Original Sin question

[PRmerger]

When God says something in the bible, which is the word of God, could you explain the process whereby you determine which colour pen you are going to use?

I suppose it’s the same process you use to determine which color pen you are going to use for your science book.

You seem to be under a missaprehension regarding science. Nothing is metaphorical (unless you are using a metaphor to describe a complex idea).

I’m using “metaphorical” as a…metaphor…for “things in science which have multiple views”.

The only thing that is meant to be taken as a given is evidence (assuming it has been collected correctly). And everything else, and I mean literally everything else, is provisional. That is, you are allowed to interpret the evidence any way you like as long as it conforms with your theory.

LOL!

Um…no.

No pilot is “allowed to interpret” the evidence of the flight trajectories in any way she likes “as long as it conforms” with her theory.

That’s the most gaga, lala nonsense I’ve read here in a long time.

 

[PRmerger]

Adam and Eve sin. God kicks them out of the Garden of Eden. So are we.
We suffer the same punishment.

We suffer the consequences of our first parents’ sin.

Just like a child suffers the consequences of her mother’s sin:

 

[BobCatholic]

We suffer the consequences of our first parents’ sin.

Just like a child suffers the consequences of her mother’s sin:

God imposed the punishment of Adam and Eve being kicked out of the Garden of Eden. We suffer that same punishment because God won’t let us back in. This is 100% God imposed punishment.

The mother caused your example. God didn’t.

You are comparing apples and roast beef.

 

[PRmerger]

God imposed the punishment of Adam and Eve being kicked out of the Garden of Eden. We suffer that same punishment because God won’t let us back in.

Yes. We lost the original state of sanctification that is required for union with Him.

It’s simple logic.

The mother caused your example. God didn’t.

Right.

And Eve, our mother, caused your example

QED.

Mothers. Parents.

They squander.
Children are punished.

It’s simply natural consequences.

 

[BobCatholic]

Yes. We lost the original state of sanctification that is required for union with Him.

It’s simple logic.

And God could restore that easily, which he chose not to do. And God kicked them out. God refused to say “OK your kids can come back in” Nope, he kept the punishment going on them.

Right.

And Eve, our mother, caused your example

QED.

Mothers. Parents.

They squander.
Children are punished.

It’s simply natural consequences.

RIght, children ARE punished. We are punished!

And Adam and Eve didn’t “cause” us to be kicked out of the Garden of Eden, that was a punishment imposed on us by God.

We got the Cosmic Parking Ticket:

BobCatholic:

I used the example of a parking ticket.

You get a letter from the city. Apparently you got a parking ticket. Reading closer, you see that the license plate number is transposed and the car make/model is incorrect so someone else clearly did the parking violation but you got the notice in the mail.

So you go to the hearing and argue your case. You show proof you didn’t do it.

The judge rules against you and fines you $100 for the parking ticket.

You’re not responsible for the parking violation, but you are being held responsible.
You didn’t do the deed, but you’re paying the price.

We are held temporally responsible for Adam and Eve’s sin. And pretty much other people’s sins as well.

 

[PRmerger]

And God could restore that easily, which he chose not to do.

Errr…Bob? Are you aware of this?

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1231AV_x1uA/hqdefault.jpg

It’s kind of a biggie as far as Christianity goes.

God did restore it.

Sheesh.

 

[Bradski]

I suppose it’s the same process you use to determine which color pen you are going to use for your science book.

I’ve already explained how science works. It ain’t the same as theology. So, again, how do you determine the veracity of a biblical account?

And you are confusing the practical aspects of theories, such as flying a plane, with the formulation of theories, such as why planes fly, with the available evidence.

Again, all theories are provisional. Go Google that and you’ll find quotes by Popper, Mott,
Hawkin, Sagan…the list just goes on and on. It’s one of the bedrocks of science. And again, you interpret the evidence in light of any theory you care to formulate. If it doesn’t fit the evidence it is wrong. If it does, then it is provisionally correct.

All theories are coloured with the same pen. In fact, to avoid confusing those who don’t grasp the concept, it would be easier to print them on the same colour paper.

 

[PRmerger]

I’ve already explained how science works. It ain’t the same as theology.

Well, yes and no. In the same way they both point to truth and reality.

Science and theology do indeed have many similarities. And yet they are different, yes.

So, again, how do you determine the veracity of a biblical account?

Why don’t you give me an example of a particular account you’re thinking of?

And you are confusing the practical aspects of theories, such as flying a plane, with the formulation of theories, such as why planes fly, with the available evidence.

How so?

Again, all theories are provisional. Go Google that and you’ll find quotes by Popper, Mott,
Hawkin, Sagan…the list just goes on and on. It’s one of the bedrocks of science. And again, you interpret the evidence in light of any theory you care to formulate. If it doesn’t fit the evidence it is wrong. If it does, then it is provisionally correct.

All theories are coloured with the same pen. In fact, to avoid confusing those who don’t grasp the concept, it would be easier to print them on the same colour paper.

This is just a long way to say: we have certainty in Science, but not absolute certainty.

And, guess what: that’s exactly the same paradigm for Theology!

 

[BobCatholic]

Errr…Bob? Are you aware of this?

It’s kind of a biggie as far as Christianity goes.

God did restore it.

Sheesh.

Yes.

Christ took care of the SPIRITUAL punishment.

He didn’t take care of the TEMPORAL punishment.

If He did, please tell me the GPS coordinates of the Garden of Eden and my family and I are packing our bags.

 

[PRmerger]

I’ve already explained how science works. It ain’t the same as theology. So, again, how do you determine the veracity of a biblical account?

So here’s my question: you’re back to being a daddy of an infant. Your pediatrician recommends vaccinations against measles, mumps and rubella.

How do you determine whether you’re going to do this or not?

 

[PRmerger]

Yes.

Christ took care of the SPIRITUAL punishment.

He didn’t take care of the TEMPORAL punishment.

If He did, please tell me the GPS coordinates of the Garden of Eden and my family and I are packing our bags.

Imagine what would happen if your sin didn’t create temporal punishments.

Tell me how this world would look to you.

 

[BobCatholic]

Imagine what would happen if your sin didn’t create temporal punishments.

Tell me how this world would look to you.

If I were in the Garden of Eden this would not be an issue. So, please provide me the GPS coordinates.

 

[Bradski]

So here’s my question: you’re back to being a daddy of an infant. Your pediatrician recommends vaccinations against measles, mumps and rubella.

How do you determine whether you’re going to do this or not?

I keep asking what I believe to be a relatively straightforward question but I keep getting asked questions in return.

If it’s not going to be answered, then I’ll stop asking it.

 

[PRmerger]

If I were in the Garden of Eden this would not be an issue. So, please provide me the GPS coordinates.

No, Bob.

Adam and Eve have already made their choice. Sanctifying grace is gone.

It was repaired by Christ.

No more eternal punishment.

Tell me how a world would look where there is no temporal punishment for sins.

 

[PRmerger]

I keep asking what I believe to be a relatively straightforward question but I keep getting asked questions in return.

If it’s not going to be answered, then I’ll stop asking it.

I told you to give me the particular biblical narrative you have in mind.

That’s not a difficult request to fulfill, is it?

And you don’t want to answer my question? Why is that?

 

[BobCatholic]

It was repaired by Christ.

No more eternal punishment.

Correct.

No more ETERNAL punishment.

No more SPIRITUAL punishment.

But we still got the TEMPORAL punishment.

Let’s test this.

Where are you located? What’s your GPS coordinates? What’s your 20 good buddy?

I know the answer: NOT THE GARDEN OF EDEN.

We are temporally held responsible for Adam and Eve’s sin.

Tell me how a world would look where there is no temporal punishment for sins.

Heaven.

 

[PRmerger]

Correct.

No more ETERNAL punishment.

No more SPIRITUAL punishment.

But we still got the TEMPORAL punishment.

Let’s test this.

Where are you located? What’s your GPS coordinates? What’s your 20 good buddy?

I know the answer: NOT THE GARDEN OF EDEN.

We are temporally held responsible for Adam and Eve’s sin…

No, Bob.

We are held responsible, temporally and spiritually, for OUR sins. Not the sin of A and E.

 

[BobCatholic]

We are held responsible, temporally and spiritually, for OUR sins. Not the sin of A and E.

OK, so show me the location of the Garden of Eden.

I want to be able to live in Paradise with only one rule to follow.

I’ve asked you multiple times, why are you hiding this information?

 

[PRmerger]

So here’s my question: you’re back to being a daddy of an infant. Your pediatrician recommends vaccinations against measles, mumps and rubella.

How do you determine whether you’re going to do this or not?

You know, I’m just going to pre-empt here and say that I already know what your answer is, Bradski, to what you did when your children were infants: you went with what your pediatrician suggested and didn’t give it a second thought.

So…

No need to have a double standard.

The same modus you use should be permitted for believers as well.

I rest my case. :curtsey:

 

[PRmerger]

OK, so show me the location of the Garden of Eden.

I want to be able to live in Paradise with only one rule to follow.

I’ve asked you multiple times, why are you hiding this information?

Bye, Bob.