Opinion Poll About President Bush

[koda]

Susan, I understand what you’re saying. Perhaps it just isn’t possible to run a country on a truly Christian model - because letting people, including small children, live on the streets in a nation as rich as this one isn’t Christian. Indeed, I’m sure we’re all in for some explaining. I try to help the needy - I give to the poor, I volunteer in a program to encourage kids to read, and I’m working on my Master’s so I can teach and hopefully encourage kids to appreciate their education and make it count. I live in Los Angeles and we have a lot of poor and a lot of them are minorities. We live in a 1 bedroom apt and will never be able to afford a house here. My husband, too, hates his job. BTY - I’m not able to have kids which is one reason I’m trying to work with them.

What we need to do is fund programs that enable the poor to better themselves (hate that phrase but can’t think of another one right now). But education keeps getting cut. So do school lunch programs and care for mothers with infant children. How can they ever improve their lives if we don’t help them? If they are able to work and pay taxes that helps everybody. But people need a living wage and healt care. What would you do if your husband’s employer suddenly cancelled his health care coverage so they could have bigger profits? Uncontrolled capitalism is just as bad, in its own way, as socialism (I have somewhere a quote of JPII on that and will try to find it).

Anyway, I’ll look forward to sharing more with you. Sorry so long winded. At least we want the same things, just don’t know how to get there.

 

[SusanL]

koda:

IThe fruit from the Bush tree seems to be an increase in poverty, cuts in healtcare for those who need it most, cuts to education, cuts to many social programs that the poor need desperately, a costly and unjust war in which political cronies are making millions while millions more suffer, tax cuts for the richest Americans, etc… These things do not equate to pro-life. I believe that it is just as much the job of government to take care of its citizens, especiallyl the most vulnerable. We say we are a Christian nation so we need to ban abortion and pass pro-family legislation. The above list doesn’t look too pro-family to me. It looks very pro-rich and powerful. Christ was not pro-rich or into earthly power. To me, the difference is glaring.

.

Could you give some links or other information to back up your claims? They are very generalized. Let’s not talk about the war—that subject has been beaten to death.

A funny thing about politics. If the Republicans propose a 20% increase in funding and the Democrats propose a 25% increase, the Democrats claim that the Republicans are cutting funding.

btw, everyone has benefitted by Bush’s child tax credits but they don’t get talked about much.

Christ wasn’t pro-rich but he wasn’t anti-rich either. You’d be surprised by the amount of anti-rich prejudices there are. Some people figure that the only way they got rich was by being dishonest.

I’ll try to be careful and sift through the stuff the Republicans tell us. You sift through the Democrats stuff, too. Sound reasonable?

 

[CatQuilt]

CatholicChef:

Do you watch the news???

Fox News, yes. Dan Rather (since retired after Rather-gate) and the rest of the biased media, ABCNBCCBSPBSCNNMSNBC, no.



As we approach the 4th anniversary of September 11th, I can’t imagine anyone else I’d want in the White House.

God Bless America, land that I love…

 

[CatQuilt]

Bella3502:

Bush is not a racist…

He is just not very smart. He says stupid things and they come back to haunt him in a stupid way.

He’s stupid, alright. He’s got that Texas-twang, just like Dr Phil.

He’s stupid, alright. He graduated from Yale (with a higher GPA than Kerry) and went on to get his MBA from Harvard…that was a cake walk, I’m sure.

He stupid, alright. He flew jets. Anyone can do that…

He threw out the first pitch in the 2001 playoffs in Yankee Stadium, threw a fastball from the mound to the catcher. John Kerry bounced his throw to the plate from the foot of the mound, last year.

His tax cuts shortened the recession that started in late Spring 2000 (and which was exacerbated by those planes flying into those buildings 4 years ago).



Why do I bother? Go sit in a corner and hate him but just remember, the world’s not safe enough to vote for a Democrat.

 

[SusanL]

koda:

Susan, I understand what you’re saying. Perhaps it just isn’t possible to run a country on a truly Christian model - because letting people, including small children, live on the streets in a nation as rich as this one isn’t Christian. Indeed, I’m sure we’re all in for some explaining. I try to help the needy - I give to the poor, I volunteer in a program to encourage kids to read, and I’m working on my Master’s so I can teach and hopefully encourage kids to appreciate their education and make it count. I live in Los Angeles and we have a lot of poor and a lot of them are minorities. We live in a 1 bedroom apt and will never be able to afford a house here. My husband, too, hates his job. BTY - I’m not able to have kids which is one reason I’m trying to work with them.

What we need to do is fund programs that enable the poor to better themselves (hate that phrase but can’t think of another one right now). But education keeps getting cut. So do school lunch programs and care for mothers with infant children. How can they ever improve their lives if we don’t help them? If they are able to work and pay taxes that helps everybody. But people need a living wage and healt care. What would you do if your husband’s employer suddenly cancelled his health care coverage so they could have bigger profits? Uncontrolled capitalism is just as bad, in its own way, as socialism (I have somewhere a quote of JPII on that and will try to find it).

Anyway, I’ll look forward to sharing more with you. Sorry so long winded. At least we want the same things, just don’t know how to get there.

A very interesting post. I’m pondering what you’re saying. I’ll be thinking about this today so maybe I’ll come back with some well-thought out ideas. Anyways, here’s off the cuff.

Families on the streets with children. To tell you the truth ( and I always will ), I don’t know that much about welfare. I know there are govt run programs and different church run programs. A lot of them aimed at getting families on their feet and working.

I do what I can to help these programs as well as teach my children to give for the love of God. I know that the people who run these programs have told me about psychological, mental, social, spiritual and moral problems a lot of these people have. How do we balance giving the aid with helping them take control of their own lives as well? This is a very difficult balance and it goes way back before President Bush. I think that it must be very difficult to budget the govt funds among all the crises. Here we have Hurricane Katrina and that is going to wipe out a lot more funds. (Not that we don’t need to do it—just that there is going less money elsewhere).

I think that it’s wonderful that you’re working so hard to help the children. We need more people with good Christian hearts like yours.

I have to think some more. I’m not feeling good today so my brain cells are both down a little.

I’m long-winded, too. Can you tell? (LOL) Good conversation!

 

[tcay584]

Maybe I’m a weird one, but I like Pres. Bush, and I liked Pres. Clinton, and Carter, and Reagan. I believe each one has brought something to the Presidency that has benefitted the United States. I’ve seen great things in all these men. None have been perfect, but I’d be hard pressed to demonize any of them. I don’t think I could do any better…ok, I guarantee I couldn’t do any better. I think it’s a tough job, and one in which you will never please everybody, no matter how hard you try. It’s not a popularity contest.

I often wonder what would go on if all the ex-presidents got together for a beer or twenty. What fun the flies on the wall would have!

 

[maggiec]

There is really no answer here that I can vote with. My feelings about our president have nothing to do with liking him. I feel he has let America down. He has given the republican party a black eye.
maggiec

 

[aimee]

I am proud of our President and support how he is handling things so far.

 

[Annunciata]

I fully support him and always did . We should all be praying for him and everyone who was affected by Katrina instead of of answering some silly poll.

 

[SusanL]

I fully support him. He has a tremendously difficult job under the best of circumstances. This country has 2 major threats: terrorists and nature.

I don’t see at all where he has let us down.

 

[koda]

SusanL:

Could you give some links or other information to back up your claims? They are very generalized. Let’s not talk about the war—that subject has been beaten to death.

A funny thing about politics. If the Republicans propose a 20% increase in funding and the Democrats propose a 25% increase, the Democrats claim that the Republicans are cutting funding.

btw, everyone has benefitted by Bush’s child tax credits but they don’t get talked about much.

Christ wasn’t pro-rich but he wasn’t anti-rich either. You’d be surprised by the amount of anti-rich prejudices there are. Some people figure that the only way they got rich was by being dishonest.

I’ll try to be careful and sift through the stuff the Republicans tell us. You sift through the Democrats stuff, too. Sound reasonable?

Hi Susan:

I actually have some of those specifics and I promise I’ll get them to you. You’re right: everybody puts a spin on things. It’s really crazy when you think about it. And right again that we should try to sift what he hear. What’s scary is the people who put this stuff together are experts at punching our buttons - then we punch each other and nothing gets done. I took some marketing and public relations classes in college - people just don’t realize how they are being manipulated.

Anyway, I’m soo busy right now. Had my vocation committee meeting at 10, Mass at 11, secular Augustinian meeting at 12, then grocery. Had to study have school tomorrow. Why do kids have all the energy when it’s us adults who really need it???

God Bless

 

[Petergee]

SusanL:

Christ wasn’t pro-rich but he wasn’t anti-rich either. You’d be surprised by the amount of anti-rich prejudices there are. Some people figure that the only way they got rich was by being dishonest.

Hmm, let’s see…
“Woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your consolation.”
“I tell you most solemnly, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven.”
(To the rich young man) “Sell all that you own, and give the money to the poor.”

Seems that after the Pharisees, Jesus was more anti-rich than anti- anyone else.

 

[Petergee]

SusanL:

First: I’m not condemning you, so don’t worry.

The problem with what you’re describing seems to be a desire for socialism. Socialism would be terrible for this country. The Federal govt is responsible for security, keeping our economy on an even keel and a few other things that I’m tired to think of right now.

There is a misconception about taxes. President Bush has given tax credits to everyone and not overwhelming to the rich as some people tend to think.

What happens when a lower tax is imposed on cashing stocks, mutual funds and bonds? People cash them and spend them.

What happens when you raise the tax on stocks, mutual funds and bonds? People keep their money tied up in them and there is less money in the market.

The rich pay a **huge huge huge **amount in taxes.

I heard a story recently. Let me see if I can get this right.

Three men went to a restaurant for dinner. A rich man, a middle class man and a poor man. They each ordered their own dinner. After the dinner, the middle class man pays for his dinner, the rich man pays for his dinner and the poor man kills the rich man for not paying for his dinner, too. (Probably a bad rendition of a good story–sorry, but the essence is there).

I’m for helping the poor but not so much that you take away their iniative to work and earn their own money.

We’re not rich, believe me. My husband goes everyday to a job he hates. I’m at home with the kids but I work part time as a church organist. I was giving piano lessons before but, I’ll tell ya, they take so much money out of what I earn (because I’m considered self-employed), that I don’t see the sense in teaching anymore. I am a trained musician. My husband and I are middle class. The Democrats are fighting very hard to take even more of our money away from us and hand it over to someone else.

New York State is notoriously Democrat and tax-crazy. Western New York has been sinking under the weight of tax burdens for decades. People are leaving here in droves to go South because of taxes.

More in the next post.

I think you are being very unfair to Koda. First she didn’t even mention taxes. You seem to accuse her of saying to be Christian and prolife Bush must increase taxes. She said only that it was unchristian and antilife to cut programs to the poor and to wage war in Iraq. Just cutting a small proportion from the money spent on the war would pay back the cuts Bush has made in programs for the poor many times over.

Secondly, your “story” stinks. Neither Koda nor anyone else was suggesting anything remotely like “It’s OK for the poor to KILL the rich if they don’t pay for their food.”

Thirdly, the question was about Bush, not about whether the Demacrats are doing a good job running New York.

Re the machine-guns, in any other civilized first world country there would be no machine-guns in the community in the first place, so they couldn’t have been stolen. Sadly Bush like most of his predecessors is putty in the hands of the gun nuts. At least the shooters and looters showed “initiative”!!

 

[Petergee]

Sorry, Koda did mention “tax cuts for the richest Americans” but that was just one item on the anti-life anti-Christian list. Compared to those in other first-world countries, the richest Americans paid extremely low taxes even before Bush’s further generosity to them at the expense of the poor, sick and disadvantaged.

 

[tcay584]

Petergee:

Hmm, let’s see…
“Woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your consolation.”
“I tell you most solemnly, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven.”
(To the rich young man) “Sell all that you own, and give the money to the poor.”

Seems that after the Pharisees, Jesus was more anti-rich than anti- anyone else.

Oh come on…He was talking about people who put money before God. Money is not the root of all evil…love of money is. Don’t take scripture out of context.

 

[2shelbys]

…the richest Americans paid extremely low taxes even before Bush’s further generosity to them at the expense of the poor, sick and disadvantaged

Wow, I did not think anyone still believed this propaganda. Stop listening to the politicians (especially the socialist Democrats) and check out the various Taxpayer watch groups for yourself. The richest 10% of the people in this country pay over 80% of the tax burden. All you have to do is look at the tax code to see that the more you make the higher the percentage you pay. This notion that the rich pay nothing and the poor and middle class pay everything is nonsense.

 

[2shelbys]

Re the machine-guns, in any other civilized first world country there would be no machine-guns in the community in the first place, so they couldn’t have been stolen.

Do you mean countries like Israel and Switzerland where EVERY household is required to have an automatic weapon as part of national defense (and crime rates are very low), or countries like England and Austrailia where gun bans have resulted in massive increases in crimes committed with guns. The UK Guardian had a story just a couple of months ago about the alarming increase of crimes involving the use of automatic weapons since the ban was put in place.

Although automatic weapons are legal in most states they are very expensive and the red tape involved is staggering. As a result, most gun stores do not bother with them. The percentage of gun stores that are Class 3 is miniscule. The simple fact is that automatic weapons are FAR cheaper and easier to get illegally in ANY country than they are to get from an American gun store.

 

[MikeWM]

2shelbys:

Wow, I did not think anyone still believed this propaganda. Stop listening to the politicians (especially the socialist Democrats)

The Deomcrats aren’t socialist. That is propaganda.

and check out the various Taxpayer watch groups for yourself. The richest 10% of the people in this country pay over 80% of the tax burden.

Which, as has been argued elsewhere, means absolutely nothing without a lot of context. How about we limit the top salary in a company to be three times the mean company salary? That will get that 80% figure right down. Given that, do you think that 80% figure out of context means anything?

All you have to do is look at the tax code to see that the more you make the higher the percentage you pay.

Progressive taxation The fairest system, ever since Adam Smith.

This notion that the rich pay nothing and the poor and middle class pay everything is nonsense.

Yes. The notion that the rich pay less as a percentage of their total income in tax than the poor or middle class is entirely true though.

Mike

 

[SusanL]

Look, my fellow posters. This thread is going off in a million different directions. I suspect that I could very easily slip into being uncharitable again and as I already have to go to confession for losing my temper before, I’m going to bow out.

Please remember, everyone. It’s not what goes into our mouths that causes us to sin but what comes out.

I have already caused Our Lord enough grief with my tongue. I don’t want to cause him anymore.

God bless you, whether we agree or not. One in Christ.

 

[2shelbys]

Hello Mike,

The Deomcrats aren’t socialist. That is propaganda.

No it is not. If you understand what socialism is, government control of everything, no personal responsibility, etc. you can not deny that those at the top of the Democrat machine (and their biggest contributors) are socialist. Many of them do not even deny it. To be fair, many Republicans are not much better.

How about we limit the top salary in a company to be three times the mean company salary? That will get that 80% figure right down. Given that, do you think that 80% figure out of context means anything?

This does not even make sense. The figures are what they are. “What ifs” have no basis in the reality of the situation and therefore are meaningless.

Progressive taxation The fairest system, ever since Adam Smith.

You are right about that. The only “fair” (and simplest) way to tax is to tax everyone at the same rate, period.

Yes. The notion that the rich pay less as a percentage of their total income in tax than the poor or middle class is entirely true though.

Not in my experience. I personally know people from the top of the scale to the bottom and the amount (and percentage) that the top people pay is frightening. Those at the bottom pay little or nothing. The one advantage that the top earners do have is the ability to hire professionals to figure out the jungle that is our tax code and make use of every deduction and loophole. And there you have a further argument for a flat rate. Have you ever read Title 26 (the Tax Code)? There is not a more deceptive, confusing mass of legalistic garbage in existance.