Our school is imposing the rosary

[ProVobis]

pn, I guess I missed that one.

I was taught it was okay to ask her to intercede for us but not pray to her in the sense that she has the power to grant us our wishes. I guess it’s a matter of semantics and translation.

 

[Memaw]

pn, I guess I missed that one.

I was taught it was okay to ask her to intercede for us but not pray to her in the sense that she has the power to grant us our wishes. I guess it’s a matter of semantics and translation.

Whatever ‘power’ she has, (and I don’t underestimate that one bit) comes from the graces God gives her. She knows her role in our lives perfectly. She has known it from her beginning. God Bless, Memaw

 

[pnewton]

pn, I guess I missed that one.

I was taught it was okay to ask her to intercede for us but not pray to her in the sense that she has the power to grant us our wishes. I guess it’s a matter of semantics and translation.

Yes, it is a matter of semantics, going back to what exactly “praying” means. In its most basic usage, it is asking. We legally pray to the court, for example. She can grant our requests, but has not power. Mary has no way of even knowing our prayers apart from the omniscience of God. All power comes from Him alone. All grace comes from Him alone. Mary intercedes for us, but only because God has sanctified and given authority to that intercession.

Mary may be the prime example, but she is not unique. Think of Peter whose shadow healed and who was able to raise the dead. Mary is more alive now in Heaven than Peter was then. Yet in both, it is God that is the source of all grace. Consider the many that have been healed by the water at Lourdes. The substance is mundane water. Yet God has sanctified the water for His purposes.

For our Protestant brothers, especially those of the holiness variety, when one is healed by the laying on of hands, are the hands of the healer the source of power? No. It is God who heals through those hands. Yet at some point, the one desiring healing had to have the faith to go to a man, like himself and have those hands laid on him. Now since we believe in the resurrection, is not Mary more alive than any of us and closer now to her son than any that walk on Earth?* All *generations shall call her blessed. That means even today, she is our blessed lady.

 

[ProVobis]

Whatever ‘power’ she has, (and I don’t underestimate that one bit) comes from the graces God gives her. She knows her role in our lives perfectly. She has known it from her beginning. God Bless, Memaw

With all due respect, aren’t you confusing power and influence? Mary, for example, does not have the power to forgive sin or to consecrate, such as that given to priests by God.

 

[YADA]

So, you all agree that insincere prayers are valid, that children should be educated in repetitive prayers, and that such prayers are as valid as any others.

I think I understand.

**Joannm: **You obviously missed the point. Being forced to pray is immoral.

“but Mary makes up for what is lacking in my prayer. I too prefer to pray in my own words, but when I can’t, or when I just need the comfort of repetitive prayer, the Rosary is there.”
This is a simplistic attitude. Do you mean that you can’t find the words to pray? Really?

savedbygrace71: thanks for the anecdotes about your children. Thanks.Very.Much.

All of you, please answer this: is Marian Devotion required of the faithful or not? Not just “highly recommended” or any other do-nothing expression. Is it required of the faithful?

You say you have no problem with the Mass … many formulated prayers are part of the Mass … is it okay to force children to participate in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass? Is being forced to attend Mass immoral?

I think you are confused about prayers … Yes - some of our prayers should be individual and be formulated in our own words … mostly this is done individually - alone … in the cupboard or closet referred to in the scriptures … to a limited extent this can be done corporately with others… but almost all prayers still have a basic structure.

Many prayers are set in a liturgical setting - Liturgy is the public - the corporate - work of the Church and the people that make up the Church … in any setting - it is necessary for the prayers to belong to all and not just the whims of one individual …

The Rosary - in and of itself is “not required” but it is a treasure form antiquity - a family heirloom - part and parcel of our Catholic identity … More importantly - it is a prayer that helps us to love Jesus and come to know deeply what Jesus suffered for us - We learn about His life and His sacrifice … for us … The Rosary is very scriptural in its foundation and the purpose is to introduce us into the Mysteries and take us deeply into relationship with Christ … Why do you disrespect it so vehemently?

Which causes me to wonder … Why are you sending your children to a Catholic School when you appear to abhor Catholic practices in general and many in particular?

 

[ProVobis]

Now since we believe in the resurrection, is not Mary more alive than any of us and closer now to her son than any that walk on Earth?

True, but we also ask archangels to intercede for us.

 

[Memaw]

With all due respect, aren’t you confusing power and influence? Mary, for example, does not have the power to forgive sin or to consecrate, such as that given to priests by God.

NOW did I say anything like that??? I was quoting the one I responded to. I also think I did say, she knows her role in our lives. ‘perfectly’… I will paste it so you can read it again carefully.

Originally Posted by Memaw View Post
Whatever ‘power’ she has, (and I don’t underestimate that one bit) comes from the graces God gives her. She knows her role in our lives perfectly. She has known it from her beginning.

We shouldn’t put words in an other’s mouth. God Bless, Memaw

 

[YADA]

I can only thank you all for the diligence in your replies and admire your dedication to the Rosary.
The fact that I see little value in it is a personal issue and I would never reveal that to my students. Never.

I’ll exit the discussion now, as I don’t think I can add anything to it.

I see the issue now … you do not understand how to pray the Rosary … and it is your lack of understanding that is the issue … not the children …

Since you are the teacher- teach yourself how to meditate with the Rosary …

Your posts and the comments made on the difference between the Our Father and the Rosary is revealing … the Rosary is also very scriptural … plus you can use the scriptural passages referred to in the various mysteries as a preface to the 10 Mail Mary’s to help guide your meditations … you are not merely supposed to be repeating the words … you are supposed to be thinking about the mysteries … its a contemplative prayer …

If you would open your self to learn more about this form of prayer - you might find the purpose

Similarly - even our individual prayer must have some time for Christ to ‘speak’ to us … or all the spontaneous words we utter are meaningless …

 

[ProVobis]

NOW did I say anything like that??? I was quoting the one I responded to. I also think I did say, she knows her role in our lives. ‘perfectly’… I will paste it so you can read it again carefully.

Originally Posted by Memaw View Post
Whatever ‘power’ she has, (and I don’t underestimate that one bit) comes from the graces God gives her. She knows her role in our lives perfectly. She has known it from her beginning.

We shouldn’t put words in an other’s mouth. God Bless, Memaw

Then perhaps I misread your “and I don’t underestimate that one bit” clause?

 

[Elizium23]

If that was the only verse in the Bible, you would be right. Have you ever read the High Priestly Prayer of Jesus in the Gospel of John? Assuming that John wasn’t telepathic, Jesus prayed aloud. Do not take the path of Luther and write the word “only” in your Bible where it does not exist. Read beyond the one verse and add nothing. Jesus taught a way to pray, and even gave an example (not that the sinner prayed* aloud* and in the* Temple*).

Yet you show by example the danger of individual interpretation of scripture based on proof-texting. I would say one should not expect a Catholic school to be protestant.

There is more. Jesus unquestionably prayed this aloud because he was the successor of Zechariah. This is Zechariah the Aaronic priest, the father of John the Baptist. Zechariah was struck dumb because of his doubt in the Lord.

Luke 1:18-22
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
18 And Zachary said to the angel: Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife is advanced in years.
19 And the angel answering, said to him: I am Gabriel, who stand before God: and am sent to speak to thee, and to bring thee these good tidings.
20 And behold, thou shalt be dumb, and shalt not be able to speak until the day wherein these things shall come to pass, because thou hast not believed my words, which shall be fulfilled in their time.
21 And the people were waiting for Zachary; and they wondered that he tarried so long in the temple.
22 And when he came out, he could not speak to them: and they understood that he had seen a vision in the temple. And he made signs to them, and remained dumb.

Why was he struck dumb, and not blind or lame? So that he would be unable to confer the priestly blessing, as was his duty in the Temple at that time.

Zechariah was healed, but there is no record of him speaking the blessing. Why? Because Jesus speaks the blessing in his Farewell Discourse.

[BIBLEDRB]John 17:1-26[/BIBLEDRB]

Jesus is the fulfillment of the Mosaic Law and the rightful successor to the Priesthood, which no longer has need of a Temple or animal sacrifice, but now offers the Eucharist in remembrance of Christ’s final sacrifice on the Cross.

 

[Mark121359]

I apologize if someone already mentioned this, because I haven’t read all 11 pages of this thread. But it seems that many are wondering why the lack of respect or reverence for the Rosary or prayer in general. I believe that the OP’s opening paragraph in the very first post may hold the answer. In particular the bolded;

I have no problem with Catholic schools doing Catholic things: school Masses, retreats, daily prayer, occasional confession opportunities, a general focus on good living, compassion and generosity. We are good at those things, even though few students or staff are actually “Catholic” in the way they practise their faith.

Peace, Mark

 

[Dorothy]

The Holy Rosary, when one learns to pray it as best as one can, can open many great spiritual doors for the pray-er.

Holding on to Our Lady and our Lord Jesus Christ in the Rosary, may be the only means that a child can have spiritual awakening, in spite of how their parents practice the faith.

 

[Brendan_64]

I believe that the OP’s opening paragraph in the very first post may hold the answer. In particular the bolded;

We are good at those things, even though few students or staff are actually “Catholic” in the way they practise their faith

And that is probably why this school needs to pray the rosary.

A Catholic school where the staff do not practice in a very ‘Catholic’ way is a school that requires a greater emphasis on Catholic practices, not less.

A Catholic school should never promote a sort of ‘non-denominational’, practice as you see fit, with a general ‘fuzzy’ “be nice to your fellow man” approach. Catholic schools should be steeped in Catholic doctrine and practice, and this should be apparent from the moment you walk through the doors of the school. Catholic schools should never be ‘Catholic-light’.

 

[CyrilSebastian]

In the Catholic grade school I attended, we children would be asked to bring our rosaries in for a certain weekday.
Thus we knew in advance that we would be praying the Rosary.
We were taught to say the Rosary slowly.

 

[Memaw]

In the Catholic grade school I attended, we children would be asked to bring our rosaries in for a certain weekday.
Thus we knew in advance that we would be praying the Rosary.
We were taught to say the Rosary slowly.

I am glad you said “taught.” My CCD class and I said a decade of the Rosary before every weekly class and I don’t recall ever having any of the kids object. And I taught for 20 years. We discussed the Mystery before starting. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Holly3278]

There is nothing at all wrong with the Holy Rosary. In fact, it is the most beautiful and rich in graces of all prayers except for the Holy Mass and Our Lord’s Prayer. Here are some saint quotes on the Rosary:

‘If you say the Rosary faithfully until death, I do assure you that, in spite of the gravity of your sins “you shall receive a never-fading crown of glory.” Even if you are on the brink of damnation, even if you have one foot in hell, even if you have sold your soul to the devil as sorcerers do who practice black magic, and even if you are a heretic as obstinate as a devil, sooner or later you will be converted and will amend your life and save your soul, if - and mark well what I say - if you say the Rosary devoutly every day until death for the purpose of knowing the truth and obtaining contrition and pardon for your sins.’
–St. Louis Marie de Montfort

“The holy Rosary is a powerful weapon. Use it with confidence and you’ll be amazed at the results.”
–St. Josemaria Escriva’

“The Rosary is the ‘weapon’ for these times.”
–Saint Padre Pio

“Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world.”
–Saint Pope Pius IX

“The Rosary is the most beautiful and richest of all prayers to the Mediatrix of all grace; it is the prayer that touches most the heart of the Mother of God. Say it each day.”
–Pope Saint Pius X

“The Holy Rosary is the storehouse of countless blessings.”
–Blessed Alan de la Roche

“There is no problem, I tell you, no matter how difficult it is, that we cannot solve by the prayer of the Holy Rosary.”
–Sister Lucia, of the seers of Fatima

Also, Our lady gave 15 Promises to those who pray the Rosary:

ourladyswarriors.org/prayer/15promise.htm

So in short, I see absolutely nothing wrong with a Catholic school making the students to pray the Rosary. It is an amazing prayer. I know Our Lady has brought me many graces through praying the Rosary.

 

[identidem]

I agree that part of being in Catholic School is saying the Rosary and I have fond memories of saying the Rosary. Also, I find this very comforting to do with communal prayer dedicated to say the Rosary. Children need to learn the traditions of the Church. During wakes before the funeral, the Rosary is a comfort too. Knowing the right words and the significance of the Rosary is good for individuals.

In terms of tradition, I must add that Latin must be put into the Catholic grade schools so students can actually learn the official language of the Church or at least learn some Latin during K-8. Not only will this help students understand our Church beliefs and liturgy, our Catholic students will excel in English and Science through the learning process.

Identidem

 

[awsiukiewicz]

Wow…I don’t know that I could concisely expressed my response to yr comment…but.I will say that I respect your concerns and in particular appreciate yr comment regarding not having issue with those who have a Marian Devotion and summing it up by stating that 'its not just for you"…thats fine…but…and believe me I am trying to be genuinely loving in my comments…when you use terms like ‘repetitive’ and suggest some ‘rigidity’ with respect to ‘counting’ and perhaps mis counting…it saddens me a little…When Js gave his disciples the Pater Noster/Our Father…we can only imagine that it wasn’t meant to be prayed only once…the ancient fathers of the Church would pray all of the psalms…You are absoluely correct that prayer is indeed very ‘personal’…and who are we to portend to comprehend our Father in Heaven’s reception of our prayer albeit rote, spontaneous, hands raised, in Latin, French, German etc. I’m certain that if in fact…this was presented at yr child’s school as a ‘forced issue’ that they would apperciate yr wishes to not have yr child particpate…your right a Marian Devotion is not Dogmatic. I respectively suggest that you avail yrself of some literature regarding the history of the Rosary. I was taught that its akin to a mantra where we are saying , as we meditate on the Mysteries, which are scriptural, we are in effect saying…I love you…I love you…I love you…just as parent would be saying rocking their infant child in a rocker…sorry for the long thread…yr reference to Matthew may be taken a little out of context…some reference to people showing out for the public to see them pray…as opposed to praying in private…that’s cool…but don’t confuse that with praying in a group…(where 2 or 3 are gahered)…prbly in a Chapel…it can be a very beautiful group prayer…I am not being sarastic so please don’t perceive it as such…but I will offer my next Holy Rosary for you and your family…PAX

 

[Memaw]

Wow…I don’t know that I could concisely expressed my response to yr comment…but.I will say that I respect your concerns and in particular appreciate yr comment regarding not having issue with those who have a Marian Devotion and summing it up by stating that 'its not just for you"…thats fine…but…and believe me I am trying to be genuinely loving in my comments…when you use terms like ‘repetitive’ and suggest some ‘rigidity’ with respect to ‘counting’ and perhaps mis counting…it saddens me a little…When Js gave his disciples the Pater Noster/Our Father…we can only imagine that it wasn’t meant to be prayed only once…the ancient fathers of the Church would pray all of the psalms…You are absoluely correct that prayer is indeed very ‘personal’…and who are we to portend to comprehend our Father in Heaven’s reception of our prayer albeit rote, spontaneous, hands raised, in Latin, French, German etc. I’m certain that if in fact…this was presented at yr child’s school as a ‘forced issue’ that they would apperciate yr wishes to not have yr child particpate…your right a Marian Devotion is not Dogmatic. I respectively suggest that you avail yrself of some literature regarding the history of the Rosary. I was taught that its akin to a mantra where we are saying , as we meditate on the Mysteries, which are scriptural, we are in effect saying…I love you…I love you…I love you…just as parent would be saying rocking their infant child in a rocker…sorry for the long thread…yr reference to Matthew may be taken a little out of context…some reference to people showing out for the public to see them pray…as opposed to praying in private…that’s cool…but don’t confuse that with praying in a group…(where 2 or 3 are gahered)…prbly in a Chapel…it can be a very beautiful group prayer…I am not being sarastic so please don’t perceive it as such…but I will offer my next Holy Rosary for you and your family…PAX

Marian Devotion IS dogmatic. We MUST believe in the Immaculate Conception, Her saying “yes” to God, the Virgin Birth, the Assumption Etc. The Rosary is an extension of that Devotion. Most of it comes from the Bible!. If we have a ‘problem’ saying the Rosary, that is something we need to work on, not just put it down as unimportant or meaningless. The Blessed Mother herself requested we pray the Rosary every day. It brings us closer to Her SON. God Bless, Memaw

 

[hopefaithcharit]

As catholics, we are encouraged to pray the rosary because it is through Marys motherly intercession that we grow closer to her son… I think understanding the rosary bit more would help. The rosary is prayer on the whole life of Jesus… Before his birth, his life, his death and on his heavenly ascention and his mothers. The best form of the rosary is the one where you read ten thoughts about each mystery…after each brief sentence you then say the hail Mary thinking bout what you just read… This is scriptural rosary and my favorite. It brings you right to the moments of Mary and Jesus almost as if you are right there…so beautiful… The rosary prayer offers 15 blessings when said faithfully…it is a process. You don’t get there immediately/ all you need is a yearning and desire to love God more… Its so hard to try to tell someone the peace and love that we receive from this prayer…they have to want it… People often avoid what seems scarey or unknown… But in trying to be defensive, we limit ourselves from the endless love of God… Also, our lady of Fatima said we must pray the rosary… The miracle of the sun at Fatima was witnessed by over 80,000 to 100,000 people including athesists. Read about our blessed mother…She loves us more than any earthly mother ever could…and many of us can’t even comprehend that amount of of love.

www.theholyrosary.org/rosarybenefits.