Original Sin

[bilop]

I agree that Adam’s free will was limited, and he did not truly have free will.

I think that God created Adam and Eve imperfect. And because they were not perfect, they will make mistakes.

They were either stupid, proud, or naive - those are imperfections.

God is the Great Programmer in the Sky, wrote a buggy program, which crashed, and then He punishes the program by kicking it out of the operating system.

Of course Adam had free will, he chose to disobey God. He didn’t have to make that choice.

If there is free will, then man must have the ability to choose evil. A created being can’t be perfect; only God is perfect. Any denial by God of the ability to err and choose evil would eviscerate free will. Man would be nothing but a robot.

Your computer analogies actually implies that. God didn’t create a machine. He created being with free-will.

God Bless

 

[bilop]

Granny, that line has to be seen in context. What I said there, basically, is that coercion takes all of the “free” out of “free submission”.

Does man have free will? Yes, to the degree that we are aware, we have free will. Our free will, though, is limited by our ignorance and blindness. Is a blind person free? No, he is somewhat enslaved by his limitation. (note: I am not talking about the sight-impaired)

Nothing I have said contradicts John 3:16 or John 6. What I am saying is that there is room in the Church for those of us who find primarily that God loves us (and forgives) unconditionally, which can be learned from our prayer lives. God’s unconditional love and forgiveness is a divine revelation that all of us can learn from the passion, I learned it from the Catholic Church. If there is something else that appears to contradict such love, then those contradictions have to be ironed out by the individual. For me, such “ironing out” involves dealing with contradictions between unconditional love and the story of God condemning Adam.

God forgives, as long as we repent. An unrepentant person can not be forgiven. One can decline to punish them, but forgiveness requires repentance.

God Bless

 

[fhansen]

God forgives, as long as we repent. An unrepentant person can not be forgiven. One can decline to punish them, but forgiveness requires repentance.

God Bless

I think the most important point is that God desires a change of heart in us-but won’t force that to happen. And so regardless of His disposition, regardless of the fact that He forgives all, no benefit is gained for us unless we repent, unless we accept the forgiveness IOW. Christ’s sacrifice on the cross-the Atonement-is nothing if not a glaring, in-your-face testimony to God’s forgiveness/love/mercy, in spite of man’s unreasonable doubts about Him.

 

[OneSheep]

I agree that Adam’s free will was limited, and he did not truly have free will.

I think that God created Adam and Eve imperfect. And because they were not perfect, they will make mistakes.

They were either stupid, proud, or naive - those are imperfections.

I would change “stupid” to “ignorant”. “Stupid” implies resentment on the part of the observer. Do you resent our ignorance?

Is pride an imperfection? Well, depends on the way you look at it. Why did God create us with the desires for status, dominance, and control (which are the more resented aspects of “pride”)? These desires all have their place in the survival of individuals and species - and not just humans! Most animals, especially social ones, have such “pride”. If you are talking about our God-given autonomy, the desire for freedom, this too is a gift from God. Sin is caused by good drives (appetites) filtered through our ignorance and blindness.

So, are we “perfect”? No, but the “imperfections” are all well-intended and have their place. The net result is good. We would be perfect if we had perfect awareness. So, do I resent God for creating us ignorant? Here is where my faith comes in. I don’t know why we are created ignorant, but the rest of the animal kingdom is ignorant too. It’s a mystery, but I do see that we are becoming less ignorant as time passes.

God is the Great Programmer in the Sky, wrote a buggy program, which crashed, and then He punishes the program by kicking it out of the operating system.

Well, I disagree. God the Great Programmer wrote a buggy program with a subroutine called “conscience”. When the buggy program behaves in ways that cause problems, the subroutine says “you are bad, you are a jerk, you are stupid, you are lazy, you are unacceptable, etc.”, which serves to motivate the buggy program to modify its behavior. The subroutine is informed by the experiences of the “buggy program” itself.

Autonomous man is deposited (by the Great Programmer) into the buggy program. Man hears the voice of the subroutine and believes it is the voice of the Great Programmer kicking us out of the operating system. The Great Programmer sends His son to show us that He loves us unconditionally.

 

[grannymh]

Why did God create us with the desires for status, dominance, and control (which are the more resented aspects of “pride”)?

I put “us” in bold as a clarification.

“Us” guys and gals are not the created founders of the human species.

“Us” have real human parents who had real human parents – which leads to the obvious fact that “Us” are not the original founders of humankind.

The real, first founder of humankind is the first fully-complete human person biblically known as Adam. He with his spouse transmitted their human nature to their human descendants, of which we are.

Obviously,
there will be contradiction problems, including mishaps when it comes to spirituality in humans, when Catholic teachings about the first created human Adam and Original Sin are ignored.

:sad_yes:

Catholic teachings have already been presented in various posts by a number of posters. Catholic teachings will continue to be presented as time permits.

 

[OneSheep]

God forgives, as long as we repent. An unrepentant person can not be forgiven. One can decline to punish them, but forgiveness requires repentance.

God Bless

Jesus Christ forgave an unrepentant crowd from the cross.

Since God loves us unconditionally, and forgiveness is an act of love, God forgives unconditionally. Repentance is not a condition imposed.

However, there is place for the statement “forgiveness requires repentance”. First of all, forgiveness itself is an act of repentance from our compulsion to carry a grudge. Secondly, it is extremely difficult to forgive if we do not repent, and I will give this example:

Let’s say Johnny is an addict. He is in denial of his addiction, because his conscience beats him up so much about it if he acknowledges it. Denial is his automatic blindness, saving him from possible suicide. He is out of control. Johnny is going to have a real tough time forgiving himself, because the lack of control over the problem “pushes” the self-condemnation and the denial.

Guilt is ultimately not going to save Johnny from his addiction, it isn’t working. Despair will save him and bring him to the point of admitting his addiction. Knowing that God loves him even though he is out of control will break him out of the self-destructive self-loathing that his conscience is pushing at him and is driving the addiction too. When he is finally able to repent, have self control, he will be able to forgive himself. Once forgives himself, he will no longer have doubt that God forgives him. In the mean time, Johnny’s conscience is telling him “God doesn’t love you, you are worthless”.

This is just an example, not a “typical” case. What is “typical” is that non-repentance makes it very difficult to forgive ourselves. Our consciences are tough, and they should be!

 

[OneSheep]

I put “us” in bold as a clarification.

“Us” guys and gals are not the created founders of the human species.

“Us” have real human parents who had real human parents – which leads to the obvious fact that “Us” are not the original founders of humankind.

The real, first founder of humankind is the first fully-complete human person biblically known as Adam. He with his spouse transmitted their human nature to their human descendants, of which we are.

Okay, but did I say something contrary to this? This is what I don’t get about your analysis of my statements. Are you thinking that because I don’t believe there was a “fall”, that I don’t believe there was an Adam and Eve? That God didn’t create us?

Obviously,
there will be contradiction problems, including mishaps when it comes to spirituality in humans, when Catholic teachings about the first created human Adam are ignored.

:sad_yes:

Here again, I will reclarify. I didn’t run into contradiction problems because I first decided I don’t believe the Catholic teachings about Adam!

What happened was that I found, through the gospel, and verified in my own personal relationship with God, that God loves unconditionally, and then realized that the standard interpretation of the story of Adam contradicts unconditional love.

Here is the “Catholic Answer” from my corner, from one sheep:

1. God loves and forgives us unconditionally.
2. If you see something in the Bible or in the CCC that appears to contradict #1, get it reclarified by an authority (this is the best thing to do, talk to a priest or sister!), ignore it, redefine it, or do whatever it takes until it all make sense. Whatever you do, remember #1, it is the underlying Truth.

 

[OneSheep]

The creation story depicts a loving God Who, when He is scorned…

From the online dictionary:
scorn (skôrn)
n.
1.
a. Contempt or disdain felt toward a person or object considered despicable or unworthy.
b. The expression of such an attitude in behavior or speech; derision.
2. One spoken of or treated with contempt.
v. scorned, scorn·ing, scorns
v.tr.

1. To consider or treat as contemptible or unworthy.
2. To reject or refuse with derision. See Synonyms at despise.
   v.intr.
   To express contempt; scoff.

To scorn is not to forgive. “Scorn” is what our conscience does to us when we misbehave. “Scorn” does not reflect unconditional love.

 

[fhansen]

Why did God create us with the desires for status, dominance, and control (which are the more resented aspects of “pride”)?

Pride, dominance, arrogance, over-control, manipulation, self-righteousness-all the things that cause problems in this world-are considered to be disorders; pride is inordinate self-love, and likewise lust is inordinate sexual appetite, gluttony inordinate desire for food, materialism inordinate desire for the things we otherwise need. God is opposed to disorder in His universe because of the harm it causes. All evil, IOW, is simply a disordered or perverted good, something that lies outside His will, all made possible by our free will, I.e. our God-given freedom to act independent of His will.

 

[bilop]

Jesus Christ forgave an unrepentant crowd from the cross.

Since God loves us unconditionally, and forgiveness is an act of love, God forgives unconditionally. Repentance is not a condition imposed.

However, there is place for the statement “forgiveness requires repentance”. First of all, forgiveness itself is an act of repentance from our compulsion to carry a grudge. Secondly, it is extremely difficult to forgive if we do not repent, and I will give this example:

Let’s say Johnny is an addict. He is in denial of his addiction, because his conscience beats him up so much about it if he acknowledges it. Denial is his automatic blindness, saving him from possible suicide. He is out of control. Johnny is going to have a real tough time forgiving himself, because the lack of control over the problem “pushes” the self-condemnation and the denial.

Guilt is ultimately not going to save Johnny from his addiction, it isn’t working. Despair will save him and bring him to the point of admitting his addiction. Knowing that God loves him even though he is out of control will break him out of the self-destructive self-loathing that his conscience is pushing at him and is driving the addiction too. When he is finally able to repent, have self control, he will be able to forgive himself. Once forgives himself, he will no longer have doubt that God forgives him. In the mean time, Johnny’s conscience is telling him “God doesn’t love you, you are worthless”.

This is just an example, not a “typical” case. What is “typical” is that non-repentance makes it very difficult to forgive ourselves. Our consciences are tough, and they should be!

No, Jesus prayed to the Father to forgive them, which of course He would, if they repented.

Forgiving ourselves has nothing to do with salvation. If you sin, and repent and go to confession, you are forgiven whether or not you continue to beat yourself up for the sin. You can go to the grave convinced you are worthless, but as long are you repent and are properly absolved, you will achieve salvation.

God Bless

 

[grannymh]

Okay, but did I say something contrary to this? This is what I don’t get about your analysis of my statements. Are you thinking that because I don’t believe there was a “fall”, that I don’t believe there was an Adam and Eve? That God didn’t create us?

Pardon me. May I gently point out that a personal analysis of *anyone’s *thinking was not involved.

All I did was answer a simple question… finally…

The question was: Why did God create us with the desires for status, dominance, and control (which are the more resented aspects of “pride”)?

The answer demonstrates the need to first consider Original Sin as a demarcation line between human nature pre-Fall and post-Fall. Here is the answer which, by the way, does not refer to personal thinking. Instead it is based on Catholic teaching. Obviously, it is permitted to have personal thinking coincide with Catholic teachings.

The answer from post 258
I put “us” in bold as a clarification.

“Us” guys and gals are not the created founders of the human species.

“Us” have real human parents who had real human parents – which leads to the obvious fact that “Us” are not the original founders of humankind.

The real, first founder of humankind is the first fully-complete human person biblically known as Adam. He with his spouse transmitted their human nature to their human descendants, of which we are.

Obviously,
there will be contradiction problems, including mishaps when it comes to spirituality in humans, when Catholic teachings about the first created human Adam and Original Sin are ignored.

:sad_yes:

Catholic teachings have already been presented in various posts by a number of posters. Catholic teachings will continue to be presented as time permits.

In the years since I landed on CAF, there has been a huge variety of contradiction problems posted in various CAF Forums. There was no need to name a specific one or a specific person – thus, I used a general designation of the widespread truth of dissension.

It is also a well-known fact that in general, many, not all, Catholics have received only a partial education regarding Original Sin. As far as I can personally figure out, one of the key missing points is what exactly was entailed in the maintenance of humankind’s relationship with Divinity before the Fall.

We talk about human spirituality in order to learn how to improve our own walk with God. In my humble opinion, we need to remove the blinders, not naming any person, which at times, not always, inhibit a true understanding of our true spirituality, including our conscience.

 

[simpleas]

Right, I do believe this! For example, I had a lot of trouble forgiving Osama bin Laden. I knew that I could forgive him someday, and I knew that God forgave him, but I couldn’t - yet. The element of control is so very important. That is why it is so extremely difficult, for example, for Palestinians and Israelis to forgive each other. When a situation seems out of control and there is no hope for better, the mind (conscience) keeps “pushing” the condemnation. Forgiveness is possible, but very difficult.

Your seeing that you cannot imagine God not forgiving someone is a gift from God. It means that you have forgiven everyone, and the ability to forgive is a gift. You will have plenty of opportunities to continue using this gift, though. If you are like me, you will continue to judge others. It is our nature.

Your explanation is so much simpler, and so much better.

All power comes from God. Our functioning conscience says “their use of power in that way is unacceptable.” and our conscience serves in helping us correct the behavior. However, there is no such thing as someone hurting someone else with full knowledge of what they are doing! Hitler is a perfect example. Hitler condemned the Jewish people in Germany, for a number of reasons. When we condemn, our brains automatically devalue (dehumanize) the people we condemn. Hitler wasn’t, in his mind, killing people, he was destroying something he saw as less than mosquitoes. I am just as capable of thinking that someone is of so little value. I saw this in the Nazis, in “terrorists”. It is an illusion. Hitler was destroying what he saw as evil. I know it is hard to believe, but it is true.

I’m sorry, but I am still a little confused by this question, “where does the teaching that we must confess sins to obtain God’s forgiveness leave us?” Perhaps you could clarify a little.

Are you wondering if God will forgive you if you have your own personal thoughts about how God will treat us, or are you wondering if the Church or other people will condemn your personal thoughts? If you are wondering about God, well, I think you have already answered that above. If you are wondering about the Church, or other people, then you need to be aware of this, about the “sin of presumption”:

2092 There are two kinds of presumption. Either man presumes upon his own capacities, (hoping to be able to save himself without help from on high), or he presumes upon God’s almighty power or his mercy (hoping to obtain his forgiveness without conversion and glory without merit).

There are those in the Church who believe that God does not forgive unconditionally, and will use this section to condemn those who do. There is plenty of “middle ground” though. For instance, we can say that God forgives people and sends them to hell anyway, if hell is a spiritual bootcamp, a temporary place. Or, we can say that “merit” is a perceived thing, and I can certainly prove that all people have merit. On the other hand, would heaven be heaven if the blind and ignorant people there cause the same chaos as they do today? That doesn’t make any sense either to my human mind, though I do have to admit that “with God, all things are possible”. Until I can figure out how it works otherwise, to me there has to be some kind of purging process, a process by which people’s blindness is cured and ignorance abated.

Do you see how people, myself included, conclude that some people’s interpretation of the “sin of presumption” contradicts what Jesus did from the cross, forgiving the unrepentant? Don’t get me wrong, though, most of what the CCC says about the sin of presumption makes sense to me, and I think should be part of our informed conscience.

In my little compendium of the ccc one question is this :
Why do we say “Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us”?
Answer :
By asking God the father to pardon us, we acknowledge before him that we are sinners. At the same time we proclaim his mercy because in his son and through the sacraments “we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins” (colossians 1:14) Still our petition will be answered only if we for our part have forgiven first.

So my explanation is wrong, if i’m reading the above correctly the ccc tells us God will only forgive us if we have forgiven first. So if we fail to forgive, then God will not forgive us?

People who don’t believe our religion could go to heaven without ever receiving any sacraments, could this be true? So why would the church tell us we need to receive the sacraments in order to enter heaven.

 

[bilop]

People who don’t believe our religion could go to heaven without ever receiving any sacraments, could this be true? So why would the church tell us we need to receive the sacraments in order to enter heaven.

It is possible to get to Heaven without Christ and Church (through Invincible ignorance), though very very difficult. It’s much easier to be saved when you have access to the Gospel, Church and Sacraments.

It’s like jumping out of a 8th floor window. You *could * survive, but it’s a lot safer to take the stairs.

The Church is telling us to take the stairs. Some people still fall down the stairs, but the odds are a lot better.

God Bless

 

[OneSheep]

No, Jesus prayed to the Father to forgive them, which of course He would, if they repented.

Forgiving ourselves has nothing to do with salvation. If you sin, and repent and go to confession, you are forgiven whether or not you continue to beat yourself up for the sin. You can go to the grave convinced you are worthless, but as long are you repent and are properly absolved, you will achieve salvation.

God Bless

Hmmm.

Let’s do some investigating.

Mark 11:25

New International Version (NIV)

25 And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.”

So, your translation of this would be "if you hold anything against anyone and they repent, forgive them…
Or, God asks us to forgive when He wouldn’t. This appears to be a rather extensive addition.

And when Jesus said:

Luke 23:34

New International Version (NIV)

34 Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.

You are saying that Jesus had not forgiven them, and is asking God to forgive them if they repent. This, again, I think is pushing the verse a little far.

And when Jesus said to forgive our enemies, forgive people seventy times seven times, etc. He either only meant to forgive them if they repent, or again, God asks us to forgive even in cases that He wouldn’t.

And when we pray “forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us” we are really praying “forgive us our trespasses only if we repent, and we will forgive those who trespass against us if they repent.”

There is a place for such forgiveness, it is called Orthodox Judaism. This is not Catholicism.

However, as I mentioned before, there is some truth to “God will only forgive you if you forgive.” The priest whose Bible study I went to said that Jesus was speaking to people who took their emotional connections to God very closely. If they were happy, God was smiling at them. If they were sad, God had been ignoring them. If they felt guilty, God had not forgiven them. If we do not forgive everyone, we will not know God’s forgiveness, it is a matter of psychological projection. God always forgives, but we will not comprehend the forgiveness if we do not, ourselves, forgive.

Have you tried forgiving people who have not repented? I know, your conscience says it is wrong. Jesus does not say it is wrong. Try forgiving the unrepentant!

God Bless you too.

 

[vames]

Okay, you just started a such a group. Count me in.

I think you started it, so I should say “count me in”
By the way, thanks for posting elsewhere Richard Rohr’s “Sadness”. I had come across his name when I was struggling with the idea of Atonement, so you can figure out what kind of discovery was to find out about the whole theory about the “primacy of Christ”.

OneSheep:

So, did you come to a point of forgiving Adam and Eve?

Like I said in the other thread, I don’t see the point of forgiving two obviously immature people, totally blinded by their curiosity and appetite. If my Catechism tells me they were immortal and did not know death, how can I be upset with them for having instantly forgotten about the death threat issued by God when they saw that the fruit was “good to eat, and fair to the eyes, and delightful to behold”? I think each of us remembers various instances when we couldn’t stop to remember that X or Y is a sin and then, years later, we wondered “what was I thinking?” and regretted or sometimes just laughed at our much younger selves.

OneSheep:

But is any force ever a “bad” force? All the forces come from God, their “badness” is the illusion caused by my own resentment.

That was me incorrectly mixing the resource with its abuse, for the sake of saying it in fewer words. I was thinking that pretty any good thing can turn into its opposite, so to speak, if excess is involved. Like when someone is very curious about some theory (good thing), so he uses his vacation to search and study (good thing) and he’s so confiscated by his research, that he ends up by neglecting the need to rest and sleep and to do other things, so he feels the nasty effects of sleep deprivation, his fridge is empty and the house is a mess (bad things).

OneSheep:

To me, it is not the violence of Jesus’ death that is as moving as His forgiveness of the unrepentant, His showing us how to forgive, and His showing us the Father’s unconditional love. The violence is part of the latter, I think.

A part of the latter, indeed. The violence of Jesus’ death is the very thing that can violently dislocate our ossified thinking and make it able to get His message. He forgave the crowd precisely while He was painfully dying on the cross, not as an old man lying peacefully in his bed or as a transfigured man before the Ascension.

OneSheep:

Hmmm. Gone were the days that Peter understood the forgiveness of Jesus? Maybe, but how does one reverse understanding?

Good question. Perhaps he (and his church) felt threatened, so his defence instincts were more powerful; perhaps he was just ill-tempered, so he reacted without thinking enough. Or perhaps because universal forgiveness is quite counterintuitive and even the first Christians found it difficult to assimilate and practice it all the time. But the writer of the story had already included a supernatural element whose function was to show that it’s wrong to test God’s patience, because the outcome is prompt punishment, so Peter couldn’t act much differently

 

[grannymh]

It is possible to get to Heaven without Christ and Church (through Invincible ignorance), though very very difficult. It’s much easier to be saved when you have access to the Gospel, Church and Sacraments.

It’s like jumping out of a 8th floor window. You *could *survive, but it’s a lot safer to take the stairs.

The Church is telling us to take the stairs. Some people still fall down the stairs, but the odds are a lot better.

God Bless

Christ said that He was the Way which is the fulfillment of God’s forgiveness of Adam. (Genesis 3:15; CCC, 410-411)

How about having the stairs, the Way of Christ, going up to joy eternal.

With Christ as the Good Shepherd, there is no need for individuals to rework the meanings of Original Sin. The results of Original Sin will always exist no matter how many speculations avoid them. (CCC, 396-409) While those paragraphs are a tough read, those who are really interested in Catholicism will find good information in them.

For a complete understanding it is recommended to study paragraphs 355-421.

 

[simpleas]

It is possible to get to Heaven without Christ and Church (through Invincible ignorance), though very very difficult. It’s much easier to be saved when you have access to the Gospel, Church and Sacraments.

It’s like jumping out of a 8th floor window. You *could * survive, but it’s a lot safer to take the stairs.

The Church is telling us to take the stairs. Some people still fall down the stairs, but the odds are a lot better.

God Bless

Ha, thanks i like this answer. But are you sure people can enter heaven without first believing in Jesus, none of us have been, and the message i get from the church teachings of jesus is he said noone can come to the father except through me (or words to that effect)
So it must only mean that, people who believe in Jesus, not just catholic, they too will enter heaven.

 

[simpleas]

Christ said that He was the Way which is the fulfillment of God’s forgiveness of Adam. (Genesis 3:15; CCC, 410-411)

How about having the stairs, the Way of Christ, going up to joy eternal.

With Christ as the Good Shepherd, there is no need for individuals to rework the meanings of Original Sin. The results of Original Sin will always exist no matter how many speculations avoid them. (CCC, 396-409) While those paragraphs are a tough read, those who are really interested in Catholicism will find good information in them.

For a complete understanding it is recommended to study paragraphs 355-421.

The first line you write, does this mean God didn’t forgive his people until Jesus’ ressurrection, or that God was forgiving his people through the generations until he sent Jesus to complete it?
I still struggle, I see it as when Adam sinned, Jesus is sent to take away the sins of the world, therefore shouldn’t the O.S have been wiped away. Its like we have been left to struggle with our sins, yes, we call on christ to help us, but its always there, maybe not in act, but in our thoughts.

I don’t think i will ever work this out in my mind, but i’ll keep trying

 

[grannymh]

Ha, thanks i like this answer. But are you sure people can enter heaven without first believing in Jesus, none of us have been, and the message i get from the church teachings of jesus is he said noone can come to the father except through me (or words to that effect)
So it must only mean that, people who believe in Jesus, not just catholic, they too will enter heaven.

There is only one Jesus.

With that in mind, it is apparent that since Jesus died for all and since each person is called to the one and same destiny which is union with God, presently and after bodily death – the Catholic Church teaches that the Holy Spirit offers to everyone, regardless of geographical location, the real possibility of being made partakers,** in a way known to God,** of the Paschal mystery. (CCC, 1260)

The Paschal Mystery/Sacrifice is Christ’s work of redemption accomplished principally by His passion, death, resurrection, and glorious ascension. (CCC, Glossary, page 891)

 

[grannymh]

First line from granny’s post 269
Christ said that He was the Way which is the fulfillment of God’s forgiveness of Adam. (Genesis 3:15; CCC, 410-411)

The first line you write, does this mean God didn’t forgive his people until Jesus’ ressurrection, or that God was forgiving his people through the generations until he sent Jesus to complete it?

Neither.

The sentence refers to the fact that our forgiving God sent Jesus, the Way and the Truth and the Life, as the Redeemer Whose obedience would atone for Adam’s disobedience. (John 14: 6; Romans 5: 12-21; 1Corinthians 15: 21-22; paragraphs 396-398 in the* Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition).*

One of the many overlooked Scripture verses is Genesis 3: 9. One of the problems with denying the reality of Original Sin is that the spiritual gems in those first three chapters are lost…just when we need them the most…

One of the many things important for our own spiritual walk with God is that we know God will not abandon us.

Our forgiving God did not abandon Adam when he deliberately, with full knowledge, shattered humanity’s relationship with Divinity. God looked for Adam, calling out to him. At the same time that God was seeking Adam to comfort him, in justice, Adam and Eve suffered the results of Original Sin. When we feel we are in a bottomless pit, God continues to call us through the Sacrament of Reconciliation and the Sacrament of the Eucharist at the same time we are suffering. The Good Shepherd seeking us does not remove our responsibility for our actions.

In practical terms, we cannot look at the true Original Sin without seeing Christ hanging bloody on a cross.