Opus Dei: Why do they get such a bad rap?

[John_Russell_Jr]

Further to mt previous posts.
My friend who made the 3,000 + Rosaries is a cooperator. He’s poor and retired. but very happy. And Opus Dei embraces him with both arms.
The family my brother converted a few years ago, have the father as a cooperator and I’m not sure if his wife is or not, too. He’s not wealthy.
The Rosary apostle has had 2 brothers come back to the Church since he found his second wind and started praying for them.
He also once heard that an old Catholic (Egyptian) who lives down the street was dying. He went to him and gave him a rosary. The man broke down crying. The man said he was brought up as a Catholic but spent his adult life being very irreligious and materialistic. And now he was going to die he realised the mistakes he had made. He started to pray the Rosary around the clock with his wife, until he died. God rest his soul. His wife and son probably came back to the Church at this time too.
There are many other stories like this that we know and don’t yet know about.
All of us are working class and not highly educated or very wealthy. And Opus Dei is very warm towards us. It’s in no way condescending to us. It follows the Masters example , " The greatest among you must be the servant of all."
Opus Dei people live the gospel to the best of their abilities.
And to those who keep mispelling the words for members. Here they are- Numerae- single member. Super Numerae- married member.
I won’t spend all day trying to refute the erroneous perceptions of Opus dei. Instead I will offer one more example. My spiritual director had great success in 1994-1995. He got a large group of candidates together to go to the seminary to become parish priests. Unfortunately, the seminary was off the rails trendy. They had to do 3-4 hrs study each night ( aided by orthodox priests) to learn the true faith etc. My director was worried maybe only 10-12, or even as few as 6 out of the 24 would make it through the seminary because of the circumstances. He asked me to pray hard for them. I had a lot of poor health, so I offered that up for them as well as a lot of Masses, prayers etc. I know I am just a small part in the scheme of things. But 18 got through in very difficult circumstances. That’s barely touching the tremendous influence of opus Dei in the Church and the world. I know cooperators who contribute much money for seminarians in training for the priesthood. And not to become opus Dei priests. Opus Dei is helping the Church in so many ways.

 

[Deacon2006]

What little I know about Opus Dei and the few OD priest I have met I can only say good things about them.

God Bless

 

[Augustine]

HagiaSophia:

What’s so funnyy to me is that in the old days, when the Jesuits were what they oughta be, many of the same things were said about them.

Not only in the old days. The Jesuits are still looked down by many inside and outside the Church. As a matter of fact, this looking down is an old resource of those with an axe to grind against Jesus’ Church targeted at any proeminent Catholic group, in particular in Protestant countries.

Darn, even the history books in this country misrepresent what the Reformation was about to pump up the Protestant side! Of course, when we try to correct that Luther’s questions had no or little base on reality and a lot was just in his poor formation, we’re accused of not being able to admit that the Church would do anything wrong.

This is getting old…

 

[RNRobert]

Augustine:

See interbit.com/blogger/OpusDeiFAQ.html#q34

HTH

Sounds alot like the old days, when saints like Thomas Becket and Thomas More wore hairshirts. I like what someone (it may have been Fulton Sheen) said: “Nowadays our neighbors are our hairshirts.”

 

[edrubbra2]

chicago:

I may have alluded to this earlier, but to say a bit more…

I think that one of the difficulties Opus Dei faces in the U.S. is that our culture is quite different than that in which OD was founded and grew up.

Not only was OD in Spain in a situation with the Church existing under Fascist rule, but the Spanish personality is more “romantic” in nature. That is to say that it is more expressive, emotionally rooted, and in a particular way familial. That doesn’t always translate well into a U.S. culture which tends to be more rationalistic, skeptical, Calvinistic, individualistic, Ecclesiatically shaped largely by the Irish experience of a certain reservation of expression due to the long persecution of Catholics in that country where so many immigarted from.

What a lot of the problems with OD stem from, then I think, are essentially a culture and personality clash. Further, the familial nature of the organization (as well as the conditions under which it was shaped in Spain) perhaps lead to a certain defensiveness among it’s members. For they feel a very strong attachment to the group and recognize the value which it has been to them. Therefore, any criticism which they sense can become akin to saying bad things about their mother or sister and wanting to defend the family honor ;or criticizing something which has become deeply personal and, therefore, which they relate to their own nature and character. And their response, too, may resemble that which is more natural to the Romantic cultures. To someone who is not coming at things from this angle, however, it just seems odd and like an over-reaction.

 

[edrubbra2]

I’m sorry people, but I’m having alot of trouble posting here as trhis is only my second time. Twice my lengthy reply post has been deleted when I tried to edit it.

The previous post was posted incomplete.

I’ll try to repost my reply later today.

 

[edrubbra2]

OK, I’ll try to reply to this once more.

The controversies over the culture of Opus Dei in the U.S. (and in Australia, where I reside) I feel are basically because of the vast differences between the Spanish and the American (or Australian) ways of doing things. The Opus Dei culture is a Spanish one, as is the Philippine culture of the Catholic family society Couples for Christ to which I and my Filipino wife belong. I was very surprised to see everyone in CFC wearing the obligatory photo-ID cards authorised by the founder of the society in Manila, Frank Padilla, and the many lists of attendees and absentees with authorizations by higher officers of CFC and the flourishing titles some people were given.

I must admit that I was astounded to discover what the “corporal mortifications” (corporal punishments) of Opus Dei entailed, and how they were self-administered with the “cilice” and the “discipline”. This sounded downright mediaeval, not to mention possibly illegal and contrary to current good medical and psychological practice. Then again, in the Philippines men routinely are nailed to crosses and are flogged as “mortification” on every Good Friday.

I fear that cultural differences like this are very difficult to accept by many non-Spanish societies. Likewise, many of our cultural differences are probably very difficult for them to accept, such as our placing our old folks in nursing homes rather that looking after them in our homes as Spanish societies do.

 

[1_Maria]

edrubbra2:

OK, I’ll try to reply to this once more.

The controversies over the culture of Opus Dei in the U.S. (and in Australia, where I reside) I feel are basically because of the vast differences between the Spanish and the American (or Australian) ways of doing things. The Opus Dei culture is a Spanish one, as is the Philippine culture of the Catholic family society Couples for Christ to which I and my Filipino wife belong. I was very surprised to see everyone in CFC wearing the obligatory photo-ID cards authorised by the founder of the society in Manila, Frank Padilla, and the many lists of attendees and absentees with authorizations by higher officers of CFC and the flourishing titles some people were given.

I must admit that I was astounded to discover what the “corporal mortifications” (corporal punishments) of Opus Dei entailed, and how they were self-administered with the “cilice” and the “discipline”. This sounded downright mediaeval, not to mention possibly illegal and contrary to current good medical and psychological practice. Then again, in the Philippines men routinely are nailed to crosses and are flogged as “mortification” on every Good Friday.

I fear that cultural differences like this are very difficult to accept by many non-Spanish societies. Likewise, many of our cultural differences are probably very difficult for them to accept, such as our placing our old folks in nursing homes rather that looking after them in our homes as Spanish societies do.

Very interesting and informative post. Thank you.

I need to think about it in regards to other situations on these forums.

Maria

 

[HagiaSophia]

Augustine:

Not only in the old days. The Jesuits are still looked down by many inside and outside the Church. As a matter of fact, this looking down is an old resource of those with an axe to grind against Jesus’ Church targeted at any proeminent Catholic group, in particular in Protestant countries.

Unfortunately the reputation of the Jesuits isn’t what it used to be and not from any outside forces but through their own membership in many cases. That being as it may any effective group of religious always has negative things said about it - whether it be Dominicans, Carmelites, Benedictines, etc.

Augustine:

Darn, even the history books in this country misrepresent what the Reformation was about to pump up the Protestant side! Of course, when we try to correct that Luther’s questions had no or little base on reality and a lot was just in his poor formation, we’re accused of not being able to admit that the Church would do anything wrong.

Well every faith has canards or stereotypes about it - some of them have a grain of truth, others have none. It’s the way of the world. One of the most common is the “Dark Ages…” which weren’t so dark when you study them.

 

[misericordie]

Minerva:

they mostly get a bad rap because they are conservative and orthodox…but there are some things they do that make them look rather cultish, even though they aren’t. For example, if you are not a member but are friends with a member or come to the meetings, they will put your name on a list called the “St Joseph List” and start praying for you to become a member if it’s your vocation. They don’t tell you that you’re on the list though. It took me over a year to find this out from an OD friend of mine. Nothing evil of course, but unnecessarily secretive, I think, and it rubs people the wrong way.

They are very quiet about revealing their OD affiliation - the centers where the numeraries live and the schools are given secular names like “Southold” or “Windmore” that don’t reveal that they are OD centers, or even Catholic. Again, nothing wrong per se, but it strikes others as odd and unecessary.

I was originally invited to come to weekly meetings. Only after I had been going to them for several months did my OD friend tell me I had already made a commitment to the meetings and had to come one night when I had other things to do. This was news to me!

Also a good friend of mine wanted to become a numerary. She thought she knew what numeraries did after spending time with the group and talking to numeraries. They had her write a letter to the OD bishop. After that was the first time they told her about the corporeal mortification the numeraries do. She was very upset and felt they had “tricked” her by not telling her about it upfront, waiting instead til she had already started a commitment to OD. She soon quit everything with OD and became a bitter opponent of the group (she was and still is orthodox tho).

It’s little things like this that add up and make the group look secretive, like it needs to hide something. Even very orthodox Catholics are put off by this and think the group is a cult. My husband thinks it’s cult based on what I’ve told him about OD, though I disagree.

Those who usually attack Opus Dei are very liberal in their catholic ideas and well I guess they don’t like Opus dei because Opus goes agaist their agendas. Funny how a PERSONAL PRELATURE OF THE POPE is labled as secretive: after all, secretive with whom? If its with those who otherwise would attack the Opus of course they have to be secretive: lets keep in mind though that to the Roman authorities they are all but a secret: After all the POPE HIMSELF knows all little details abd all that goes on: which is nothing but leading all members to the service of the Church. Hence, secret to liberal catholics, but NON secretive to the whole vatican Curia who speaks every single day marvels of Opud Dei. Again, it is the ONLY personal prelature of the POPE: they answer to no one BUT THE POPE! One must know something INSIDE before one could negatively attack the Opus.
www.opusdei.org

 

[misericordie]

Minerva:

I’m not “imagining” anything about OD - what I have posted is based on my real experiences with the group. I don’t have any ax to grind - like I said earlier, I don’t think OD is a cult and I respect many of the people I met who were in it. But yes it is deceptive to target someone for membership without even bothering to tell them that you’d like them to become a member of Opus Dei. Had my friend told me at the beginning that they wanted me as a member, that would’ve been fine. But putting me on a list without my knowledge or consent is just creepy. It isn’t analogous to one’s private life, because the stuff OD was secretive about affected other people, such as my would-be numerary friend.

Once again, is it possible for a member of OD to admit that the group has done some things wrong or at least imprudently? Or is OD above criticism, and anyone who disagree is delusional or lying?

The Second Vatican Council taught that all the baptized are called to follow Jesus Christ, by living according to the Gospel and making it known to others. The aim of Opus Dei is to contribute to that evangelizing mission of the Church. Opus Dei encourages Christians of all social classes to live consistently with their faith, in the middle of the ordinary circumstances of their lives, especially through the sanctification of their work.

In order to fulfill this mission, the prelature offers spiritual formation and pastoral care to its members, as well as to many others. With the help of this pastoral attention they are encouraged to put the teachings of the Gospel into practice, through exercising the Christian virtues and sanctifying their work.

For the faithful of the prelature, sanctifying work means working according to the spirit of Jesus Christ: with the greatest possible competence, for the glory of God and the service of others, thus contributing to the sanctification of the world, by making the Gospel present in all human endeavours.

The faithful of the prelature carry out their individual task of evangelization in the various sectors of society in which they live and work. Their apostolic work is not limited to specific fields such as education, care for the sick, or other forms of direct social aid. The prelature seeks to remind people that all Christians, whatever their background or situation, must cooperate in solving the problems of society in a Christian way, and bear constant witness to their faith.

 

[misericordie]

Year of the Eucharist (II)

As we continue in the Year of the Eucharist, Pope John Paul II encourages us to “begin again from Christ.” Here you will find some words from St. Josemaría Escrivá on the Eucharist.

14 October 2004

http://www.opusdei.org/img/eucara.jpgConversations with Monsignor Escrivá

We are celebrating the holy Eucharist, the sacramental Sacrifice of the Body and Blood of our Lord, that Mystery of Faith which links all the mysteries of Christianity. We are celebrating, therefore, the most sacred and transcendent act which man, with the grace of God, can carry out in this life. To communicate with the Body and Blood of our Lord is, in a certain sense, like loosening the bonds of earth and time, in order to be already with God in heaven, where Christ Himself will wipe the tears from our eyes and where there will be no more death, nor mourning, nor cries of distress, because the old world will have passed away (cf. Apoc. 21:4) (Conversations, 113)

The Way

Consider what is most beautiful and most noble on earth, what pleases the mind and the other faculties, and what delights the flesh and the senses.

And the world, and the other worlds that shine in the night: the whole universe. Well this, along with all the follies of the heart satisfied, is worth nothing, is nothing and less than nothing compared… with this God of mine! — of yours! Infinite treasure, pearl of great price, humbled, become a slave, reduced to the form of a servant in the stable where he chose to be born, in Joseph’s workshop, in his passion and in his ignominious death… and in the madness of Love which is the blessed Eucharist. (#432)

When you approach the Tabernacle remember that he has been awaiting you for twenty centuries. (#537)

There he is: King of Kings, and Lord of Lords, hidden in the Bread.

To this extreme has he humbled himself through love for you. (#538)

Don’t omit the visit to the Blessed Sacrament. After your usual vocal prayer, tell Jesus, really present in the Tabernacle, of the cares and worries of your day. And you will receive light and strength for your life as a Christian.(#554)

The Forge

Good child: see how lovers on earth kiss the flowers, the letters, the mementos of those they love…

Then you, how could you ever forget that you have him always at your side — yes, Him? How could you forget… that you can eat him? (#305)

In the Holy Sacrifice of the altar, the priest takes up the Body of our God, and the Chalice containing his Blood, and raises them above all the things of the earth, saying: Per Ipsum, et cum Ipso, et in Ipso — through My Love, with My Love, in My Love!

Unite yourself to the action of the priest. Or rather, make that act of the priest a part of your life. (#541)

The Gospel tells us that Jesus hid himself when they wanted to make him king after he had worked the miracle.

Lord, you make us share in the miracle of the Eucharist. We beg you not to hide away. Live with us. May we see you, may we touch you, may we feel you. May we want to be beside you all the time, and have you as the King of our lives and of our work. (#542)

He was the greatest madman of all times. What greater madness could there be than to give oneself as he did, and for such people?

It would have been mad enough to have chosen to become a helpless Child. But even then, many wicked men might have been softened, and would not have dared to harm him. So this was not enough for him. He wanted to make himself even less, to give himself more lavishly. He made himself food, he became Bread.

Divine Madman! How do men treat you? How do I treat you? (#824)

 

[edwinG]

RNRobert:

I’ve heard a little bit about Opus Dei, a Catholic lay organization. I don’t know much about them, but it seems many have portrayed them as some sort of sinister organization, from Dan Brown’s potboiler The DaVinci Code to various Protestants writing about the organization. Can anyone shed some light on the subject?

Hi RNRobert,
I went to the link and read 90% of what is written there. The reason they get such a bad rap is they lack faith. They have commissioned a set of rules and they have cut God, as the Holy Spirit, out of His work. It is full of mens wisdom. Saving themselves, when it is God’s work that saves us.They seem to lack an understanding of God.
Christ be with you
walk in love
edwinGhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif

 

[RNRobert]

edwinG:

Hi RNRobert,
I went to the link and read 90% of what is written there. The reason they get such a bad rap is they lack faith. They have commissioned a set of rules and they have cut God, as the Holy Spirit, out of His work. It is full of mens wisdom. Saving themselves, when it is God’s work that saves us.They seem to lack an understanding of God.
Christ be with you
walk in love
edwinGhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif

Edwin:

How do you know they lack faith? Did you read any of the posts on this thread talking about them? If you read some of the posts by John Russell, it would appear that many of them have great faith, and great love for God.
Once again Edwin, you are arguing from the either/or position :banghead: .
You assume that just because an organization has rules, the people in it lack faith or don’t have the Holy Spirit. If you read the New Testament, you’ll see that even though Christians were to be filled with the Holy Spirit, it did not mean they didn’t need rules (read 1st Corinthians, for instance).
Edwin, the Catholic Church has many fine organizations for spreading the Gospel and helping others. But these, like any organization, needs rules to define their mission and goals. Without them, they become a disorganized mob, regardless of whether or not it’s members are filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

[1_Maria]

RNRobert:

… the Catholic Church has many fine organizations for spreading the Gospel and helping others. But these, like any organization, needs rules to define their mission and goals. Without them, they become a disorganized mob, regardless of whether or not it’s members are filled with the Holy Spirit.

…and the rules as well as the statutes, need Papal approval.

Maria

 

[Annunciata]

misericordie:

Year of the Eucharist (II)

As we continue in the Year of the Eucharist, Pope John Paul II encourages us to “begin again from Christ.” Here you will find some words from St. Josemaría Escrivá on the Eucharist.

14 October 2004

http://www.opusdei.org/img/eucara.jpgConversations with Monsignor Escrivá

The Way

…
When you approach the Tabernacle remember that he has been awaiting you for twenty centuries. (#537)

… This is one of my favorites… BTW, great posts Mis, you are a “good and faithful servant”… Are you sure God isn’t calling you to something “special”?
God Bless,
Annunciata

 

[Augustine]

HagiaSophia:

Unfortunately the reputation of the Jesuits isn’t what it used to be and not from any outside forces but through their own membership in many cases.

Sadly, very true. And not the Jesuits, but many other orders have been corrupted from the inside. More so after VII than before, unfortunately.

HagiaSophia:

One of the most common is the “Dark Ages…” which weren’t so dark when you study them.

In this country, the “dark ages” go from the death of Christ to the Reformation. Go figure…

 

[bear06]

edwinG:

Hi RNRobert,
I went to the link and read 90% of what is written there. The reason they get such a bad rap is they lack faith. They have commissioned a set of rules and they have cut God, as the Holy Spirit, out of His work. It is full of mens wisdom. Saving themselves, when it is God’s work that saves us.They seem to lack an understanding of God.
Christ be with you
walk in love
edwinGhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif

What link were you looking at? I think you might of misunderstood something. Let me see if I can explain it for you. It’s about offering all of our works to God. Making the simplest mundain chore a gift to God. Basically, if you were a housewife, you can make every dish you wash, towel you fold, etc. a gift to God. If you are a carpenter, you can make ever nail you hit a gift to God. Etc., etc., etc. I don’t think you can think there is a lack of faith in someone who tries to keep God always present in their minds.

Can you give an example of where they lack faith?

 

[bear06]

You assume that just because an organization has rules, the people in it lack faith or don’t have the Holy Spirit.

What would Edwin say to St. Francis? He also had rules. In fact, as recall, the Pope thought them too harsh at first before the Holy Spirit, in his dreams, told them that St. Francis was the man for the job.

 

[misericordie]

edwinG:

Hi RNRobert,
I went to the link and read 90% of what is written there. The reason they get such a bad rap is they lack faith. They have commissioned a set of rules and they have cut God, as the Holy Spirit, out of His work. It is full of mens wisdom. Saving themselves, when it is God’s work that saves us.They seem to lack an understanding of God.
Christ be with you
walk in love
edwinGhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif

Well all, this is a good example of what pentecostals think of us catholics.
This post is so immature and so full of SLANDER that it lacks credability. I may be “slapped in the hand” by some for saying this, but when it comes to the Church and its defense, I don’t care what, I will always defend it no matter who likes it or not.
Christ too was persecuted, and if I am banned for saying this, all know why: in defense of the Church.