Opinion on the #Metoo movement

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OsculeturMeOsculo said:
It seems distasteful to be arguing about manners.
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It seems distasteful that people let doors slam in the face of others. (It’s also equally rude when you DO hold that door and the person waltzes through like you just did them some sort of favor. I usually say “you’re welcome” whether they’re polite or not.)

Saying something is rude isn’t an argument.
 
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I think she was actually splitting hairs over the definition of “ad hominem”.
 
TheAmazingGrace said:
Hold the door open for everyone. Treat it like a basic act of courtesy toward all people rather than a display of “chivalry.” There’s no reason for it to be a gendered thing.
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Women hold the door for me here. It is kind of our courtesy thing. I have seen it done pretty much all the time regardless of race, age, or gender. Yet on the other hand, there are other areas where actions of respect are more toward women. I hardly see where such actions have any bearing on treating women inappropriately.
 
I’m going to assume that this thread descended into arguing about splitting checks and holding doors out of a natural flow of conversation and not any belief that those things somehow cause women to be treated out of accordance with their dignity, harassed or assaulted.

I find the comparison of now to the 50s and 60s an interesting topic but historically short sighted. Men have “had dominion over” women ever since the fall, not as a holy way of living but as a terrible consequence of the fall. Hardened hearts reject and trash the gift of the partner God gave man so he may no longer be alone.

Holy Mary, New Eve, Mother of all Believers help us restore your daughters to their place of dignity, our different natures acting in complementarity, side by side with man in mutual self-sacrifice.
 
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TheAmazingGrace said:
Sexual abuse comes in many forms, and shouldering potential/actual victims with the responsibility of avoiding it is unjust.
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I would say this is a little demeaning to women. We even teach children to be cautious (stranger danger) to decrease (the word the poster used to whom you responded) the chance of being attacked. I think women are as capable as the children we teach. We do not need to perpetuate the stereotype of the helpless female.
 
On paper that sounds perfectly fine. In reality, it all-too often feeds the “what were you wearing?” mentality.
 
I’ve already seen it. It’s a dumb excuse, because people can follow the Church’s teachings on chastity perfectly and still fall victim.
 
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TheAmazingGrace said:
Google “benevolent sexism.”
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I just did that. I was not surprised to see it came out of academia. Some things are just so absurd it takes a PhD to come up with. The phrase, in its very nature, is an oxymoron, a “good bad,” or a “virtuous evil.” Threads like this just confirm me in my chauvinism, at least as this generation would define the term. I believe, like St. John Paul, there is a difference in the genders, and it does affect me and my interactions just a tad.

As to what bearing this has to do with the topic, it has zilch. Chivalry has nothing to do with sexually harassing women, much less sexually assaulting them. The very idea is absurd (again, only a PhD could make such a connection).
 
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phil19034 said:
There is a documentary called “The Dating Project” that has received rave reviews in Secular, Catholic and Protestant circles. It was actually co produced by Catholic and Protestant film ministries. I havent seen the whole thing yet, but I’ve heard it’s very accurate https://www.thedatingprojectmovie.com
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This is a fascinating movie. I wonder though just how much connection it has to do with the topic. After all, sexual harassment was part of the business culture long before dating became passe. I think the movie addresses a real problem, I just don’t think it is this problem.
 
Chivalry just seems so outdated though. We open doors for others now, regardless of age or sex. Most people my age split the bill or take turns paying for dates.

I don’t care for chivalry that much honestly. I can honestly live without someone opening my car door just because I’m female, lol. Some people would bring up an interesting point though. That certain actions and beliefs ultimately form our views. Chivalry can easily be one of those little factors that make people more resistant to the concept of gender equality. Perhaps that’s why older feminists were so against it (for example the concept of women being the dainty fairer sex can lead to more hostile sexism when women deviate from this view, such as a bigger, less attractive woman who is working as an engineer)
 
Lea101 said:
Chivalry can easily be one of those little factors that make people more resistant to the concept of gender equality. Perhaps that’s why older feminists were so against it (for example the concept of women being the dainty fairer sex can lead to more hostile sexism when women deviate from this view, such as a bigger, less attractive woman who is working as an engineer)
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While I understand the possibility, I really haven’s seen it. Maybe my own work environment lends itself to a greater degree of professionalism. Our women are definitely not the weaker sex.
 
phil19034 said:
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DarkLight:
I’m saying a lot of mothers and sisters and daughters don’t like being treated differently than if they were men either.
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Hmm. I was the oldest of 5. Sure there were somethings that my sisters wanted to do that we boys did. But there were plenty of other things that I did with my brothers that would have been WRONG to do with my sisters.
  1. my brothers and I got in many fights (sometimes with each other and sometimes to defend each other against other boys) should I have hit my sisters just so they could feel I treated them the same way as my brothers?
  2. when playing sports, should we have slapped the girls on their butts has hard as we could, like guys did to other guys?
  3. should the boys do “cup checks” to girls like lots of guys often did to oneother on the baseball field?
  4. should we give the girls wet willies?
  5. should we have had peeing races with our sisters to see who could pee the longest?
These are just a fraction of what boys do, esp when unchaperoned.

If mothers actually knew 1/2 of what boys do, they wouldn’t allow their daughters to date until they were 35.
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I don’t even have a son and I know boys do dumb stuff like this.

So what you’re saying is boys are 100% incapable of behaving like normal human beings, and they shouldn’t be expected to treat girls like 100% normal human beings.

You know precisely what that poster meant, so to post all this silliness is just that - it’s silly.

I don’t expect to be treated any differently in a professional environment than a man is, or any differently in a casual encounter in a store or the bank or the pharmacy than a man is.

You know exactly what that poster meant.
 
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I wouldn’t deny that there is a sexual mistreatment in the culture that has gotten that bad – who could with the establishment of contraception in the culture followed by the sexual revolution?

My issue with the #MeToo movement is that it also doesn’t take responsibility.

The loudest voices within it are those who have participated themselves. These are individuals that insist that they should be able to sleep with whomever they want whenever they want, dress however they want, and act however they want. This movement is also backed by the likes of Planned Parenthood which promotes promiscuity.

I’m not against a movement like this existing, but it has to be partnered with virtue and chastity ultimately.

MeToo has also been a tool to mistreat men. It has become part of the narrative that all men are intrinsically rapists and want to hurt men. This nonsense of pinning the genders against each other like this is diabolical.

This sort of thing has spawned the MGTOW movement (Men Going Their Own Way) which is men dismissing all women as terrible, hypergamous abusers.

As it is implemented, I don’t support the #MeToo movement until it gets its act together.

Virtue, chastity, modesty, respect, responsibility – THESE need to be promoted.
 
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gcshapero said:
I wouldn’t deny that there is a sexual mistreatment in the culture that has gotten that bad – who could with the establishment of contraception in the culture followed by the sexual revolution?
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Yeah, because things were totally peachy-keen for women before the 1960s. Snort.
 
TheAmazingGrace said:
Yeah, because things were totally peachy-keen for women before the 1960s. Snort.
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I never said they weren’t. I think it was bad long before too. Maybe you misread what I was saying.

We also have to know what relationships looked like too – divorce rates, infidelities, marriage rates, etc.
 
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You’re blaming contraception and the Sexual Revolution. Kinda dumb, considering how most of the abuses brought to light by #MeToo involved non-consensual activity (including abuse of minor children).
 
Why is it dumb to cast much blame on contraception and the sexual revolution when both of those promoted sexual activity free of responsibility and consequences?

It’s the 50th anniversary of Humanae Vitae and it prophesied exactly that.
 
gcshapero said:
Why is it dumb to cast much blame on contraception and the sexual revolution when both of those promoted sexual activity free of responsibility and consequences?
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Engaging in sexual activity outside of marriage with a willing partner is not in the same ballpark as abusing one’s power over a weaker party. You’re conflating the two for the sake of promoting your own agenda, which doesn’t do a lick of good for anyone.
 
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TheAmazingGrace said:
Engaging in sexual activity outside of marriage with a willing partner is not in the same ballpark as abusing one’s power over a weaker party.
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This is true. If I wasn’t married and had an exclusive boyfriend, that doesn’t mean that someone else has the right to attempt to exploit me.
 
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