Opinion on the #Metoo movement

[kill051]

I personally don’t feel that way. I’m summarizing what I think some people are trying to say. Promiscuity has its own consequences and I don’t think sexual assault should ever be one of them. People shouldn’t be punished for acting that way. The lifestyle brings about its own pain and suffering

Absolutely correct. I have a gay friend in another state who, while he has been in a primary relationship with a man for several years, is also quite promiscuous, sleeping with any man who takes his fancy. By the grace of God he has so far avoided physical disease, but the toll on his psyche has been devastating. Before he became so ‘gregarious’, shall we say, he was charming, quick-witted, bright and loving. Now he is depressed and suicidal. He sees two different therapists weekly, who as far as I can see are no help at all. They tell him he can’t do anything about his basic nature and to just ‘go with the flow’. While the physical effects of promiscuity can be quite serious, the damage to one’s soul is incalculable. This man used to be the most caringly Christian man of my acquaintance. Now his behavior and attitude are revolting. It’s very difficult for me even to speak with him on the phone, so off-putting is his entire outlook. He is my oldest friend, so I pray for him constantly, but I just cannot put up with the rejoicing he takes in his sin.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Ah, you’re just a year older than my daughter.

No wonder we have a very different view of the world back in the 60’s and 50’s, you weren’t even born.

I bet you’d be surprised to hear that back in the 50’s and early 60’s. women paid less for movie tickets, insurance, clothing and other items. If they went out to dinner with a men, the men paid, even if it was just a social gathering.

Of course they made less money and many women were dependent on the income of their husbands, so, being single wasn’t a piece of cake, but neither was it for a male.

As far as the #Metoo movement, it started with the right intention, but I’m suspicious of a hysteria effect. We’ll see less sexual harassment, but more false accusations and even companies avoiding hiring women, because they don’t want the legal costs of defending themselves and good managers against false accusations.

I’m watching with a skeptical eye.

JIm

 

[phil19034]

You know precisely what that poster meant, so to post all this silliness is just that - it’s silly.

I don’t expect to be treated any differently in a professional environment than a man is, or any differently in a casual encounter in a store or the bank or the pharmacy than a man is.

You know exactly what that poster meant.

Because to the poster, treating women the same way as I would treat my mother, sisters, daughter is apparently offensive to her.

I find the notion that men don’t treat women the same in professional situations as offensive. Are there SOME men (maybe even a lot of men) who are jerks and treat women as less and sexually harasse them? Yes. And they are disgusting. But it’s not all nor most.

But the idea that chivalry causes sexism is silly. Chivalry is about treating women as they should be treating.

Can I treat women the same what I treat men in a professional manner? Yes and I do that. I hold the door for everyone, male and female. I don’t tell anyone they look nice, so I don’t lead them on by accident or be accused of harassment.

However, I cannot typically have the same type of casual relationships with women as I do with men. Why? Because, I never develop romantic feelings for men. I’m married, and I’m someone who has historically fallen for girls/women fast. Sometimes I catch myself getting too close to a woman and work, so I have to distance myself. Otherwise it becomes a near occasion of sin for me because I will start having thoughts or dreams.

I don’t want that. I’m married and love my wife.

In my mind, when men don’t act with chivalry that’s when they wind up getting sued for sexual harassment and/or worse.

Chivalry does not lead to sexual harassment, it protects women from it.

God Bless

 

[Pup7]

No wonder we have a very different view of the world back in the 60’s and 50’s, you weren’t even born.

I bet you’d be surprised to hear that back in the 50’s and early 60’s. women paid less for movie tickets, insurance, clothing and other items. If they went out to dinner with a men, the men paid, even if it was just a social gathering.

That’s a bit condescending, actually. Was that really necessary? I’m 44 - a few days away from 45. Not a teenager. My parents are likely older than your parents or about the same age. My brother is 64. My niece is three years younger than I am. My sister is in her fifties. Big deal.

That actually is me in that picture. Surely you could tell I’m not in my sixties.

I’ve heard all my life about how things were - and I’ve studied how things were as well. I “might not be surprised” at anything.

You have a rosy view of life prior to 1960 anecdotally supported by your own experiences. Please, go back and read history.

Women still pay less for insurance. That’s based on statistics, not sex.

 

[DarkLight]

Because to the poster, treating women the same way as I would treat my mother, sisters, daughter is apparently offensive to her.

You’ll note that isn’t remotely what I said.

I said that treating women as your mother, sisters, daughters is not helpful if you treat them differently based on being women.

To use an example - I grew up in a conservative environment. Boys were raised to go out and get jobs; girls were raised to be stay at home mothers. The men there treating other young women like they treated their daughters wouldn’t have helped there, because they treated their own daughters like their jobs and plans weren’t important (because their role in life was to be at home).

 

[JimR-OCDS]

My parents are dead and I’m older than your brother.

Sorry if the facts of what life was like back in the 50’s and 60’s sounds condescending, but that’s the way it was.

Women pay less for insurance ?

I recall women protesting because their life insurance rates were less than men, making them less equal. I’m sure you won’t believe this, because it was so ridiculous, it never went anywhere, but it happened.

I agree insurance rates have more to do with statistics than sex, but the statistics are based on the liability for insurance companies carry for men and women. So, the difference is gender driven.

Jim

 

[Pup7]

However, I cannot typically have the same type of casual relationships with women as I do with men. Why? Because, I never develop romantic feelings for men. I’m married, and I’m someone who has historically fallen for girls/women fast. Sometimes I catch myself getting too close to a woman and work, so I have to distance myself. Otherwise it becomes a near occasion of sin for me because I will start having thoughts or dreams.

That has nothing to do with me or any other woman, though. My best friends are male, and my husband knows it. His best friend is actually female. It’s pretty fantastic because she tells him off for me and my friends do the same. (But it seems they usually take my side!)

I find the notion that men don’t treat women the same in professional situations as offensive. Are there SOME men (maybe even a lot of men) who are jerks and treat women as less and sexually harasse them? Yes. And they are disgusting. But it’s not all nor most.

Who said that? Not me. I have no such “notion”.

You’re talking as though I ascribe to the concept of “every man is a predator”, which couldn’t be farther from the truth. I don’t. I think men get the short end of the stick most of the time because I think many women DO think they’re just one bad night away from being a rapist. I have friends who are ranking officers - commanders - who are now almost terrified of having to counsel a female subordinate with a door closed even though it’s part of their job. It’s like they want four witnesses these days. That’s just wrong.

You ought to be able to say “hey, you look nice” because it’s nice to get and give a compliment, but you’re right, you can’t - and that’s wrong. Even I think twice about it because you never know how someone else might interpret it.

 

[Pup7]

Women pay less for insurance ?

Yep. Car, life, health (except for pregnancy riders). Our rates are lower because we are a lower risk.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Yes, I already said that.

I’m answering the question you asked, as to why that is the case.

Jim

 

[Pup7]

Sorry if the facts of what life was like back in the 50’s and 60’s sounds condescending, but that’s the way it was.

It wasn’t the “facts”. It was “you weren’t even born yet” and “you’re a few years younger than my daughter”. That’s somewhat irrelevant as I’m an adult, not a child.

I don’t find facts condescending. But there’s a darker side to history that you’re either not acknowledging or are just not aware of.

 

[phil19034]

phil19034:

However, I cannot typically have the same type of casual relationships with women as I do with men. Why? Because, I never develop romantic feelings for men. I’m married, and I’m someone who has historically fallen for girls/women fast. Sometimes I catch myself getting too close to a woman and work, so I have to distance myself. Otherwise it becomes a near occasion of sin for me because I will start having thoughts or dreams.

That has nothing to do with me or any other woman, though. My best friends are male, and my husband knows it. His best friend is actually female. It’s pretty fantastic because she tells him off for me and my friends do the same. (But it seems they usually take my side!)

I find the notion that men don’t treat women the same in professional situations as offensive. Are there SOME men (maybe even a lot of men) who are jerks and treat women as less and sexually harasse them? Yes. And they are disgusting. But it’s not all nor most.

Who said that? Not me. I have no such “notion”.

You’re talking as though I ascribe to the concept of “every man is a predator”, which couldn’t be farther from the truth. I don’t. I think men get the short end of the stick most of the time because I think many women DO think they’re just one bad night away from being a rapist. I have friends who are ranking officers - commanders - who are now almost terrified of having to counsel a female subordinate with a door closed.

I’m not talking about you. I’m talking about the poster that I was responding to you.

I haven’t taken exception to anything you posted. Just the poster who directly said chivalry is sexual harassment

 

[pnewton]

Sorry if the facts of what life was like back in the 50’s and 60’s sounds condescending, but that’s the way it was.

Really, you should be nice to the ladies here.

(duck, run, hope everyone laughs at what is a clear attempt at humor?)

 

[JimR-OCDS]

It wasn’t the “facts”. It was “you weren’t even born yet” and “you’re a few years younger than my daughter”. That’s somewhat irrelevant as I’m an adult, not a child.

Your ego is speaking here.

You weren’t born, so it’s reasonable that you wouldn’t know about the things I posted. It’s not a put down, but an understanding in how life was different than what you read or heard about for that time…

Jim

 

[Pup7]

I’m answering the question you asked, as to why that is the case.

I didn’t ask a question about that. I knew that already.

Explaining it to my husband was a riot, though, when we first got married because he wasn’t aware of that.

 

[Pup7]

It wasn’t the “facts”. It was “you weren’t even born yet” and “you’re a few years younger than my daughter”. That’s somewhat irrelevant as I’m an adult, not a child.

Really? So my parents, now in their eighties (well my dad would be 87 if he were living), wouldn’t have told me accurate information about what life was like in the 1950s? They met and married in the 1950s. My brother, born in the early 1950s, wouldn’t know what life was like in the late 1960s when he started dating?

History books are inaccurate as well?

That’s not ego in the least.

(My apologies to my brother. He’s 63. LOL.)

 

[AlNg]

I am aware that the #Metoo and #Time’sup movements are about sexual assault and sexual harassment of women as well as rape that ought and should be stopped at all costs.

Yes. It is true that many women have been raped and nothing was done about it. Take for example, WWII. In her book, Crimes Unspoken, Miriam Gebhardt details how American and other allied soldiers raped young German girls and shot dead those who fought the rape. And she gives testimony from several German Catholic priests. In her estimation it was more than 100,000 German women and young girls who were raped by American soldiers. German women were found shot in the head in the American barracks.
Look, I know Hitler was bad. But why did these American soldiers (and other allied soldiers) take revenge on these girls and women for what Hitler did? All together, Gebhardt says that at the very least, 860,000 women and girls were raped in total by American, French, British and Russian soldiers and very little was done to stop it. Where was the justice for these German girls. Why did America let these American soldiers (and other allied soldiers) get away with raping these women and girls, some as young as nine years old? It is not right for American soldiers to take revenge on German women and young girls for decisions made by Hitler and his generals.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

It is in the fact that being told about something and living through it are different things

I’ve read a lot about WWI and WWII, but even though I served in the Marines long after, I really don’t have the knowledge about those time compared to the people who went through it.

I’m not trying to offend you, which you seem to be reacting to.

Jim

 

[Pup7]

You’re missing what annoyed me.

I’m not annoyed by not knowing.

I’m annoyed by the way you presented it. I’m 44. I’m an adult.

As I said, history disagrees with you that everyone’s life was rosy in the 1950s and 1960s. That was your experience. Others had a different one. Women of the era weren’t always as lucky as June Cleaver.

I’ve read a lot about WWI and WWII, but even though I served in the Marines long after, I really don’t have the knowledge about those time compared to the people who went through it.

This isn’t helping you. I don’t need continued clarifications. That’s not the issue here.

Your telling me about it is no different from my parents telling me about it. Same thing, right? So I know what they’ve told me. I know what I’ve read. Not everyone reports the same experiences.

I grew up in the US in the 1980s. I know what life was like here. But I’ve read about what life was like in the USSR in the 1980s. Not the same experience.

Same situation here. Has nothing to do with living through it. Your perception of the era is colored by your experience, and it’s as if you’re assuming it was the same across the board for everyone. It wasn’t.

 

[DarkLight]

I’m not talking about you. I’m talking about the poster that I was responding to you.

I haven’t taken exception to anything you posted. Just the poster who directly said chivalry is sexual harassment

Dude, I’m right here and I already pointed out that you’re misrepresenting what I said.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

No, I’m not. For instance, many of those participating in the #MeToo movement are those who indeed HAVE consented, but then later on regretted it and then claimed it was rape.

Many? Source?

but it spawned a bizarre discussion saying that men are just intrinsically rapists and that rape can mean anything.

Again source? Having followed the #MeToo movement since it went viral and earlier ones like #YesAllWomen the message of all men being rapists has never been a part of them. Just because some rogue feminist may have said something like that some 30 years ago doesn’t mean that it is the foundation or the logical outcome of the #metoo movement.