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Padres1969
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Don’t forget to turn your dome light on at night. They’re always more at ease if you’re well lit.
Outrage after video captures white Baton Rouge police officer fatally shooting a black man
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jmcrae
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Good point.
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josh987654321
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I agree.
Yes, it appears that the other office was wrestling with his other arm and when that office was losing his arm, the other officer pulled his gun out and placed it on his chest and then after some more wrestling and shouting he shot him several times at point blank.
I also couldn’t quite make out what the officer pulled from his pocket, which it appears his other arm was trying to get to.
I don’t know about this, it could go both ways and the video footage was not clear enough, nor did I hear much in it, you would need to look at the history of the three people involved to draw a more accurate conclusion I think.
If the officers have a history of excessive force or targeting black people, than I would be more inclined to say the Officers are most likely in the wrong, if the suspect/victim who was shot has a history of violently resisting arrest, he would have most likely harmed other officers in the process before, then I would be more inclined to say the officers are not guilty of murder, they may be guilty of erring under significant pressure when there are probably some other ways it could be handled without someone being killed.
The other thing I would mention, is that it is silly for people to be viewing this in the lens of ‘black hate crime’ if people view it in the lens of race, it will only exacerbate the racism in America, if they view it in the proper lens of a person (skin color irrelevant) being killed by police, only then can people move forward and deal with this shooting as it should be dealt with.
The next thing I see coming is another ‘black lives matter’ campaign, which form it will take I don’t know, but it’s a fallacy, because all lives matter.
‘Black lives matter’ is only the opposite of white supremacy racism of ‘white lives matter’ both are racist.
I’ll say a prayer for the victim and perpetrators, hopefully the truth will come to light and justice properly served.
I hope this has helped
God Bless
Thank you for reading
Josh
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Regular_Atheist
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“All Lives Matter” is an attempt to ignore the fact that black people are more likely to be the victims of police brutality. Black Lives Matter is drawing attention to a real, documented issue. Skin colour is clearly relevant, I don’t see how you can deny this. It’s like looking at statistics of lynchings against black people and saying “Hey, let’s not look at race here. After all, all lynchings are bad!” If we don’t focus on the racist origins of this issue then we won’t be able to fix it. Black Lives Matter is not implying that the lives of non-blacks are worthless anymore than “save the dolphins” implies that all other animals need to die.
Of course all lives matter, but the Black Lives Matter movement is not just making a statement about the value of life. It’s trying to tackle an issue that disproportionately affects a certain demographic.
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Al_Moritz
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XndrK
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Okay, gonna be honest here: I’m honestly not sure which side to take; I’m just offering this argument to further the discussion. With that in mind:
It may very well be that the reason blacks are targeted for arrest more often is because statistically speaking, blacks commit more crimes, and not because they are black. (Duh. I mean, really.) Rather, it’s because of a series of historical transgressions against racially-African people throughout the history of the United States that has put African-Americans into lower-class neighborhoods, where crime is more prevalent (for whatever reason).
As a result, police officers accidentally and subconsciously teach themselves that “black=crook”, which is wrong (VERY wrong), but at the same time is “supported” by the evidence in front of them. This makes cops edgier around blacks, which means they tend to be more aggressive around them, which means that inner-city communities are ticked at cops, and by extension the law, which increases the crime rate, which …
So it’s not because cops are racist, it’s because people are stupid (me included). Two options (and why not do both?): 1) improve quality of life in inner-city communities, strengthening families and providing purpose and support (the Church can do this, and really should, if it isn’t doing that already), so the road to crime is blocked, and 2) run events, recruitment programs, etc to improve relations between law enforcement and inner-city communities.
:twocents:
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Expatreprocedit
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That may be good advice, but it is beside the point in this discussion. Even when suspects don’t do everything they are supposed to, shooting them should be the last resort, only when they pose a deadly threat.
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Padres1969
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As if to highlight this fact, a young black man who WAS complying with calmly complying with police orders and was legally carrying a licensed firearm (as so many on this site advocate) was shot four times and killed by police in Minnesota during a routine traffic stop. He was reaching for his license as requested and the cops killed him for it.
gawker.com/black-man-shot-and-killed-by-police-officer-in-minnesot-1783254573
Warning this video is graphic and heartbreaking.
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Lea101
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I’m so heartbroken and angered by people who immediately try to defend corrupt cops or bring up crimes done by black people whenever something like this happens/pretend this is not racism.
Is it a reflex action to immediately defend people in the wrong and be blind to racism?
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Lea101
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Um, no, not really. I would agree that racism in the past has put black people in lower class neighborhoods and made it really difficult for them to succeed, and that contributes to the crime rate.Okay, gonna be honest here: I’m honestly not sure which side to take; I’m just offering this argument to further the discussion. With that in mind:
It may very well be that the reason blacks are targeted for arrest more often is because statistically speaking, blacks commit more crimes, and not because they are black. (Duh. I mean, really.) Rather, it’s because of a series of historical transgressions against racially-African people throughout the history of the United States that has put African-Americans into lower-class neighborhoods, where crime is more prevalent (for whatever reason).
As a result, police officers accidentally and subconsciously teach themselves that “black=crook”, which is wrong (VERY wrong), but at the same time is “supported” by the evidence in front of them. This makes cops edgier around blacks, which means they tend to be more aggressive around them, which means that inner-city communities are ticked at cops, and by extension the law, which increases the crime rate, which …
So it’s not because cops are racist, it’s because people are stupid (me included). Two options (and why not do both?): 1) improve quality of life in inner-city communities, strengthening families and providing purpose and support (the Church can do this, and really should, if it isn’t doing that already), so the road to crime is blocked, and 2) run events, recruitment programs, etc to improve relations between law enforcement and inner-city communities.
:twocents:
You just said that cops were edgier and think black people=crooks, and then say that they are not racist. That’s extremely confusing.
A lot of white people have this same view, that their views are somewhat justified. But let me flip it. It’s a fact that blacks were seriously oppressed by whites. As a result, black people are more “edgier and aggressive” towards white people. Because statistically speaking, white people are likely to attack a person of color. Now, when I used to tell them this, these people will immediately argue that “no!! it’s racism! Black people are racist towards us by acting like we are all racist”. So which is it? This way of thinking also applies in other stuff like homophobia, feminism, etc.
The fact that they act differently around black people already shows there is discrimination. Just because they didn’t teach themselves to be racist does not mean they are not racist. You could tell a child all the horrible things a certain race has done (which is true) and the child grows up to generalise a race like that= child is racist and stupid, not just stupid. It’s not rocket science, honestly.
“It may very well be that the reason blacks are targeted for arrest more often is because statistically speaking, blacks commit more crimes” is not really true. There are numerous cases where the black person was innocent and was targeted. Racial profiling. But if you mean in general, it is still a case of racial profiling. Kind of like how people assume all Muslims are terrorists. It’s an act of hate to generalise a whole race, whether intentional or not.
I am also skeptical of certain statistics in the US because of its history of systemic oppression. Like it’s more likely for people to target racial minorities for crime and hence the higher rate. For example, like how people target Christianity, for homophobia for example, and don’t put as much effort in targeting other religions, so as a result, Christianity has a higher rate. But for the sake of this conversation, I’ll assume the stats are accurate
I don’t think black people believe all cops are evil, but there are cops who are, and they use their position to oppress.
Your ideas are not bad because it could lower crime rates and make people not hate cops blindly but there is something that should be done to give minorities a reason to trust the cops. Your ideas won’t get rid of racism. We still have a long way to go.
And if you want an easy explanation for AllLivesMatter is a terrible idea, this video should be helpful
youtube.com/watch?v=NtAAeyswlHM
Or if you want an easier explanation:
Catholics say “unborn children have dignity, stop killing them” or “unborn children matter”
And then everyone else whines “Are you saying other kids do not matter? What about old people too? ALL of us have dignity”
Like obviously Catholics believe that, but they were addressing specifically to an issue-abortion, and claiming otherwise does not focus on abortion and hence takes attention off the issue.
Same with blacklivesmatter, they are trying to address a real and valid issue, and by saying all lives matter, you are taking the attention away from the issue they are focusing on, which is racism.
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pnewton
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I do not deny that there is a real issue that should be explored and steps taken to alleviate. Likewise, I know that extensive training and awareness is already done all over the country to combat this problem. However, no one has the right to lump all people together to judge them as a group, be it black people, “All Lives Matter” people, or police officers. The latter is also a real problem in some communities, where any police shooting results in violence and condemnation of the shooting without any facts. Even if the officer is latter exonerate, or even simply found not guilty, the cry remains that the black community cannot get justice. This too is bigotry, and since the same people are decrying bigotry against them, it is hypocrisy.
Even an atheist should recognize the wisdom that any moral code should be universal; that anything one finds to be a wrong against them should not be acceptable for them to do.
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pnewton
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It is not pretense. It is unknown. The pretense is using words like “murder” prematurely. Rushing to a conclusion without evidence is wrong and dangerous, whether you are a policeman on a traffic stop, part of a neighborhood protest, or on the internet judging that policeman. The very prejudice that is blamed for every police shooting of a black man, is the same prejudice that drives the blaming.
Until we see both sides of this issue, we will remain divided and progress will be difficult.
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Lea101
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There is some evidence and from what we have, it’s in favor to the argument that his death was unnecessary, and we have seen both sides. They contradict each other. It’s not unreasonable to say his death was unnecessary.
Not all black people who were shot by cops were victims of racism, but police brutality is a real issue and if we don’t speak up about it, corrupt cops are going to hide all of this and defend themselves, like they have been doing for quite some time. We cannot act like racism has ended when slavery was abolished. I hope I make sense.
The main problem is corrupt people trying to put these victims in a negative light to cover up the acts of the policemen. Every time this happens, the police or racists will try to bring up the victim’s criminal record, or make up false facts. We understand that sometimes cops mess up and it’s not always racism, it’s how they treat unnecessary deaths and let the cops that are in the wrong to go off free. It is truly disgusting. The system needs to change tbh.
And on a slightly different note, people were at the site where he was killed, for praise and worship to remember him. Saddest thing ever
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Brendan
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Statistically speaking, if a black person is attacked, it is more likely they will be attacked by another black.
And black on white crime is twice that of white on black crime.
So your statement is a bit off, statistically speaking, a black person should be more comfortable with a unknown white person approaching them, than an unknown black person. And that is especially true if the white person is a police officer. The actual incidence of homicide by a white police officer is actually rare, especially compared to the 6,000 annual incidences of black on black murder.
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GaryTaylor
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Depends on context. To suggest positive changes haven;t been made also underestimates the efforts from the Church and other peoples and for decades. The issue is politics not history which excuses behavior
No one is privileged to special bad behavior.
All immigrants coming to america are basically in this situation do to central location of social services and financial status, whites have been no different.
Who made it difficult for them to succeed, the people who run these cities while we have a Black president and all did nothing? I was under the impression democrats were building sanctuary cities, and they are.
Let alone the police depts handcuffed by Obama and being reluctant to go an extra mile in todays political attack by democrats in policing. Again google Chicago. Google Baltimore and see how that worked out.
chicagoreader.com/chicago/chicago-politics-segregation-african-american-black-white-hispanic-latino-population-census-community/Content?oid=3221712
usatoday.com/story/news/2016/07/05/more-than-60-shot-chicago-over-july-4th-weekend/86707218/
We have a issue not with corrupt police though they exist but oppression of police by politics thus safety issues. No good.
Are you saying Blacks behave different than everyone and are entitled? Thats racist in itself and wrong but follows the above thinking.
infogr.am/Black-34991937313
You have a source?
Blacks killed by Whites 7.6 %
Whites killed by Whites 82 %
Whites killed by Blacks 14.8 %
Blacks killed by Blacks 90%
2014 from the FBI, or check the US Census Bureau.
Maybe blacks act different around whites. You have to be taught hate as its a learned behavior. How one is taught may vary. People are by large prejudice not racist. And that is from comfortability with cultural surroundings etc. So this is predictable with understanding
Why promote this?
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Yes it is. And homicides in particular. Again predictable imho
And police have been innocent and targeted in Baltimore. Assuming profiling is hate.
Its nothing more than a theory promoted by the extreme, and I do mean extreme left. Google it to its source, and you’ll find Marxist propaganda. You should be skeptical about that “systemic oppression” not factual stats.
Its more likely crime numbers will be higher in cities where as I explained, they suppress the police despite pleas for help and won’t address there own prison of segregation. And as we seen in Baltimore these may be Black cops, a Black prosecutor and Black judge. However, bigger cities will have higher violent crime totals, smaller cities will be lower as assimilation and raw statistics will suggest and aside from. Profiling is simply a fact of life. Targeting means otherwise. One is situational awareness the other an intentional ploy to not just profile but to intentionally persecute. So the optics depend and matter, you may profile if you are looking for a mate to procreate with? But you target them with ill intent.
I don’t think white people believe all black cops are evil either.but there are black cops who are and use their position to oppress.
Its a racist group invoking racism through the same thinking of entitled behavior mentioned above and IF they were REALLY concerned like I said about Chicago they would address the problem with Black on Black crime? What they follow and again as you mention above is the “conspiracy theory” of systemic white privilege, obviously not racial and proven by Obama and Clinton with “elite privilege” via complete hypocrisy and a double standard the other day.
I think we would do well to focus on the facts at hand instead of conspiracy theories.
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pnewton
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I do not doubt his death was unnecessary. I only doubt as to whether it was the police or himself responsible. The second video showed that he was armed, and that he was struggling with them even after he was on the ground. Yes, they had him pinned to the ground. No, they did not have him restrained. Yes, someone with even one hand free can still kill police officers. They had not even gotten to the point of removing cuffs, much less applying them. He knew he would go to prison for a long time for the gun he had, even though I am sure he is a great guy in the neighborhood.
One thing I had not noted before. They did try and restrain him first by pinning him to the ground, before they knew he had a gun. In this, considering they were called to the site about a man with a gun, they gave him the benefit of the doubt. Police are taught that if lower force is not working, they escalate.
The only two things I question are not on the video. They are unknown. First, what happened prior to the first cell phone video? Did they try to defuse the situation or contribute to its escalation. Second, if he refused to get on the ground, and the call was a man on the gun, did they wait for assistance when he refused to get on the ground. Maybe there was no assistance coming. Maybe they deemed the situation was already untenable. If he was so well liked, bystanders could have made faster action necessary.
I actually am glad that no one here used the man’s past to paint him in bad light, as if they would justify taking his life. I guess if we are going to be in error it is better to be in error in favor of someone’s character. I only mention it as a way of examining the subject’s mind set. The past is important to one carrying a gun, as a prior felony conviction makes this about a return to prison, not a ticket for selling CD’s, or a night in jail waiting to bond on threatening someone. This explains his unwillingness to comply far better than general distrust of cops, or that he was somehow too ignorant or addled to understand what was happening.
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pnewton
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I think all the emphasis in movies and on TV about how a good cop relies on his intuition is part of the problem, and a lot of hogwash. Gut feelings are a breeding ground for racism. Do not read the eyes. Read the arms, the legs, the words, or as Sgt. Friday says, just the facts. Respond to the action, not the person.
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Al_Moritz
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Lea101
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- saying that racism exists does not mean I’m saying that there are 0 positive changes.
- your stats are wrong. theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/08/fbi-chief-says-ridiculous-guardian-washington-post-better-information-police-shootings
- the fact that you think people who advocate blacklivesmatter and you casually ignoring white people discriminating black people makes me not want to have a conversation with you.
- the fact that you think white privilege is not a thing when it comes to stuff like this IS the problem. Your other posts also shows me that it’s hopeless to explain simple stuff to you so with all due respect, having a conversation with you would honestly frustrate me.
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Lea101
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Sadly a lot of cops simply have to give a fatal shot/multiple fatal shots because they “feared for their lives” when someone reaches for his ID (when told by the cops to do so, btw).
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