Our Son refused by the priest.

[Irishgal49]

This is all so strange. Every church around here has the parents watch a couple videos and meet with a deacon or instructor who reviews what’s required of the parents once the child is baptized and the date is set. No haggling over whether you will be a perfect parent, if you want your child baptized, attend these two classes, schedule and date and do it. Even in a Catholic household there is no guarantee the child will be raised Catholic, the membership is leaving the Church in droves. Some Catholics only act Catholic on Sunday, there is no point in trying to be a booking agent and “guess the odds”. I’ve never seen a child refused as long as the parents attend the two classes and understand what this means–and that they will try to ensure their children are raised Catholic. All we can do is try. No one is perfect. I’d go to another church…never heard of this, “I’ll baptize one and not the other” even though the lifestyle is the same. No wonder everyone is leaving, so judgmental…everyone here is defending a rude and pompous priest. Outrageous. He makes no effort to invite this couple into the faith. YOU are reading that into it. When I was returning to the faith the priest was very rude and not at all welcoming. It’s like the Church doesn’t WANT converts or people to come home.

To the OP: Call a Methodist Church, they will gladly baptize your children and then you could still send them to CCD…the Catholic Church recognizes Protestant baptism so you can have it done that way. Also, the Methodist Church won’t condemn you because you are living together. They will meet you where you are and help you move into a better place…you don’t have to “clean yourself up” first. You can be yourself and grow in holiness. I’m sorry the Catholic faith doesn’t seem to care. They should quit being stunned at the large numbers that are leaving. So pompous, so much of that “holier than thou”. Sad, very sad. All these people second guessing a rude and arrogant priest. Move on OP, there are plenty of loving Christians who will help you and encourage you as you make decisions to follow Christ. :hug1:

 

[maryjk]

To the OP: Call a Methodist Church, they will gladly baptize your children and then you could still send them to CCD…the Catholic Church recognizes Protestant baptism so you can have it done that way. Also, the Methodist Church won’t condemn you because you are living together. They will meet you where you are and help you move into a better place…you don’t have to “clean yourself up” first. You can be yourself and grow in holiness. I’m sorry the Catholic faith doesn’t seem to care. They should quit being stunned at the large numbers that are leaving. So pompous, so much of that “holier than thou”. Sad, very sad. All these people second guessing a rude and arrogant priest. Move on OP, there are plenty of loving Christians who will help you and encourage you as you make decisions to follow Christ. :hug1:

Keep in mind the OP has no plans to “move to a better place.” She plans on continuing to live with the father of her second child. See, marriage is just a piece of paper. So there isn’t ever any reason to pursue marriage.

And since when it is rude and arrogant to state the truth? The OP is in fact living with the father of her second child. She in fact, did not marry the father of her first child. Although she seems to want both children baptized in the same church, she doesn’t seem to concerned that their fathers are different. That is what the priest said. Do YOU see something different???

 

[mangy_dog]

That is very true but he won’t, he’s not interested in marriage… sees it as just a piece of paper that isn’t going to keep a couple together if they don’t want to be!

I have been very naive towards this christening, didn’t think about it as deep as I should! Just thought u asked to be christened an then you was, I have been to many christenings mainly catholic 1s where I know for a fact not 1 of them have stepped foot in the church since but class themselves as proper catholics! Suppose its just not meant to be!

I was searching for this specific thread and- am glad you hung in there through the good responses and the harsh ones too.

You have no impediment to marriage in the church barring of course that you are living with this man out of wedlock. It seems you want to do the “catholic thing” and God’s grace is at work strongly in you. However, you are responding to God’s will in your own style and under your specific requirements.

Don’t blame the priest. He’s just doing what he’s supposed to.

Live-in step dad is way out in left field with his “it’s just a paper” philosophy. This is problem #1.

Problem #2 is your willingness to accept the current conditions of “quick fix”. Quick fix father figure; quick fix baptism; quick fix home.

Problem #3 you don’t have a plan for the Sacrament of Marriage- preceded by the Sacrament of Confession (for yourself). The very last Sacrament you should be worried about is the Sacrament of Baptism for your child.

Get your duckies in order. You are the solution. If live-in boyfriend is not on board with doing things the right way…maybe he isn’t prince charming after all. Don’t get hung up on this last sentence…priority ONE is: get your Sacraments in order. You can’t give your child of what you don’t have.

 

[nietz]

The above answers are “right on”. My hope is that you pray on the matter and understand what the comments are saying. RICA is the very best program out there, and will give you all the answers you want and need. I am a cradle Catholic, and have perty much taken my Catholic religion on Faith. When I was raised it was mostly memorizing prayers and hitting on the Sacraments. So, ya, my “Faith” has gotten me through a whole lot. Recently I decided to attend the RICA classes. (I am 68) I actually learned WHY I believe in what I believe! I am so blessed to have been born and raised in a Catholic family. Not everyone is so blessed. If you have any questions at all and even think about the Catholic religion, you owe it to yourself (and your family) to look into the RICA classes.
If you live a good life, I will see you in Heaven, even if you aren’t a Catholic! God Loves You, and So Do I !

 

[FAB]

So just showing up and asking for the baptism is all that you need?

I think it’s more than just showing up, it shows a willingness the examine the faith and an understanding that there is an importance in haveing the child baptised.

I think the issue here is how one defines the word “hope”.

I think this is the question. Is there more less hope with this uncoventional couple raising their child Catholic than a married Catholic couple that does it just because family of cultural tradition. I believe it’s about the same. Some things we have to leave in God’s hands.

 

[FAB]

I think this says it all. Is baptism all that is required for salvation? To baptize a child into the Catholic faith makes his or her reaching heaven harder, not easier. It does bring them grace through the baptism and the Holy Spirit, but to whom is given much, much more is expected.

Baptism is the gateway to the sacremental life of a Catholic, not the gate to heaven. It is merely the beginning.

Brother, we recongize the baptism performed in other faiths as long as it is in the trinitarian form. How is is reconcyled that we are baptising into the Sacrament life of the Church and not into the body of Christ? and if Baptism is not the gate way into heaven, why do we baptise if there is a danger of death?

 

[FAB]

Yes, it is. Read the whole section on those to be baptized. You may have been told that it is not there but read it for yourself. This is one of the pastoral accomodations which does in fact appear in the canon law. The one you site does not, it only implied.

Perhaps your ordinary does things differently, but in my written facalties form my ordianary, I am allowed to only baptize up to the age of 7, for the reasons previously stated. What does yours say?

 

[mangy_dog]

Stressedmummy,

Be sure not to skirt around the priorities. As it seems that some people on this forum are trying to give you a “way out” without properly ordering your life first.

I promise you it will be better in the long run to do things the right way.

 

[Elizabeth502]

I think it’s more than just showing up, it shows a willingness the examine the faith and an understanding that there is an importance in haveing the child baptised.

I think this is the question. Is there more less hope with this uncoventional couple raising their child Catholic than a married Catholic couple that does it just because family of cultural tradition. I believe it’s about the same. Some things we have to leave in God’s hands.

You’re still missing two central questions:

~1 - The very lifestyle of the couple asking for a baptism is indicative of the level of hope, much more so than anything contradictory to that which they express verbally, or which others assume silently. The “married Catholic couple that does it just because of cultural tradition” is married. That is a radical and fundamental difference, in the Roman Church’s eyes, from cohabitation. Children learn first from what their parents model in behavior.

~2 - Everybody here who is criticizing the priest’s decision has no factual basis for doing so, not only because we are not privy to all the details he would know, but because by profession and experience he knows what he is doing in each particular situation or decision. If we do not trust the priest to make appropriate decisions regarding the administration of sacraments, then we do not really believe in the office of the ministerial priesthood as the Church understands that and teaches it.

 

[Lapey]

Brother, we recongize the baptism performed in other faiths as long as it is in the trinitarian form. How is is reconcyled that we are baptising into the Sacrament life of the Church and not into the body of Christ? and if Baptism is not the gate way into heaven, why do we baptise if there is a danger of death?

Can. 849 Baptism, the gateway to the sacraments and necessary for salvation by actual reception or at least by desire, is validly conferred only by a washing of true water with the proper form of words. Through baptism men and women are freed from sin, are reborn as children of God, and, configured to Christ by an indelible character, are incorporated into the Church.

Does this help? As you can see, baptism does both.

I think you and I need to leave this discussion. I am talking from canon law, and you are talking from your training I guess. But you have stated several ideas that are contrary to canon law. All it appears like now is two clergy members fighting, that’s not good.

By the way, who said anything about Catholics accepting baptism in other denoms or not? I do not see your point. Baptism is the first step, it is not the whole deal, it is far from the whole deal. If one is baptized then has no relationship with Christ for his whole life, and lives life as he feels fit to do so not living the commandments, do you think they are destined for the Kingdom simply because they are baptized??? I hope you say no.

 

[Lapey]

Perhaps your ordinary does things differently, but in my written facalties form my ordianary, I am allowed to only baptize up to the age of 7, for the reasons previously stated. What does yours say?

It is possibly this is a “particular” law as apposed to a “universal” law, but I don’t think it is. None the less, it is most deffinitely acceptible for this to be done by law it is a pastoral option.

 

[TimothyH]

Does anyone see similarities between the original post in this thread and the original post in the thread title “Performing our own Christening/Baptism for our son?”

The puncutation, sentance structure and use of the word “Christening” are all too similar between the posts.

Is it Deja Vu all over again, or is StressedMummy thinking of taking matters into her own hands?

-Tim-

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Does anyone see similarities between the original post in this thread and the original post in the thread title “Performing our own Christening/Baptism for our son?”

The puncutation, sentance structure and use of the word “Christening” are all too similar between the posts.

Is it Deja Vu all over again, or is StressedMummy thinking of taking matters into her own hands?

-Tim-

As I have been involved in a PM conversation with the OP of the thread you link here I can say with certainty that the OP of this thread and the one linked are not the same person nor are the cases in any way similar.

 

[FAB]

~1 - The very lifestyle of the couple asking for a baptism is indicative of the level of hope, much more so than anything contradictory to that which they express verbally, or which others assume silently. The “married Catholic couple that does it just because of cultural tradition” is married

 

[TEPO]

I never actually criticized the original Priest either… Just for the record. I’ve only criticized posters here -who I thought didn’t know all the details yet assumed certain things. I think we’re past that now though and I’d rather not rehash.

 

[FAB]

Can. 849 Baptism, the gateway to the sacraments and necessary for salvation by actual reception or at least by desire, is validly conferred only by a washing of true water with the proper form of words. Through baptism men and women are freed from sin, are reborn as children of God, and, configured to Christ by an indelible character, are incorporated into the Church.

Does this help? As you can see, baptism does both.

I think you and I need to leave this discussion. I am talking from canon law, and you are talking from your training I guess. But you have stated several ideas that are contrary to canon law. All it appears like now is two clergy members fighting, that’s not good.

By the way, who said anything about Catholics accepting baptism in other denoms or not? I do not see your point. Baptism is the first step, it is not the whole deal, it is far from the whole deal. If one is baptized then has no relationship with Christ for his whole life, and lives life as he feels fit to do so not living the commandments, do you think they are destined for the Kingdom simply because they are baptized??? I hope you say no.

Brother, I don’t think we are so much in disagreement, but just approach the issue for differrent directions.

In his dialogue with Nicodemus, Jesus taught that Baptism was necessary for salvation. **“No one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit” **(Jn 3:5). After his Resurrection, Jesus met with the eleven Apostles and gave them the commission to preach the Gospel and baptize, telling them, “Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved” (Mk 16:16).

The word baptism in its origins is Greek and means “immersion” and “bath.” Immersion in water is a sign of death and emersion out of the water means new life. To bathe in water is also to undergo cleansing. Saint Paul sums up this truth when he says, “You were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead” (Col 2:12).

The origin and foundation of Christian Baptism is Jesus. Before starting his public ministry, Jesus submitted himself to the baptism given by John the Baptist. The waters did not purify him; he cleansed the waters. “He comes to sanctify the Jordan for our sake . . . to begin a new creation through the Spirit and water” (St. Gregory Nazianzen, Liturgy of the Hours, I, 634).

Jesus’ immersion in the water is a sign for all human beings of the need to die to themselves to do God’s will. Jesus did not need to be baptized because he was totally faithful to the will of his Father and free from sin. However, he wanted to show his solidarity with human beings in order to reconcile them to the Father.

By commanding his disciples to baptize all nations, he established the means by which people would die to sin—Original and actual—and begin to live a new life with God.
—From the United States Catholic Catechism for Adults

 

[Elizabeth502]

We don’t deny the children for the sins of the parents.

“We” are not denying children based on “sins.” Rather, the Church – her authority as vested in the ministerial priesthood and the hierarchy – deny particular couples the privilege (not the right) of baptism based on the discernment particular priests have about such couples. That discernment is a process that you are not privy to, nor anyone on this thread is privy to, including even the OP. It is not a process based on assumption or knowledge of “sins,” but rather on direct observation of whether the couple requesting the sacrament does or does not intend to model the essential lifestyle of the Christian in a matter as fundamental as marriage.

Often I have seen through this process the parents decide to correct thier situation.

Those situations have nothing to do with this situation described on this thread.

The Holy Spirit could be at work here, perhaps we should step aside.

I am not one who has suggested anything but stepping aside. Rather, all those making inappropriate and disrespectful speculation about what the deciding priest does know, could know, and could reasonably predict based on current circumstances and attitudes, are the ones who are assuming that perhaps they know better than the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit works through the ministerial priesthood. The Church entrusts such decisions to ordained priests in particular parishes, making decisions as those questions are presented to him. The Church does not encourage us to speculate about whether the Holy Spirit is or is not at work in the decision a particular priest made. The Church asks us to trust. The professionals are entrusted with such tasks, not the laity.

 

[TimothyH]

As I have been involved in a PM conversation with the OP of the thread you link here I can say with certainty that the OP of this thread and the one linked are not the same person nor are the cases in any way similar.

That’s actually good to hear. Very good. Thank you.

-Tim-

 

[Lapey]

Brother, I don’t think we are so much in disagreement, but just approach the issue for differrent directions.

so you are of the once saved always saved belief? Once baptized always destined for heaven, no matter what?

You skipped right over that word “believes” in that scripture you missuse like a protestent would. What does believe mean?

 

[jmcrae]

No doubt that Catholics need to believe what the Church teaches as Truth. But do you really think a non Catholic is capable of acting on Truth without ever receiving the Sacraments? Wouldn’t it be just ‘going through the motions’ void of actual truth, if it were even possible…?

It’s called 'prevenient grace" and everyone in RCIA is relying on it - we don’t give the Sacraments to RCIA participants until they have completed three of the four phases of the process.

The Inquiry Process (the first phase) is often lengthened by the need for Declarations of Nullity and Convalidations to take place before moving into structured Catechesis - which assumes that the participant is correctly disposed to receive the graces that are imparted there, even though they are not Sacramental graces.

In other words - yes, we expect people to be doing the right thing, and even receiving grace from God, even before they have received even one Sacrament.