

[Brad]

Richardols:

As to how disgusting homosexual priests are, I’d suggest that you read about Fr. Mychal Judge, OFM, an alcoholic and a celibate homosexual who was the New York City Fire Department chaplain, and who died at the World Trade Center attack as Victim #00001. The account of his life and his work with people on all levels, not only his beloved NYFD, is totally inspirational.

A person can be inspirational and do many wonderful things but not be fit for a particular position. I don’t know the details of Fr. Mychal’s desires or celibacy so I cannot comment on that particular situation except to say that it seems he was very inspirational and self-sacrificing.

Perhaps another example will help. I don’t believe a kleptomaniac should be a priest either. The kleptomaniac may also be a firefighter that saves lives weekly. I still don’t think he’s fit for the priesthood with this condition.