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Isaac14
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Surely you can’t be serious? Priests certainly aren’t free to disobey their bishop, bishops aren’t free to ignore their synod, etc. etc.
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OrbisNonSufficit
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Of course. But that applies to Protestantism too… or at least some more traditional forms of Protestantism. Anglicans for example.
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Isaac14
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Gotcha. The Catholic position is that the Orthodox are Protestants. Nice.
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OrbisNonSufficit
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When did I say that? When did I claim that it is Catholic position? Please do not twist my words.
I made personal observation on fact that there is no authority that is infallible today. I thought that is also Orthodox position? That tradition forms over time hence one can not even declare Council Ecumenical until years have passed to see whether it was Ecumenical or Robber Council? This is supported by Orthodox view on historical Ecumenical and Robber Councils too. I don’t think there is anything offensive in that.
Other than Scriptures, I mentioned Orthodoxy also holds Tradition as infallible. Hence “Sola Traditia” is better name for Orthodoxy. It is similar to how Sedevacantism works currently- but not identical.
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Isaac14
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You said the Orthodox have no authority. I cited examples which you said are no different than what Protestants have.
More correct would be to say there is no authority that is infallible (no single bishop, patriarch, synod) at a moment’s notice. The witness of scripture, traditions, ecumenical councils, church fathers, is indeed recognized over time to be infallible. All of these things are understood over time and Orthodoxy continues to prefer to take its time to understand the matter hand rather than make hasty pronouncements.
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OrbisNonSufficit
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Yes, in terms of authority. I did not call Orthodox Protestant though. Never claimed it is Catholic position either.
Isn’t that exactly the same?
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Isaac14
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You really think authority is exercised the same in the Orthodox & various Protestant churches?
Forgive me, but when you seemingly make the statement that how authority is exercised in the Orthodox Church is the same as Protestants I’m not sure what to do with that lack of distinction.
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Margaret_Ann
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WOW. I didn’t know that. Do you have a source? I’d like to see it.
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ziapueblo
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Wrong! We believe in Holy Tradition which consist of the 7 Councils, the Creed, the Liturgy, the writings of the Fathers and sacred Scripture.
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ThomasMT
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So why is it then that different Eastern Orthodox churchs have fundamental disagreements, even downright refusals to recognize each others practices? Why would that be 
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ThomasMT
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Has anything been expressed that contradicts Church teaching?
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Isaac14
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Do you have an example in mind?So why is it then that different Eastern Orthodox churchs have fundamental disagreements, even downright refusals to recognize each others practices? Why would that be
Would it contradict Catholic Church teaching to have or express a mistaken opinion/position regarding the Eastern Orthodox Church?
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ziapueblo
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Do we? What fundamental disagreements do we have? What do we refuse to recognize in each others practices?
@Isaac14 is OCA and I am GOA. We do not have any disagreements on practice or doctrine.
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PilgrimMichelangelo
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The first is a pastoral article that stretches economia to the point of disregarding the Canons entirely, while the second article from the OCA website is much more within the usual use of economia in the Church today. At least in my parish we strongly encourage non-Orthodox christians to convert if they are getting married in the Church, but if that is too much for them, then that couple may speak with the Bishop about their situation. I know of one such couple that got a blessing from the Bishop to marry despite her attending a Southern Baptist community and he being a convert to Orthodoxy.
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Margaret_Ann
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Thank you. The first link didn’t mention the prohibition but the second did.
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OrbisNonSufficit
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When it comes to exercising authority, as with many other things, term “Protestant” is folly. But I think there are certain Protestant denominations that at least closely resemble Orthodox system.
So do Anglicans for example.
Similarity lies in fact there is no present infallible Magisterium. What’s exactly difference between Anglican, traditional Lutheran and Orthodox systems of authority?
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Isaac14
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Ultimately what you seem to be saying is that Orthodox aren’t Protestant, but in reality there’s no difference. If that’s not what you’re saying, why don’t you spell it out?
Would it be better to your thinking if we Orthodox decided to have our own infallible Pope?
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OrbisNonSufficit
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In terms of authority that currently (relative to time of observation) exists, Orthodox and some more traditional Protestants work the same.
Let’s take principle of Sola Scriptura vs Catholic view. Sola Scriptura says that Scripture itself is sufficient and doesn’t provide authentic interpretation. Catholic Church provides way of authentic interpretation through living Magisterium.
Now let’s take principle of “solely Tradition”. Anglicans, Sedevacantists and Orthodox all say that Ecumenical Councils, Church Fathers and Scripture are infallible- which we agree with. But they provide no authentic way to Infallibility interpret those Church Fathers, Ecumenical Councils and Scripture. Catholic Church does provide that.
See the parallel?
I didn’t say anything about other aspects such as validity of Sacraments or understanding of faith etc. I never said Orthodoxy is equal to Protestantism in every regard.
Please don’t take offense when I compare Orthodoxy and Protestantism in some aspect. In reality (traditional) Protestant form of Church government was somewhat inspired by Orthodoxy historically. I am not saying Orthodox are Protestants simply claiming you are alike in this aspect. Fact you take offense that I dare compare Orthodoxy and Protestantism is also highly disrespectful of Protestants too. It is factual comparison that matters in this regard- not that you don’t like the other side.
We Catholics are like Jehovah’s Witnesses in that we are also humans. True? Yes. Did I say Catholics are Jehovah’s Witnesses? Far from it.
Well I am Catholic and I believe Catholic ecclesiology to be not only efficient but more importantly correct so yes. But it would also bring huge problems to Orthodox tradition of rejecting Papacy and understanding of ecclesiology and would basically prove Catholicism correct from historical perspective (something I wouldn’t dislike either heh).
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ziapueblo
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According to the Catholic Church, we Orthodox have valid apostolic succession. That’s the difference!
First time I’ve heard someone say that the Orthodox are Bible alone Christians!
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OrbisNonSufficit
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That’s completely true, but what does that have to do with system of authority?
I would say “Ecumenical Councils, Church Fathers and Scripture” aloneFirst time I’ve heard someone say that the Orthodox are Bible alone Christians!
Point is that there is no immediate infallible way to interpret them. That is how Orthodoxy works, correct?
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