Opus Dei: Why do they get such a bad rap?

[Augustine]

chicago:

If, on the other hand, they only let it all pass, dismissing such as nothing more than a “tyrant’s rant”, they will only reinforce the predjudices while ensuring that they further isolate themselves…

By this logic, it’s the blacks to blame for the KKK…

As I said, there’s no point to dialoguing with anyone who refuses to hear both sides of an issue. The OD has released a statement on the Da Vinci Code, but I’ve never seen it quoted, although it’s on their web site. And it’s unlikely that we’ll ever hear about it, for the demonization of OD by Brown fits the goals of the enemies of the Church.

OD’s doors are open to anyone wishing to sincerely learn about their spirituality. But many don’t bother and it’s their loss.

God bless.

PS: no, I’m not a member of the OD, but I was back in my home country over 15 years ago.

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

Quite a heated debate. I would like to tell of my experiences with Opus Dei.
My family was all pagan up until the mid 80’s. At this time my older brother began to search for a deeper meaning to life. He wound up getting involved with Opus Dei in about 87. Soon after he got married. In about 89 he converted me. I never knew one thing about God or any religion. In 89 his wife converted from Anglicanism. At her instructions by a parish priest- I went along to learn a bit about the faith I never knew. He is a very holy priest, and I usually spend my Thursdays helping him out(my day off work).
My older brother became a cooperator in Opus Dei, so did I, and so did his wife. They now have six children (the oldest 14). They are the most polite,respectful and in general virtuous kids I have ever seen.
Many strangers even tell them this. I have been seeing a priest of Opus Dei for spiritual direction for 15 yrs. They have been seeing him too. The priest is probably a saint. When he got his calling as a young man, and told St Josemaria, he was told if your going to be a priest you have to be a saint.
I have always had a great love for opus Dei. My family and friends have received such tremendous blessings and graces from our involvement. My older brothers kids often attend mass in their lunch break, go to frequent confession, pray the rosary, do the first saturday devotion etc. But they also have lots of other sport and fun activities. They are extremely well balanced, and very happy with their lives. I am so proud of them.
I have met many other people involved with Opus Dei. And they all make such an effort to make you feel welcome, and to be sure your alright. These people are the best Catholics I have met.
There is more. My mother came back to the Church in 97. She is not involved with Opus Dei, but has been heavily influenced by it through the rest of us. By our prayers and penances and example.
2 mths ago my younger brother came back to the Church and he is now a cooperator ( thats not a member). He has 2 children and they are going to a school run by parents involved with Opus Dei.
The children at these schools usually end up good Catholics, unlike the Catholic schools where 98% leave the faith, when they leave the school.My older bothers kids go to these schools too.
So in my immediate family we have 13/15 as Catholics.
The other 2 are on the way. We are praying etc for them, giving them good literature etc.
In the early 90’s I met a Chaldean Catholic, now RC. He was on his way out of the Church. I spoke at length about the faith, and got him to pray the rosary daily. He has now made over 3000 rosaries for people. Especially in the hospital. How many souls have started praying the rosary because of his efforts, which would never have happenned without opus Dei.
My auntie, uncle and cousin have recently come back to the Church. We are praying hard for their perseverance. Because as with something so beloved by God (as with Opus Dei) the devil works very hard to keep people away. He even tries to turn good Catholics against each other. This should never happen.
My auntie brought another lady I know to Mass a few weeks ago. She has not been to Mass for years. I’m praying she sticks.
My older brother converted an entire family about 2 yrs ago.
I’m sorry this post is so long. But it needs to be said. There has been others, and probably many we don’t know about yet, who have returned/ converted to the Church. And the story is still unfolding. Today I am sending away to have 50 Masses offered for everyone I know, especially those most in need. In the past 2 yrs that makes about 750 Masses. Some might say that’s over the top-crazy. But that’s what people said to St Josemaria Escriva,
'You’re Mad". And he would reply, " Yes. I’m madly in love with God." Read next post for finish.

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

Continued.

The people involved with Opus Dei strive to live with the spirit of the first Christians. And they were damn good Christians. They are not too open, all the time. But, thats because the enemy is there trying to devour the seed that has been planted. Most people involved with Opus Dei are very happy.
All these conversions, from nothing. All because of Opus Dei.
God bless Opus Dei.

 

[chicago]

Augustine:

By this logic, it’s the blacks to blame for the KKK…

As I said, there’s no point to dialoguing with anyone who refuses to hear both sides of an issue. The OD has released a statement on the Da Vinci Code, but I’ve never seen it quoted, although it’s on their web site. And it’s unlikely that we’ll ever hear about it, for the demonization of OD by Brown fits the goals of the enemies of the Church.

But what I am talking about is constructive criticism and honest concerns from faithful Catholics. If even this is dismissed out of hand, then it would seem that they are only confirming and revealing that there is a real problem, afterall.

A dialogue must be sincere and open to listening on the part of both parties. It is a two way street, not a dogmatic imposition of either one side’s position. If OD is not open to this, then they are creating enemies among those who could be their friends and only isolating themselves in such a way that the accusations of “cultic” nature are given something of a foothold by their own foolish doing.

If they were to, further, react with the kind of rhetoric you here provided, they would be justifiably dismissed as whackos. You need to get over your paranoia and escapism of simply blaming “the media” for everything. There are plenty of people (including at least a couple that have posted on this thread) who don’t just have it in for the Church or OD and can certainly offer worthy commentary which ought to be taken seriously to heart. Accusing them of being aligned with the enemy and suggesting that they are blaming the victim is nothing short of nuts.

 

[Augustine]

Augustine:

PS: no, I’m not a member of the OD, but I was back in my home country over 15 years ago.

Let me correct this statement: I wasn’t actually a member of OD. I visited my spiritual director, an OD priest, in an OD center every week. Thus, I was familiar with their spirituality and community life.

 

[Augustine]

chicago:

But what I am talking about is constructive criticism and honest concerns from faithful Catholics.

I didn’t think I’d have to repeat this, but here I go: I’m yet to see a critic of OD having actually spoke to an OD priest or member. Therefore, I’m yet to hear about any constructive criticism or honest concerns, from Catholics or not, about OD. So far, they’ve all been based on misinformation and lack of good faith to know what OD says about itself.

Enough said.

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

There are five signs to a cult. Opus Dei possesses none of them. Members are often told to keep their membership to themselves, but it’s only because they have no obligation to wear a shirt with , I’m an Opus Dei member" on it.
This is how they do their apostolate. Did the first Christians wear such a shirt. No. I understand they were under severe persecution at times, and so is Opus Dei. Opus Dei makes no secret of of the penance and mortification. I’ve seen priests on national TV openly talking about it. It’s in the founders writings too.
Given that so many Catholics have given up the faith or gone very soft and many are lukewarm etc. Many have given up confession too, even though they need it. Should Opus Dei people come barging in with a banner. I think not.
For the apostolate to be effective you must be as simple as a dove, but as wise as the serpent. Opus Dei is being wise. The serpent fights like hell to keep people away from Opus Dei.
Many people make an appointment to start spiritual direction, and the priest knows he has to pray like hell for that person to make it to it. Because of the same serpent.
Medical doctors only tell you what they must eg. they don’t tell you about all the side effects of a medication. So they can gauge whats happenning without fear of imagination etc interfering.
Has there ever been a saint who did not do a lot of prayer and penance? No. But how many parish priests are telling there flock this? How many hear sermons about the reality of devils, sin, hell etc? not many where I live.
Contempt of suffering is cotempt of the cross. We are told to take up that cross and march on with it everyday. But most Catholics are not carrying their cross. This includes religious.
So in this strife torn Church , where most have become lukewarm, Opus Dei preaches that we should live the faith like our ancestors. Especially like the first Christians. But adapt it to the modern world.
The mission of Opus Dei is the same as that of the Church, to evangelise the world. And they do this very effectively.
If members add you to a prayer list, this is not like the satanists putting spells on you to destroy your life. I hope I’m on the prayer list.
When you have Catholics leading very prayerful lives in a spirit of sacrifice. And really striving to become saints, then they are not greater than their master. They, too, will be persecuted.
When we read the Gospels we see Jesus telling us the same things that Opus Dei spirituality emphasises. Christ wants us to be saints with a capital S.
To become a Saint requires a life of struggling and sacrifice. This is what Opus Dei preaches.
If your a lukewarm Catholic, then it’s no good telling you about all the prayer and penance, daily Mass, weekly confession and spiritual direction, talks and circles etc. You have to gradually build people up to the point where they are capable of doing this. It can take a long time. The trainer will not start an unfit person off with a 10 km run. We don’t expect a 3 mth old baby to walk etc.
It’s best not telling most people up front, because most are a bit lukewarm and it’s easy for the enemy to convince them it will be too hard. The enemy will fight like hell to stop them becoming a Saint. That’s my take after 15 yrs as a cooperator.

 

[Annunciata]

John Russell Jr:

There are five signs to a cult. Opus Dei possesses none of them. Members are often told to keep their membership to themselves, but it’s only because they have no obligation to wear a shirt with , I’m an Opus Dei member" on it.
This is how they do their apostolate. Did the first Christians wear such a shirt. No. I understand they were under severe persecution at times, and so is Opus Dei. Opus Dei makes no secret of of the penance and mortification. I’ve seen priests on national TV openly talking about it. It’s in the founders writings too…
For the apostolate to be effective you must be as simple as a dove, but as wise as the serpent. Opus Dei is being wise. The serpent fights like hell to keep people away from Opus Dei.
…
Contempt of suffering is cotempt of the cross. We are told to take up that cross and march on with it everyday. But most Catholics are not carrying their cross. This includes religious.
So in this strife torn Church , where most have become lukewarm, Opus Dei preaches that we should live the faith like our ancestors. Especially like the first Christians. But adapt it to the modern world.
The mission of Opus Dei is the same as that of the Church, to evangelise the world. And they do this very effectively.
If members add you to a prayer list, this is not like the satanists putting spells on you to destroy your life. I hope I’m on the prayer list.
…
If your a lukewarm Catholic, then it’s no good telling you about all the prayer and penance, daily Mass, weekly confession and spiritual direction, talks and circles etc. You have to gradually build people up to the point where they are capable of doing this. It can take a long time. The trainer will not start an unfit person off with a 10 km run. We don’t expect a 3 mth old baby to walk etc.
It’s best not telling most people up front, because most are a bit lukewarm and it’s easy for the enemy to convince them it will be too hard. The enemy will fight like hell to stop them becoming a Saint. That’s my take after 15 yrs as a cooperator.

John, THANK YOU! This whole post is just wonderful… you have explained it so well! God Bless You! My only hope is that it will help others who have doubts truly understand what OD is really all about…
Blessings,
Annunciata

 

[chicago]

Augustine:

I didn’t think I’d have to repeat this, but here I go: I’m yet to see a critic of OD having actually spoke to an OD priest or member. Therefore, I’m yet to hear about any constructive criticism or honest concerns, from Catholics or not, about OD. So far, they’ve all been based on misinformation and lack of good faith to know what OD says about itself.

Enough said.

And I didn’t think that I would have to repeat this, but Minerva and I have both, on this thread, noted our own interaction with OD. I used to regularly attend the local OD parish, still do on occasion, and got to to know both the priests and some other OD members there quite well. (I’m the one who told Scott - who posted earlier in this thread - about St. Mary of the Angels.) I have a hearty respect for the regional vicar, Fr. Peter Armenio. I often have made apologetic for their organization. And, yet, I would also offer some criticism.

Seeing as how the group is so well established in Chicago, I think that there are, indeed, quite a few faithful Catholic people here who have had interactions with them and, nonetheless, have legitimate criticisms.

I think that you take too much from the more radicalized attacks upon the prelature, thus perhaps blinding you to the fact that less suspicious types might have something of worth to offer. Yet, I think that it is precisely this kind of sheltered stonewalling that gives some genuine concern.

 

[chicago]

John Russell Jr:

Medical doctors only tell you what they must eg. they don’t tell you about all the side effects of a medication. So they can gauge whats happenning without fear of imagination etc interfering.

This may be a good analogy. And, yet, I think that it may also get to part of the problem. For while it may be a good idea for a doctor not to let on everything to a patient lest the patient be finding ghost side effects everywhere and getting overly worried, it can also be a problem in the physicians fails to “teach” (the meaning of the word “doctor”) the patient this information so that the patient might be better able to help understand his own health (or lack thereof) better. Indeed, we seem to be getting away from the sensibility of a physician being the all-knowing purveyor of health and knowledge into an age where better educated consumer-patients are more well informed and have great amounts of information readily available, which they can use to assist even the doctor in caring for their own wellbeing. In some cases, patients end up finding information in their personal research and study, concerning matters pertaining to their health, which have ended up saving their own lives; when their physicians didn’t think to check on certain possibilities. There is a certain sense whereby “full disclosure” can, therefore, be a better and more effective policy. Such enables a saavy populous to both sense that everything is out in the open. Considering how Catholics, today, are frequently both highly informed about the faith, but also quite skeptical, this also applies well to matters Ecclesiastical.

Again, none of this should in any way keep OD from ultimately fulfilling their own spirituality, but it might help in better communicating a message to the greater Catholic community that there is nothing to fear here, while at the same time allowing people to see a community which doesn’t appear incessantly worried about how it is “under attack” from the “world”, and therefore strangely isolationist.

 

[Minerva]

chicago, thank you for your balanced perspective on this issue. Augustine, in case you didn’t know, I was heavily involved with Opus Dei for a year when I was at Notre Dame. My best friend was a member, my two other best friends went to Circle with me, we went to Circle every week, I went on a silent retreat with OD, I went on several mini-retreats (days of recollection) at the women’s center, I dated a young man who lived at the men’s center near ND, I went to a female numerary for spiritual direction, I confessed to an OD priest every week for several months, etc, etc. I had alot of interaction with the group, to say the least. And much of it was positive - especially how OD helped jumpstart my prayer life. I have alot of respect for many of the people I met through OD, especially the priest in South Bend, a very cool, funny guy. BUt that doesn’t negate the secretive things OD did. I think it is very sad that OD engages in these practices because it drives people away. OD has alot of good to offer to the world, and it would be more effective in doing so if it would reform itself in the appropriate manner.

 

[4_marks]

RNRobert:

I’ve heard a little bit about Opus Dei, a Catholic lay organization. I don’t know much about them, but it seems many have portrayed them as some sort of sinister organization, from Dan Brown’s potboiler The DaVinci Code to various Protestants writing about the organization. Can anyone shed some light on the subject?

A good portion of the opposition to Opus Dei comes from within the Church, often from Priests and Women Religious. The opposition may stem from misunderstanding the organization, or from fear of it intruding upon their own ministerial agendas and aspirations. I have heard remarks from some that they are “too conservative,” and they want to “turn back the clock to a pre-Vatican II Church.”

 

[Annunciata]

4 marks:

A good portion of the opposition to Opus Dei comes from within the Church, often from Priests and Women Religious. The opposition may stem from misunderstanding the organization, or from fear of it intruding upon their own ministerial agendas and aspirations. I have heard remarks from some that they are “too conservative,” and they want to “turn back the clock to a pre-Vatican II Church.”

4marks,
I think you have touched upon something important here…:clapping: My pastor frowned on my becoming involved w/ Opus Dei…then again, he thinks that many of the priests here in Mass. who are abusers were falsely accused
Annunciata

 

[bear06]

Augustine:

I didn’t think I’d have to repeat this, but here I go: I’m yet to see a critic of OD having actually spoke to an OD priest or member. Therefore, I’m yet to hear about any constructive criticism or honest concerns, from Catholics or not, about OD. So far, they’ve all been based on misinformation and lack of good faith to know what OD says about itself.

Enough said.

I understand what you are saying. I love Opus Dei but I’ve told the members I know that what they do and what they convey don’t always appear to jive. In fact, I’ve been hounding them for years. For example, in our area, people felt that they must be judged before they could find out or become a cooperator. I’ve told many of the members that this is how people feel. Nobody approaches them or explains anything and when they hear about it they still have trouble getting answers. They almost feel like their being “checked out” first. My friend told me that they’re really afraid of overwhelming people and scaring people off by trying to “sign people up.” Unfortunately, they need to find some balance because in their efforts not to scare people off they are scaring people off! I had the same feeling when I first encountered them but I’m not easily scared off. Anyone I’ve told to stick it out has fallen in love with OD. It’s a quiet apostolate which I think is hard to get used to in this day and age.

One must not always look to the members to find out what OD is. Sometimes humans can be bad examples. I think if those who have questions actually talk to the people and priests, they will get a clearer understanding. I don’t think they are refusing disclosure as some might think. Once again, I think it’s just a quiet apostolate. I don’t think anyone will find the people unfriendly or trying to hide anything. They’re just not going to run out and say “Here’s how we’re structured. Here’s what we do and where can I sign you up. By the way, our members make corporal mortifications.” I’ve talked many into not writing them off at first glance and many have become cooperators because they stuck it out! The members and priests are very open to answering any questions you have when people just ask them directly. They also realize that everyone is not called to be a card carrying member. When someone thinks they have this calling they will let them know what that entails like it sounds like they did with Minerva’s friend. However, once again, numeraries are not perfect and sometimes they just don’t know how to approach people. Can you actually imagine hearing about the corporal mortifications before you really had time to see how wonderful the priests were? I imagine that would immediately turn a lot of people off. Like I said, some balance is needed but I’m definitely not condemning the spirituality of OD. I’m sure the devil uses human imperfections, such as a lack of communication, to turn people off.

 

[mhansen]

Dear friends,

As a former numerary, I would like to offer a few things that concerned me and eventually led to my break with Opus Dei.

In the following questions, I am referring to the statutes of Opus Dei. I believe you can obtain the 1982 version of these statutes online, which will suffice for my discussion. The current statutes don’t differ that much, and do not differ at all in regards to the subjects I will discuss.

First, why are all numeraries required to have or be able to obtain (and they will be required to obtain one) a college degree? Are those who aren’t intellectually gifted enough, or financially fit enough to obtain a degree not worthy of the things of Christ and Opus Dei? I would offer this is certainly an example of elitism. Exclusion is not representative of the Gospel.

Second, why are those suffering from “chronic infirmity” not allowed to become numeraries? Didn’t Christ heal the sick? Wasn’t his ministry among the sick, poor, and outcasts of society? If so, then Christ wouldn’t be caught dead in any Opus Dei house, because frankly, you’ll find none of the above there.

Why are the leaders in society targeted for membership, and not the “Average Joe”? Aren’t they worthy of the things of God, or is a six-figure-plus income the determining factor in who is deemed worthy? If money isn’t a factor, then why are all Opus Dei assets kept in one of a thousand-and-one different foundations and business entities, and not in the name of Opus Dei itself?

And for those of you who will offer that those excluded from being a numerary can become a super-numerary, associate, or cooperator I’d like to add that there is a WORLD of difference in the life (and formation) of a numerary compared to the lives of the others, and frankly, unless you’re a numerary, you’re definitely looked down upon in Opus Dei. There is a very real “pecking order.”

 

[Annunciata]

mhansen:

Dear friends,

As a former numerary, I would like to offer a few things that concerned me and eventually led to my break with Opus Dei…

First, why are all numeraries required to have or be able to obtain (and they will be required to obtain one) a college degree? Are those who aren’t intellectually gifted enough, or financially fit enough to obtain a degree not worthy of the things of Christ and Opus Dei? I would offer this is certainly an example of elitism. Exclusion is not representative of the Gospel.

Not true! my best friend is a Numerary and is middle class with no college education…

Why are the leaders in society targeted for membership, and not the “Average Joe”? Aren’t they worthy of the things of God, or is a six-figure-plus income the determining factor in who is deemed worthy? If money isn’t a factor, then why are all Opus Dei assets kept in one of a thousand-and-one different foundations and business entities, and not in the name of Opus Dei itself?

And for those of you who will offer that those excluded from being a numerary can become a super-numerary, associate, or cooperator I’d like to add that there is a WORLD of difference in the life (and formation) of a numerary compared to the lives of the others, and frankly, unless you’re a numerary, you’re definitely looked down upon in Opus Dei. There is a very real “pecking order.”

It seems to me that you just have an axe to grind and shame on you for making such false accusations! Annunciata

 

[Minerva]

One thing that makes OD look bad is when it’s members refuse to admit that OD has ever done anything wrong, mistaken, or imprudent. There is plenty of evidence on this thread from people who have had true experience with Opus Dei that there are some problems with the group. Not that the whole group is corrupt or a cult, but that it does need some reform. When OD members refuse to admit that there is truth to these testimonies, they come off as in denial and blindly loyal to Opus Dei - that looks bad to those on the outside.

This was my experience with OD members in real life too. My OD member friend, even after I was understandably upset to know I’d been placed on the secret St Joseph list, refused to admit that keeping such a secretive list was in anyway deceptive, unusual, or wrong. She also refused to say there was anything wrong with how the numerary handled the situation with my other friend who wanted to become a numerary and wasn’t told about the mortification til after she’d written to the bishop. This was exasperating. This friend of mine would readily admit that the Church as a whole had made mistakes in the past (Galileo, Inquisition, etc) and was in need of reform to this day - but wouldn’t admit the same thing about Opus Dei. It was if OD was perfect and beyond criticism. I wonder if OD members realize just how badly this comes across to non-members.

 

[Annunciata]

Minerva:

… When OD members refuse to admit that there is truth to these testimonies, they come off as in denial and blindly loyal to Opus Dei - that looks bad to those on the outside.

Minerva,
This is your opinion and you are entitled to it…but please don’t accuse people who are completely faithful to the Catholic Church that they are blind or in denial to Opus Dei!
I’m not in it for appearances…I’m in it for the deeper spirituality that it brings me and thats all!
Annunciata

 

[Minerva]

well Annunciata, the fact that you can’t seem to admit that there could be anything wrong with Opus Dei in the slightest, despite what several other posters have said here, is cause for concern. It is not your faithfulness to the Catholic CHurch that is an issue - rather your attachment to Opus Dei, and that you can’t admit it has problems.

 

[bear06]

First, why are all numeraries required to have or be able to obtain (and they will be required to obtain one) a college degree? Are those who aren’t intellectually gifted enough, or financially fit enough to obtain a degree not worthy of the things of Christ and Opus Dei? I would offer this is certainly an example of elitism. Exclusion is not representative of the Gospel.

This is no big secret. They like late vocations. They really want their members to have an education and usually a career so that they can better relate to those that they are ministering (for lack of a better word) to. There are many orders that have certain things they would like their members to do. There are those that minister to the poor, lame, etc. and OD ministers to those in between. They also encourage education and they have set up schools and colleges in many countries.

Second, why are those suffering from “chronic infirmity” not allowed to become numeraries?

Again, many orders have rules similar to this. Missionary work can often be grueling. I had a friend with Hodgkins which was in remission but Mother Teresa would only allow her to serve in a contemplative capacity and not in hands on missionary work. Not everyone is called to the same order, prelature, etc.

Why are the leaders in society targeted for membership, and not the “Average Joe”? Aren’t they worthy of the things of God, or is a six-figure-plus income the determining factor in who is deemed worthy? If money isn’t a factor, then why are all Opus Dei assets kept in one of a thousand-and-one different foundations and business entities, and not in the name of Opus Dei itself?

I would expect a numerary to know these things. First of all, my sister who is a member doesn’t make six figures and I know other members who don’t either. The different foundations you are talking about are not OD foundations. They are apostolates that members have founded on their own which is what we are all, members or not, encouraged to do

unless you’re a numerary, you’re definitely looked down upon in Opus Dei.

There is a very real “pecking order.”

I’ve got to say you sound quite bitter. I’m not sure of your circumstances but I’ve been treated with nothing but respect and I’m not even a member. I’ve made it clear that I don’t feel called to be a member and am always received with great appreciation when I go to OD things.