Oprah: Armstrong admitted doping

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Are you suggesting weight lifters and body builders fair better with steroids? Light use monitored for gain, but not used in monitored competition where its prohibited? Its prohibited for good reason.

I agree contact can accelerate and weight also. Nevertheless all of this is extreme cardio work. Natural progression through hard work is the safest path from my perspective.
 
GaryTaylor said:
WHEREAS, from a medical perspective, any potential gain in physical development or athletic performance which may be attained through anabolic steroid use is far outweighed by the risk of severe negative consequences including violent behavior and addiction; 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
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I believe that to be a tall-tale. The medical community will recite the benefits of abortion, condom use, and as a child in the 1980’s I distinctly recall the medical community publicly stating all their scientific tests showed no indication that steroids caused increased muscle mass in bodybuilders. Their publicly stated conclusion: it was all in the mind of the bodybuilder.

I never had any “roid-rage” and the only person I saw go through something akin to that was already a somewhat volatile Marine. Really, I feel it is fair to say out of all the Marines I knew using steroids 99.9% never went psycho. No one dropped over dead. No one was rushed to the E.R.

Alright, Marines were routinely getting in far more trouble from being intoxicated.

If anything… the risks of alcohol consumption outweigh the benefits. But apparently even Jesus made wine out of water for a bunch of drunk people.

I would almost bet that doctor (one of the M.D.'s interviewed in the documentary) in the documentary Bigger Stronger Faster interviewed (Carlon Colker) used steroids at least once, for a brief period, in his life. The man is an M.D., bodybuilder, MMA (Mixed Martial Artist), and entrepreneur. I think it’s fair to say on the average mean level of fitness, intellectual pursuit, and career ambition the man is head and above the “average” American.

I wasn’t engaged in organized sports when I used steroids (which for only a brief period). But I would like to clear something up. Those I knew using typically were the most serious weight lifters in the company. The vast majority of those not using went out to get drunk on their off time, or sat around, but were not out running on their off time or pumping iron like me.

I’m not going to suggest there are no side effects to steroids use. But there is to other drugs too. And there are far worse drugs out there people are on. I’ve met veterans in the V.A. on prescribed drugs for PTSD that have constant (literally) tremors from the medication.

I remember in the past online a number of U.S. military veterans got outraged at me stating that there is a lot of steroid use in the military and that around 25% of my own company–by my approximation–was on them. They would prefer to think–or give the image at least–that it is maybe only around 0.1% if any at all involved in using these substances.

And I don’t regard killing animals to consume their flesh and add protein to your diet as something more ethical than using steroids. People eating at McDonalds and supporting the mass slaughter of animals for our ease and convenience have no leg to stand on judging professional athletes that use “juice” as lacking Spartan qualities and being lazy.

Dr. Carlon Colker. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlon_Colker

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...er_talking.jpg/300px-CarlonColker_talking.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped....jpg/200px-Colker_training_shot_rolling_2.jpg
Carlon M. Colker, M.D., FACN (born June 21, 1965) is an American physician, author, network reality TV personality, public speaker, and dietary supplement industry consultant. He runs a private practice and consulting clinic in Greenwich, Connecticut (Peak Wellness, Inc.), and is currently affiliated with the dietary supplement company Atlas Therapeutics. He has also served as a researcher, product developer, and spokesman for other supplement companies including LifeVantage, ITV Ventures, Cytodyne Technologies, Muscletech Research and Development, Metabolife International, and Vital Basics. Colker appeared as a guest physician and fitness trainer on the ABC reality TV program Shaq’s Big Challenge in 2007,[1] and has served as a health consultant for various TV and print media sources.
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Colker was born to parents of Russian Jewish and Lithuanian descent. Both of them were artists. His father, Edward Colker, was a graduate of NYU, a noted lithographer, a maker of rare hand-bound books, and a Guggenheim Fellowship recipient.[14] His mother, Elaine Galen, was a graduate of the University of Pennsylvania and herself a noted abstract painter. As a child, Colker grew up around the diversity of his parent’s art world while being exposed to their penchant for healthy living, organic foods, and vitamin supplements.
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He competed in a number of sports and was a junior league boxer up until his 16th birthday, when he sustained a double epigastric hernia during a fight. The injury necessitated surgical repair and put him on the rehabilitative track of structured exercise and weight lifting. This experience led him to competitive bodybuilding where he participated in a number of competitions including the NPO Mr. Apollo, NPC Mr. Long Island, NPC Mr. Metropolitan and East Coast Regional Bodybuilding Championships[citation needed]. With his interest in weightlifting grew an equal passion for mixed martial arts (MMA).
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So, my only point here, if you’re going to go to peer-reviewed sources and medical science as the Second Coming of Christ with infallible teachings, then at least quote them on the benefits of abortion and condom use and all their views of the ethics involved in that, rather than be selective about what you trust them on.

In the 1980’s they couldn’t even figure out steroids cause muscle growth whereas those using steroids for bodybuilding purposes already knew it from years of trial and error in that community.
 
TimeEntrance said:
I believe that to be a tall-tale. The medical community will recite the benefits of abortion, condom use, and as a child in the 1980’s I distinctly recall the medical community publicly stating all their scientific tests showed no indication that steroids caused increased muscle mass in bodybuilders. Their publicly stated conclusion: it was all in the mind of the bodybuilder.

I never had any “roid-rage” and the only person I saw go through something akin to that was already a somewhat volatile Marine. Really, I feel it is fair to say out of all the Marines I knew using steroids 99.9% never went psycho. No one dropped over dead. No one was rushed to the E.R.

Alright, Marines were routinely getting in far more trouble from being intoxicated.

If anything… the risks of alcohol consumption outweigh the benefits. But apparently even Jesus made wine out of water for a bunch of drunk people.

I would almost bet that doctor (one of the M.D.'s interviewed in the documentary) in the documentary Bigger Stronger Faster interviewed (Carlon Colker) used steroids at least once, for a brief period, in his life. The man is an M.D., bodybuilder, MMA (Mixed Martial Artist), and entrepreneur. I think it’s fair to say on the average mean level of fitness, intellectual pursuit, and career ambition the man is head and above the “average” American.

I wasn’t engaged in organized sports when I used steroids (which for only a brief period). But I would like to clear something up. Those I knew using typically were the most serious weight lifters in the company. The vast majority of those not using went out to get drunk on their off time, or sat around, but were not out running on their off time or pumping iron like me.

I’m not going to suggest there are no side effects to steroids use. But there is to other drugs too. And there are far worse drugs out there people are on. I’ve met veterans in the V.A. on prescribed drugs for PTSD that have constant (literally) tremors from the medication.

I remember in the past online a number of U.S. military veterans got outraged at me stating that there is a lot of steroid use in the military and that around 25% of my own company–by my approximation–was on them. They would prefer to think–or give the image at least–that it is maybe only around 0.1% if any at all involved in using these substances.

And I don’t regard killing animals to consume their flesh and add protein to your diet as something more ethical than using steroids. People eating at McDonalds and supporting the mass slaughter of animals for our ease and convenience have no leg to stand on judging professional athletes that use “juice” as lacking Spartan qualities and being lazy.

Dr. Carlon Colker. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlon_Colker

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...er_talking.jpg/300px-CarlonColker_talking.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped....jpg/200px-Colker_training_shot_rolling_2.jpg

So, my only point here, if you’re going to go to peer-reviewed sources and medical science as the Second Coming of Christ with infallible teachings, then at least quote them on the benefits of abortion and condom use and all their views of the ethics involved in that, rather than be selective about what you trust them on.

In the 1980’s they couldn’t even figure out steroids cause muscle growth whereas those using steroids for bodybuilding purposes already knew it from years of trial and error in that community.
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Solid post
 
Saw this as a news story about last summer, now this is a blog entry but tells the same story:
Army Studies Workout Supplements After Deaths – Jack3d – OxyElite Pro
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William P. O’Donnell/The New York Times
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Dietary supplements like Jack3d and OxyElite Pro were removed from military bases.
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Both soldiers died last year after having heart attacks during fitness exercises, according to a spokesman for the Army’s assistant secretary of defense for health affairs.
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With names like Jack3d and OxyElite Pro, these supplements are popular with athletes because they contain an ingredient, known as **dimethylamylamine or DMAA, **advertised to increase energy, concentration and metabolism. The products are best sellers among fitness buffs at stores like GNC and the Vitamin Shoppe, as well as on Web sites like bodybuilding.com.
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superiorhockeynutrition.com/army-studies-workout-supplements-after-deaths-jack3d-oxyelite-pro/

That DMAA actually comes from all things, Geranium but the US FDA hasn’t outlawed Jack3d yet, Australia additionally has taken some steps against the pre-workout formula.

I guess people would say overall, it’s safe, that you have had millions use it without incident, that’s what the makers said and that’s probably true.

We also have the strange cases of “energy drinks” now coming to the fore as being dangerous probably in a very miniscule amount of cases. Afterall, they say even water can often do someone in, think I’ve heard that.

Still, sounds like the Army now has been removed Jack3d from sale on Army bases and that’s legal. Perhaps there have been developments since the story was published.
 
PrayRosary said:
Solid post
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Colker I’ve just learned has a product he’s pushing called Myo-T12 that may or may not live up to the hype. I’m hazarding a guess from lurking on some bodybuilding forums discussing his product (and research) that it’s probably more a gimmick.

But this protein I’ve just learned about today called myostatin apparently has some medical scientists and pharmaceutical companies interested in it. Apparently this protein stops muscle growth. If pharmaceutical companies figure out a way to inhibit myostatin then this could potentially be something bigger than steroids.

One of my biggest beefs with steroids is that after you come off them eventually you lose a lot of your gains (muscle size; strength). I’m not expert and maybe I’m wrong but I’ve always said you’ll lose about 50% of your gains. On the positive side you keep 50% of those gains.

So, in the long term, in my opinion, it doesn’t seem worth it to invest too much money and time in using steroids. Not if you want to keep 100% or close to 100% of your gains.

This is where being natural to me has the edge.

But learning how to inhibit myostatin is a whole nother game. Best I can tell from what I read is if we could do that then we could literally grow lean muscle mass and strength without even lifting or working out. You certainly can’t do that with steroids.
 
TimeEntrance said:
I believe that to be a tall-tale.
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The one point doesn’t invalidate the argument and validate your belief. Your personal understanding here is only as relevant as mine. Lets be clear about that.

The “point” is its banned in specific realms. And for many reasons, most notable is one being health.
 
TimeEntrance said:
One of my biggest beefs with steroids is that after you come off them eventually you lose a lot of your gains (muscle size; strength). I’m not expert and maybe I’m wrong but I’ve always said you’ll lose about 50% of your gains. On the positive side you keep 50% of those gains.
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This isn’t of issue. What is of issue is the cycle of rapid gain. Which connects to the point of we are “assuming” how one achieves this. All would like to suggest like Barry Bonds they are using “Cream”. Absolutely false and simply a means to minimize and justify.

Called cheating in other words, also.
 
There are people working to clean up professional cycling, including a true American Tor de France champion worthy of international respect… Greg LeMond.

bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/20602191

Imagine you are the first person from your neck of the woods to be good at something. Not just good, but great. It would be nice, wouldn’t it?
You would be forever marked out as special, out of the ordinary, a pioneer.
Imagine then what it would feel like if somebody else from your neighbourhood came along and did it better.

You would feel a little less special, wouldn’t you? Particularly if the guy who had surpassed your achievements then accused you of being jealous.
Three-time Tour de France champion Greg LeMond does not need to imagine because he knows what it feels like.

The “guy” is Lance Armstrong. Armstrong: the man who had indirectly brought LeMond to London, where we met on Monday.

Greg LeMond on Lance Armstrong
What I wanted to know was what it felt like now that, a decade later, the man who had eclipsed him had been revealed as a fraud, a bully, a cheat and a liar.
“Not as good as it should,” said LeMond, with a weariness that could not be blamed on jet-lag. "I would much rather see an American seven-time Tour de France winner there too, because I had a commercial interest in seeing that through my bike company.
“It would have been good for me to see him as a champion, but it wasn’t a true story and this has been a huge blow for cycling.”
 
I feel bad for those who didn’t take PED’s. They were denied their opportunity to win on a level playing field by those who cheated.

As repugnant as Armstrong’s cheating is, I am more repulsed by the way he bullied and smeared those who told the truth.
 
rlg94086 said:
There are people working to clean up professional cycling, including a true American Tor de France champion worthy of international respect… Greg LeMond.

bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/20602191

Imagine you are the first person from your neck of the woods to be good at something. Not just good, but great. It would be nice, wouldn’t it?
You would be forever marked out as special, out of the ordinary, a pioneer.
Imagine then what it would feel like if somebody else from your neighbourhood came along and did it better.

You would feel a little less special, wouldn’t you? Particularly if the guy who had surpassed your achievements then accused you of being jealous.
Three-time Tour de France champion Greg LeMond does not need to imagine because he knows what it feels like.

The “guy” is Lance Armstrong. Armstrong: the man who had indirectly brought LeMond to London, where we met on Monday.

Greg LeMond on Lance Armstrong
What I wanted to know was what it felt like now that, a decade later, the man who had eclipsed him had been revealed as a fraud, a bully, a cheat and a liar.
“Not as good as it should,” said LeMond, with a weariness that could not be blamed on jet-lag. "I would much rather see an American seven-time Tour de France winner there too, because I had a commercial interest in seeing that through my bike company.
“It would have been good for me to see him as a champion, but it wasn’t a true story and this has been a huge blow for cycling.”
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It can be said with certainty that Greg Lemond is the greatest American cyclist of all time.
 
Trek Bicycles are from Wisconsin, or at least the company is there. Lance always won on Treks, Lemond had his own bike line (which I think look very handsome, Buenos Aires was the name of one make ) but I think Trek marketed them.

So these two clashed at Trek, Lance gave Trek a really big ride, everyone wanted to have a Trek. You’d see so many people riding a Trek and when Lance was winning the Tour, one could walk into a bicycle shop selling Treks and it was just the big thing. A lot of money must have changed hands over Treks.

Greg Lemond famously was in a hunting accident, he was shot indeed but made a comeback from that. He’s been in a number of feuds, too bad. Yes, he seems like a nice guy overall.

Lemond last won without looking it up, about 1991 and then came Indurain, a multi-tour winner and at the time was when EPO hit the “peloton” and Greg couldn’t keep up and Lemond retired.

It was one thing when in the 1980s, a person would take “speed”, methamphetamine as what to get one through a race, I hear people say the usage was in baseball too… but that’s one thing and of course, it is still wrong.

The EPO is starting to sort of alter one’s body composition, sort of genetic or biological, just totally different.

It’s disappointing, the Tour de France, I won’t watch it or the other big events, in Italy, the Giro and Spain, the Vuelta.

But it’s too bad, too really compete, apparently one would need to be doping, one could even buy EPO legally in Switzerland, not sure if it is still that way, there seems to be some dangers. Frankie Andreau bought some, took some but not too much and gave it up.
 
TimeEntrance said:
Colker I’ve just learned has a product he’s pushing called Myo-T12 that may or may not live up to the hype. I’m hazarding a guess from lurking on some bodybuilding forums discussing his product (and research) that it’s probably more a gimmick.

But this protein I’ve just learned about today called myostatin apparently has some medical scientists and pharmaceutical companies interested in it. Apparently this protein stops muscle growth. If pharmaceutical companies figure out a way to inhibit myostatin then this could potentially be something bigger than steroids.

One of my biggest beefs with steroids is that after you come off them eventually you lose a lot of your gains (muscle size; strength). I’m not expert and maybe I’m wrong but I’ve always said you’ll lose about 50% of your gains. On the positive side you keep 50% of those gains.

So, in the long term, in my opinion, it doesn’t seem worth it to invest too much money and time in using steroids. Not if you want to keep 100% or close to 100% of your gains.

This is where being natural to me has the edge.

But learning how to inhibit myostatin is a whole nother game. Best I can tell from what I read is if we could do that then we could literally grow lean muscle mass and strength without even lifting or working out. You certainly can’t do that with steroids.
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Now that would be crazy! I wonder how that would effect the ageing process. I understand what youre saying about the probability of greatly losing your gains, but the immediate strength and aestetic results of taking roids sounds great! If it was legal i would def consider it.
 
Mulligan2 said:
I feel bad for those who didn’t take PED’s. They were denied their opportunity to win on a level playing field by those who cheated.
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There it is, they don’t feel bad though. If fact they know what they accomplished and how they did it and there resides real peace of mind. And you can best believe many had the unfortunate opportunity to witness the dog and pony show first hand.

Perhaps another league like the WW [whatever it is] should be started for those who seek this sort of path to excellence.

I find the ego simply amazing here with Lance. I have seen athletes use steroids and always to compete on a level they desperately struggled with. This is different, to have it in your mind that you now want to corrupt the pinnacle with this nonsense, and not once but “mass produce” artificial victory. I find it a bit much. IMHO that is roid rage, I’d say Lance was “good” on the testosterone level.
 
There are better things to discuss in life than Lance Armstrong… 🤷

Did he dope up? Yes
Did he deny it? No then Yes
Is anyone really surprised? No…golly I hope not

It’s kind of along the like of … Bill Clinton…we just haven’t heard the honesty yet.
Did he inhale?
Did he deny it?
Is anyone really surprised?

🤷
 
Porknpie said:
There are better things to discuss in life than Lance Armstrong… 🤷

Did he dope up? Yes
Did he deny it? No then Yes
Is anyone really surprised? No…golly I hope not

It’s kind of along the like of … Bill Clinton…we just haven’t heard the honesty yet.
Did he inhale?
Did he deny it?
Is anyone really surprised?

🤷
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Are there other threads to post in? Yep
Did you choose to post in this thread, despite there being “better things to discuss?” Yep
 
GaryTaylor said:
This isn’t of issue. What is of issue is the cycle of rapid gain. Which connects to the point of we are “assuming” how one achieves this. All would like to suggest like Barry Bonds they are using “Cream”. Absolutely false and simply a means to minimize and justify.

Called cheating in other words, also.
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@ bold: I realize that is what bothers most critics of its use.

I don’t view that as cheating. And I don’t see why any American or person from a developed nation should in light of the unfair advantages we enjoy over developing nation in competition from everything from sports to business and military capabilities.

You notice most you poor nations don’t collect a lot of medals in the Olympics. Kind of like Brazil exporting so many impoverished citizens soccer players to Europe to play in professional soccer clubs. There is more than “hard work” and “fair” play behind the developed worlds advantage. For one, we provide the best of everything to our athletes; the best facilities, the best equipment, and possibly the best dietary assistance.

We don’t need computers or automobiles. Actually, we don’t need backhoes. Shovels are enough. “Hard work.” But I see few riding on horses or limiting themselves to typewriters because “Word” provides to unfair rapid ability to correct mistakes.

Steroids is just a computer or backhoe or the U.S. advantage with NASA and aircraft carriers.
 
TimeEntrance said:
@ bold: I realize that is what bothers most critics of its use.

I don’t view that as cheating. And I don’t see why any American or person from a developed nation should in light of the unfair advantages we enjoy over developing nation in competition from everything from sports to business and military capabilities.

You notice most you poor nations don’t collect a lot of medals in the Olympics. Kind of like Brazil exporting so many impoverished citizens soccer players to Europe to play in professional soccer clubs. There is more than “hard work” and “fair” play behind the developed worlds advantage. For one, we provide the best of everything to our athletes; the best facilities, the best equipment, and possibly the best dietary assistance.

We don’t need computers or automobiles. Actually, we don’t need backhoes. Shovels are enough. “Hard work.” But I see few riding on horses or limiting themselves to typewriters because “Word” provides to unfair rapid ability to correct mistakes.

Steroids is just a computer or backhoe or the U.S. advantage with NASA and aircraft carriers.
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You post that as if it were a bad thing.
 
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