Opinion on the #Metoo movement

[phil19034]

I said that treating women as your mother, sisters, daughters is not helpful if you treat them differently based on being women.

Well then you are projecting your biases onto me and other men.

What I mean by treating other women the same as my mother, sisters and daughter means treating them with RESPECT.

CHIVALRY = RESPECT

I came from a Conservative home/area too. And so did my father. My father knew to NEVER disrespect his mother or SHE would give him a bloody lip.

In the good old days, kids FEARED their moms (esp the German and English ones). You do what Mom says, regardless - even when you’re 50.

Today, people don’t respect their mothers as much because chivalry is dead to many.

If a man doesn’t respect the honor of his mother, sisters and daughters, how can he respect other women?

I remember when a boy called my mother a derogatory term on the school bus when we were in elementary school. We got off the bus and beat him up (not badly, no bruises or bleeding). My grandmother was watching us and later admitted that she was proud of us (she’s 86 and still tells the story with a smile on her face). The kid’s father came over later that day (with his son) to complain to our parents that we beat him up. When my dad told his dad what the kid said about our mother, the man starting spanking his son on our steps!

It’s simple… you must have RESPECT for women. Period. And that’s what chivalry is.

 

[Pup7]

I’m not talking about you. I’m talking about the poster that I was responding to you.

I haven’t taken exception to anything you posted. Just the poster who directly said chivalry is sexual harassment

But that’s not what she said.

 

[Pup7]

In the good old days, kids FEARED their moms (esp the German and English ones). You do what Mom says, regardless - even when you’re 50.

Sidebar - I’ll never forget the day my then late fifties mom went near postal on my then 30 year old brother. In a store. (He deserved it, actually.)

He almost died. I of course was about ten and found it hilarious.

That got me into trouble.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

But even that aside, this is also where the Slut Walks got popularized. Why would someone like Amber Rose, a former stripper who says she loves being a slut and having sex with lots of men also one of the lead voices of the Me Too movement?

She really isn’t. The tag was created by Tarana Burke and later, Alyssa Milano promoted it’s use. Amber Rose isn’t one of the main high-profile names I associate with #MeToo.

 

[DarkLight]

And our point is, we want to be respected as people, not as women. There are plenty of people who say they respect women as women by putting them on a pedestal. The problem with pedestals is there’s no room to move around. “I respect women and that’s why I treat them differently than men” isn’t what we’re after.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I’m not annoyed by not knowing.

I’m annoyed by the way you presented it. I’m 44. I’m an adult.

And that’s your ego reacting.

My daughter is 43, I know you’re both adults.

But I’m an older adult with more experience than you and I shared my experience, which you disagree with.

Also, I didn’t say it was all rosey back in then, life was different and it was harder.

However, I do believe men had more respect for women back then, call it chivalry, but that’s threatening for some women as I’ve seen in this thread.

My error is every participating in this thread to begin with,

Jim

 

[Pup7]

Again source? Having followed the #MeToo movement since it went viral and earlier ones like #YesAllWomen the message of all men being rapists has never been a part of them. Just because some rogue feminist may have said something like that some 30 years ago doesn’t mean that it is the foundation or the logical outcome of the #metoo movement.

That’s all over the place. Google “rape culture”. I hear it on television, read it in magazines…rape is allegedly seen as okay and all men are potential rapists. That’s not from 30 years ago. That’s been said very recently.
It’s the opinion of a LOT of people. It’s disgraceful.

https://jezebel.com/is-there-a-rapist-in-waiting-in-every-guy-5279283

Men are trash … end of discussion – The Mail & Guardian

https://aeon.co/conversations/what-would-stop-men-from-raping-others

https://www.quora.com/Do-you-as-a-female-see-young-men-as-potential-rapists-and-does-it-make-reserved-young-men-live-with-the-tag-Schrödingers-rapist

“All men are potential rapists”. What’s your reaction to this statement… | by Annette in Africa | Medium

 

[phil19034]

phil19034:

I’m not talking about you. I’m talking about the poster that I was responding to you.

I haven’t taken exception to anything you posted. Just the poster who directly said chivalry is sexual harassment

But that’s not what she said.

I asked “what’s wrong with Chivalry?” She responded with “Google benevolent sexism.”

I find the notion to be absurd, because a chivalrous man treats everyone with respect.

 

[Pup7]

But I’m an older adult with more experience than you and I shared my experience, which you disagree with.

I don’t disagree with your experience. I disagree with the belief that that was the universal experience. You seem to think that everyone had that experience. No, they didn’t. It was the ideal and shared by many, but nowhere near all.

“I’m an older adult with more experience than you” - again - that sounds condescending. I’m not a kid, so why say that? I’m an adult as well. And you have no idea what I may have been through or seen in my life. I know 25 year olds who are more “adult” than I am as their life has been about 200 times harder than mine.

That’s not my ego reacting. That’s my feelings. And you hurt them by coming across as condescending just because you’re older than I am. My problem, yes - but step back from what you’ve said and consider someone else’s point of view without immediately assuming I have an ego problem.

 

[phil19034]

And our point is, we want to be respected as people, not as women. There are plenty of people who say they respect women as women by putting them on a pedestal. The problem with pedestals is there’s no room to move around. “I respect women and that’s why I treat them differently than men” isn’t what we’re after.

Again… you are projecting on me. I don’t put anyone on a pedestal because they never live up to that. That’s why we had the sex abuse scandal, because clergy were on a pedestal.

Being chivalrous is about treating EVERYONE with respect (and traditionally also according to their station in life). It’s not just about women.

 

[gracepoole]

Ironically, this showed up in Facebook:

Conference asks: Is the Sexual Revolution to blame for #MeToo?

Mary Rice Hasson, director of the Catholic Women’s Forum and fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center, said at a May 31 conference that “it’s no secret that for many months the #MeToo movement has sparked widespread outrage over sexual harassment and a culture that condoned and excused it.”

She made her remarks at the “#MeToo Moment: Second Thoughts on the Sexual Revolution” conference sponsored by the Catholic Women’s Forum and the Notre Dame Center for Ethics and Culture. The event’s co-sponsors were the Catholic Information Center, the Ethics and Public Policy Center and the Archdiocese of Washington’s Department of Life Issues.

The event brought together panels of experts from the fields of education, faith, law, medicine and the social sciences. Drawing on the papal encyclical “Humanae Vitae” and on past and current events, panelists offered their “second thoughts” on the consequences of the sexual revolution as manifested in #MeToo movement.

Conference asks: Is the Sexual Revolution to blame for #MeToo? | America Magazine

Pretty sure sexual harassment wasn’t created in the 1960s. This conference seems little more than blaming the victim.

 

[Pup7]

I thought that too, I just didn’t say it. I’m glad you did and bummed I didn’t.

It DOES seem like victim blaming.

 

[DarkLight]

Being chivalrous is about treating EVERYONE with respect (and traditionally also according to their station in life). It’s not just about women.

The original discussion here was about treating women differently than men, even if it’s supposedly treating women “better”. You’re the one who said that was saying chivalry was bad.

So if you mean something completely different from chivalry than the original idea that was discussed in this thread of, you know, treating women differently than men, that’s on you to say it.

Hold the door open for everyone. Treat it like a basic act of courtesy toward all people rather than a display of “chivalry.” There’s no reason for it to be a gendered thing.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

This merely shows you either didn’t read the article, or misunderstood the questions the women at the conference talked about.

Here’s what the Cardinal said, of which I’m sure you’ll take wrong;

Washington Cardinal Donald W. Wuerl, the conference’s keynote speaker, spoke about the shift in values caused by the sexual revolution. He noted the widespread acceptance of secularism, the diminishing of and dismissal of Catholic teaching, especially with regard to sexuality, and the re-evaluation of the effects of sexual activity.

“Up until this sexual revolution, this cultural revolution, the so-called moral revolution … there was constant, consistent and accepted reference to morality, and such assurance of a moral reference,” Cardinal Wuerl said. “We knew there was a moral compass in life. Today that’s been greatly undermined, and it’s a result of the sexual revolution.”

The cardinal pointed out that “we live in this heavily secular world in which the reference point does not include a transcendent point,” he said.

I agree with the Cardinal and this isn’t blaming the victims, but the culture we live in today, where the moral boundaries have been blurred.

JIm

 

[AlNg]

Dale Green’s family thought the military had been good for him — until he was convicted of raping a 14-year-old Iraqi girl and killing her and her family.

Too many innocent women and girls have been raped by American and other soldiers. At least in this case, there was some justice, but in most cases, soldiers get away with rape and murder of girls and women. As I noted above,( about #302), it has been reported and testimony has been given by German Catholic priests, that American soldiers raped thousands of German women and children in 1945 and later. And many German women were brutally beaten and shot in the head for resisting.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

War brings out the worst in people, regardless of the side they’re fighting for.

Jim

 

[Pup7]

Your source, somewhat debunked. In a German commentary. Her “research” is questionable.

She claims 190K. Not sure where the 800K came from.

Were our men perfect? No. But these claims seem flimsy.

Book Claims US Soldiers Raped 190,000 German Women Post-WWII - DER SPIEGEL

We have horrible people in uniform today as well, just like we have horrible people sitting in the pews next to us in church that we never really know about.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Which one? We now have to be precise since we acknowledge there was were multiple ones. I’m referring to the one from at least 2 years ago.

Which one what? Slut Walks? It’s movement and an event. But she’s saying the Slut Walks the movement existed before #MeToo went viral so Slut Walks can’t have come out of the #MeToo.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I’m skeptical about the accuracy of the Gebheardt an admitted feminist.

Here’s part of the article causing the speculation;

The total is not the result of deep research in archives across the country. Rather, it is an extrapolation. Gebhardt makes the assumption that 5 percent of the “war children” born to unmarried women in West Germany and West Berlin by the mid-1950s were the product of rape.

Makes an assumption based on the children born to unwedded women that they were the result of rape ?

German women slept with the enemy, just as French women did with Nazi’s, for money, food and favors.

Others had love affairs with soldiers.

This doesn’t mean they were raped.

Yes, I’m sure women were raped by American troops, but far from the 190,000 claimed.

However, any conclusion arrived through assumption is flawed.

Jim

 

[Bruised_Reed]

If someone enjoys getting wrecked at the club and meeting strangers there, even if she didn’t intend to go home with any of them, but then gets raped or assaulted, that guy is the monster…but she did also neglect her own well-being when she chose to get drunk while entangling herself with people she doesn’t know.

The problem with this logic is that there is really zero difference between the victim who is partying and the victim who is dressed modestly, sitting at home, reading their bible. Same rapist. If you emphasize the behavior of the victim you de-emphasize the rapists actions which are the real problem. That is the message behind Slut Walks.