Our Next President

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Scott_Lafrance said:
Seriously. Social justice is just code for “steal money from people who we deem have too much and give it to people who don’t deserve it so that they will vote for us”.
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My, my. Someone should instruct the bishops, pronto!
 
seekerz said:
Social justice is funny? Thanks for reminding me why I can’t identify with today’s conservative thought.
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Social justice and socialism are not one in the same.The Catholic Church supports the former and rejects the latter.
 
Jeanne_S said:
Social justice and socialism are not one in the same.The Catholic Church supports the former and rejects the latter.
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You are correct, but as I read it, Seekerz wasn’t at all speaking of socialism. 🤷
 
Seamus_L said:
I’ll vote 3rd party in November, and if that in any way contributes to the re-election of Barack Obama, then let’s get to that showdown sooner than later. Conservatives like to forget that during the 8 year presidency of Ronald Reagan, the 8 years of GW and the 4 of Bush Sr, we couldn’t do a thing to stop abortion, anti-Christian and pro-homosexual legislation wasn’t slowed down, and American industry declined severely. Electing Mitt Romney in November won’t in anyway take this country off the collision course it’s on.
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During George W Bush’s presidency the abortion rate went down 8.1% from data from all 50 states:

jillstanek.com/archives/2009/05/correction_abor.html
Interestingly, both the Guttmacher Institute and the CDC now have released abortion data for 2000 and 2008. Both datasets indicate that the number of abortions performed in America declined during the George W. Bush administration.
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lifenews.com/2012/01/05/cdc-data-shows-abortions-declined-during-bush-administration

lifenews.com/2011/11/18/kathleen-kennedy-townsend-wrong-on-partisanship-abortion

George W Bush enacted many pro life laws that have been reversed by Barack Obama.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
Yikes! Of whom are you speaking, Christine??? You use “we,” yet I was addressing the subject, not any particular individuals or groups (you seem to think that I was referring to the GOP, which I was NOT.) There was no reason to personalize the subject.

I’m upset that the U.S. offers less overall in the way of health care to the poor and middle class than do so many more other countries. We ought to be at the top of the list, not #24.

That said, carry on beating me about the head and shoulders.
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Rich, the poor and elderly have access to free healthcare. If they don’t utilize it, there isn’t much more you can do. There has to be some expectation of personal responsibility, moreso as income increases.
 
seekerz said:
Social justice is funny? Thanks for reminding me why I can’t identify with today’s conservative thought.
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No. Social justice is such an amorphous term that it can mean anything to anyone, thus rendering it impotent as a useful term in political dialog.
 
Jeanne_S said:
Social justice and socialism are not one in the same.The Catholic Church supports the former and rejects the latter.
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(I know Seekerz was not speaking about socialism).

Social Justice has nothing to do with socialism. I read that socialism has been condemned by nearly every Pope since the 19th century. Catholic Church has taught the government should have a ‘safety net’ but has been a critic of modern welfare state.

Blessed Pope John Paul II wrote in his 1991 encyclical Centesimus Annus:

[D]efects in the Social Assistance State are the result of an inadequate understanding of the tasks proper to the State. Here again the principle of subsidiarity must be respected: a community of a higher order should not interfere in the internal life of a community of a lower order, depriving the latter of its functions, but rather should support it in case of need and help to coordinate its activity with the activities of the rest of society, always with a view to the common good. By intervening directly and depriving society of its responsibility, the Social Assistance State leads to a loss of human energies and an inordinate increase of public agencies, which are dominated more by bureaucratic thinking than by concern for serving their clients, and which are accompanied by an enormous increase in spending.
 
qui_est_ce said:
And your President Obama is all for tax payer funded elective abortions, so please explain your outrage.
, Yes, Catholics, not the government. And there plenty of wealthy Democrats getting tax breaks too. I could help the poor a lot more if I didn’t have to pay so much taxes to a bureaucratic crony government.
This has been done under Reagan, and it doesn’t work.
Unions don’t help workers. They are a front for the Democratic party.
The so-called “torture” of one or two Islam extremists who want to kill us all trumps the murder of millions of innocent babies? Did you know that our servicemen are also subject to waterboarding (and gassing) as part of their training.

And for your information, there are a lot of Republicans who are against the death penalty.

Keeping the death penalty choice is not part of the Republican platform. Keeping abortion legal is part of the Democratic platform.
And now Obama will see to it that abortion rights will be expanded to cover the entire country. His pro-abortion ideology has already expanded to foreign nations by his repeal of the Mexico City Policy.
Who is hate filled here? We hate Obama’s policies, not the man. In our mass, we pray for President Obama every day. There are plenty of rosary intentions as well.
Agree
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I will just deal with one point in your post: that of taxpayer funded elective abortions. I would assume that in exercising conscience with regard to choosing a political candidate, Catholics are supposed to look both at intent and actions, both direct and indirect, no? Please, if you will, point us to the presidential candidate who has acted to make taxpayer-funded elective abortions available in America?

There is much more that could be said about abortion, as regards Romney’s religious beliefs, however it seems from your post that Pastor Wright spoke for Obama, while Mormon doctrine does not similarly speak for Romney. We get the different standards, no need to clarify.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
No. Social justice is such an amorphous term that it can mean anything to anyone, thus rendering it impotent as a useful term in political dialog.
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Oh, so if I say reproductive health is a term that can mean anything to anyone, would that mean we could stop talking about it?
 
Charlotte408 said:
**Santorum 2012. **
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To be honest, I am quite impressed with the 60% of people on this forum who support either Santorum or Paul (i.e., “Other”) for president. That shows what a real problem Romney is for a Republican-Catholic voter. Its the same problem Democratic-Catholic voters have with Obama.

I don’t like everything Obama stands for, but I would never vote for Romney.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
Yikes! Of whom are you speaking, Christine??? You use “we,” yet I was addressing the subject, not any particular individuals or groups (you seem to think that I was referring to the GOP, which I was NOT.) There was no reason to personalize the subject.

I’m upset that the U.S. offers less overall in the way of health care to the poor and middle class than do so many more other countries. We ought to be at the top of the list, not #24.

That said, carry on beating me about the head and shoulders.
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Sorry Rich. You were responding to Bellasbane’s diatribe about us evil conservatives who don’t care about the poor. I guess I misdirected my post. :o
 
Bocephus said:
Rich, the poor and elderly have access to free healthcare. If they don’t utilize it, there isn’t much more you can do. There has to be some expectation of personal responsibility, moreso as income increases.
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Oh? What about the sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars in bills they can accumulate? Also, the amount of “free” is limited. Catholic hospitals in NYC, e.g., have gone out of business providing care to those without insurance. Personal responsibility goes just so far if you are hit with a catastrophic illness or injury and you have no insurance or no large amount of funds accumulated.
 
seekerz said:
I will just deal with one point in your post: that of taxpayer funded elective abortions. I would assume that in exercising conscience with regard to choosing a political candidate, Catholics are supposed to look both at intent and actions, both direct and indirect, no? Please, if you will, point us to the presidential candidate who has acted to make taxpayer-funded elective abortions available in America?
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Obama back Sibelius’s mandate.
There is much more that could be said about abortion, as regards Romney’s religious beliefs, however it seems from your post that Pastor Wright spoke for Obama, while Mormon doctrine does not similarly speak for Romney. We get the different standards, no need to clarify.
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I never mentioned Pastor Wright, I have never heard any of his sermons. I have no idea what you are talking about.
 
Jeanne_S said:
Social justice and socialism are not one in the same.The Catholic Church supports the former and rejects the latter.
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I don’t remember implying an equivalence between social justice and socialism.

After the '08 campaign I did find that socialism’s meaning changed to one that could be applied to any policy which entailed mandatory contributions to the common good…Funny, I used to think it meant losing (to the government) the right to control one’s personal possessions/livelihood; now I think it just means “you can’t make me share unless I feel good and ready to do it for whom I choose, when I choose and as often or as rarely as I choose, because everything I own either came from the work of my hands or dropped ready-made out of the sky”.
 
_Abyssinia said:
During George W Bush’s presidency the abortion rate went down 8.1% from data from all 50 states:

jillstanek.com/archives/2009/05/correction_abor.html

lifenews.com/2012/01/05/cdc-data-shows-abortions-declined-during-bush-administration

lifenews.com/2011/11/18/kathleen-kennedy-townsend-wrong-on-partisanship-abortion

George W Bush enacted many pro life laws that have been reversed by Barack Obama.
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Please don’t resort to proving your point with silly things like facts!😃
 
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