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jmcrae
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Which goes back to what I was taught 40 years ago. Show respect, be polite, and keep your hands where the officer can see them.
Outrage after video captures white Baton Rouge police officer fatally shooting a black man
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starshiptrooper
Guest
Agreed, if you watch the video, you can see that his right hand not under control of either officer. All he had to do was establish a grip on his weapon and he could have shot either officer through his clothing.
Alton Sterling made the decision to fight with the police. He refused to comply with the officers’ commands even when they had the drop on him. He carried a gun despite the fact that he had numerous offenses on his record that barred him from owning a gun. Had Alton Sterling obeyed the law, he would be alive today. His blood is on his own head, and I feel sorry for the officers who will now be permanently affected by this traumatic incident.
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pnewton
Guest
I am glad (if such a word can be used in this context), that this happened in Dallas, where a responsible citizen exercising his right to bear arms used reason and was treated properly. There was not danger to him.
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Rand_Al_Thor
Guest
As a police officer myself, and a Catholic, it is beyond infuriating to read many of these comments. How many of you have ever fought with someone period, let alone someone armed with a gun? How long are you going to play the “who’s stronger” game and hope you don’t get shot? Sgt. Jason Gooding in Seaside, OR was shot and killed with a gun that was shot from INSIDE THE SUSPECTS POCKET just months ago. If you don’t think a gun can be shot without being taken out of a pocket, then you don’t know a thing about how guns work.
Saying these officers are guilty of murder is ignorant beyond belief, coming from people with no training or experience in police work, use of force, case law, etc. This situation could just as easily have happened to me. It’s so heartening to know my fellow Catholics would be calling me a racist murderer if it did.
A registered sex offender with a history of assault and resisting arrest who fought with two police officers and tried to kill them. Great martyr you’ve chosen there. How many of you would care or be angry if he had succeeded in killing those officers?
Saying these officers are guilty of murder is ignorant beyond belief, coming from people with no training or experience in police work, use of force, case law, etc. This situation could just as easily have happened to me. It’s so heartening to know my fellow Catholics would be calling me a racist murderer if it did.
A registered sex offender with a history of assault and resisting arrest who fought with two police officers and tried to kill them. Great martyr you’ve chosen there. How many of you would care or be angry if he had succeeded in killing those officers?
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Darryl1958
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Some of us would be angry when they succeed.
Many others express disgust against such anger though, and while they will never express any disgust at inflammatory rhetoric directed at cops, etc. even when asked, they do call for restraint on all the rhetoric when it is dead cops that are involved.
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sallybutler
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The only problem I have with what you say, is did the police know going in that the man had a criminal background?
The answer to that is NO!!!
Hindsight being 20/20, it is easy to say the police were justified because the victim had a criminal history. But our system of justice is based on a presumption of innocence. Anytime the police kill someone, they subvert that.
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josh987654321
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I have said no such thing.
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josh987654321
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May I ask how you know that? (I haven’t heard/read that anywhere)
Not necessarily, criminal history or not, if someone is carrying a gun and they are also resisting arrest, it’s not unlikely that they may reach for that gun or use it in resisting.
In a court room.
Why would police carry guns then? Aren’t there situations where lethal force may be necessary in order to save lives and protect civilians?
I hope this has helped
God Bless
Thank you for reading
Josh
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Fuerza
Guest
I’m a police officer also. From my experience your complaint, while valid, will largely fall on deaf ears on this board. The fact that many people still put forth Michael Brown as a victim of police brutality despite the evidence (as well as Trayvon Martin, who wasn’t killed by a cop at all) shows how so many people, kind and loving in other aspects of their lives, feel free to hate cops. These same people have no understanding of police training or tactics, or what we face every day.
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Fuerza
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How do you know that for sure? Is it possible that they didn’t? Of course it is. But it’s equally possible that they were familiar with him. I frequently respond to conflicts and find that I recognize one or more of the parties from past contacts. That could easily be the case here as well.
Nevertheless, the circumstances dictate the actions regardless of someone’s character. We cannot see what Mr. Sterling was doing with his arm in the videos, at least not the ones I’ve seen up to this point, and the officer was correct that he had a firearm. If Mr. sterling tried to grab that weapon during the struggle, all bets are off and lethal force is justified. While it is certainly possible that this was a bad shoot, we should let the facts come out first. People are quick to give the benefit of the doubt to convicted felons, but when a cop is involved everyone calls for their heads. My 7 year old daughter was in tears yesterday because she overheard someone say that they wanted all cops dead. Why should I have to deal with that? What did I do?
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josh987654321
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I wish you wouldn’t generalize this board, which includes me, however few posts I have here compared to others.God Bless You
Thank you for reading
Josh
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josh987654321
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I agree, although I wonder whether there are perhaps better alternatives, such as using a ‘Taser’ and then if the Taser didn’t work, then using Lethal Force if necessary. Or perhaps at a distance with weapons already drawn telling him to keep his hands where they can see them and then taking the gun out of his pocket if they knew he was carrying, I would want to know how they ended up on the ground trying to wrestle with his arm to begin with.
I agree.
And I don’t like that it’s automatically assumed to be racial prejudice without any evidence or information other than the skin color of those involved.
If it’s any consolation, I like what Ben Carson said on the matter in regards to surgeons, whether this shooting was racially motivated or not, whether the officers are innocent or guilty, if society highlighted one (or even a couple) bad doctors, nobody would say “all doctors are bad, don’t ever go to a doctor.”
I hope this has helped
God Bless
Thank you for reading
Josh
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redbaron162
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Considering the offenders history it is very possible one of the officers was familiar with her violent criminal history. He may not have but things like that do matter in an officers mindset.
As for anytime the police kill someone I do not agree they subvert the justice system. Pretty much any offense that would justify lethal force would require the officer to personally witness what the offender was doing. Could there be circumstances where they make a wrong judgement call that was right with the information they had at the time? Sure. This is why it just goes to show that you should stop moving and follow officer commands. Police officers are not there to hold court on the side of the street. Get arrested and argue the case in court where you have an objective jury and judge with a lawyer by your side.
In general keep in mind the Scriptures back the concept of armed civil servants charged to enforce the peace:
Romans 13:4
Would you have no fear of him who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain; he is the servant of God to execute his wrath on the wrongdoer.
A handgun is merely todays version of the sword which, when wielded by the proper authority and in communion with the proper law, is justly wielded.
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Darryl1958
Guest
The automatic assumption is built in the media narrative. the mere fact that these shootings of black men by white police officers are the ones the media selects to report on nationally draws the readers to make that assumption long before any pertinent facts are brought into the equation.
That is the narrative that the media have been pushing. It is inflammatory to its core, and the results that arise out of such inflammatory one-sided inflammotory reporting of the news are totally within the range of what may be expected.
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Rand_Al_Thor
Guest
The reason I consider his history is because it shows what kind of person he was. If he has a history of assaulting people and resisting arrest, it makes it much more believable that is what he was doing.
That first pop you hear in the video before the officer takes him down is, I believe, a Taser going off. It was already tried and ineffective.
That first pop you hear in the video before the officer takes him down is, I believe, a Taser going off. It was already tried and ineffective.
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ThinkingSapien
Guest
There are additional factors. The nation does have a long history of unequivocally unjust treatment of minorities (not just blacks) from its inception until at least living memory. There is a narrative that has been around much longer than the media.
Cameras seem to have a significant impact on reactions to stories too. For the stories that have been getting the most coverage we have videos of the men in agony as their progressing to their final moment. That’s something that moves people; it has emotional impact. Deray McKesson got arrested last night (associated with BLM) while he was live broadcasting a peaceful protest. He and some other protesters were walking along a curb when a police officer tackled McKesson from behind and arrested him for blocking traffic (you be the judge periscope.tv/w/alEXGTgxMDg4M3wxRFh4eVpqdnJXVktN3OlXO9-RL7AEKRud2hp3RArP8R2RRK5Txq7RFXxRVdE= ). There is another video of a black man that had his hands up a significant distance from the police and he was still shot dead. This happened in the last week and was caught by some other security cameras.
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starshiptrooper
Guest
The important thing is that it gives us insight into Sterling’s character. Who is more likely to fight with the police? A sexual predator with multiple violent crimes and weapon offenses on his record or a sweet little old lady who drives 5 mph under the speed limit?
Sterling committed at least 4 or 5 different offenses that should have barred him from carrying a gun. Had he chosen to obey that law, he would be alive today.
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Fuerza
Guest
That’s not typically an option. Tasers are not 100% effective and sometimes one of the prongs misses its mark or does not adequately penetrate clothing. While this can still produce a painful shock, it is not in any way debilitating and will not stop someone intent on causing harm. If an officer is faced with an armed subject and the Taser is not effective, he has essentially signed his own death warrant. There is virtually no chance that he will have the opportunity to drop the Taser, draw his weapon and fire before the subject is on him and able to stab/slice/shoot. There may be times where, when faced with something other than a firearm (knife, bat, axe etc…) one officer may employ a less lethal while another provides lethal cover in case of failure, but this depends on distance, manpower and many factors beyond the officers’ control. A single officer, or even multiple officers in close proximity to the subject, will almost always have to resort to a lethal weapon.
As I mentioned in another post, in my agency an officer who drew his Taser or spray in the face of a subject armed with any weapon at all (except under the extremely limited circumstances already mentioned) would be suspended if not terminated. Not only does he recklessly place himself in danger by not adequately addressing the threat, but in doing so he has failed to protect any other victims who might be attacked after he himself is killed or disabled.
Your second point above is the ideal scenario, and often is not possible. I too would like to know the particular circumstances.
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Fuerza
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Stop it. You’re making too much sense.
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ToeInTheWater
Guest
Anytime? So, even if a cop is actively being shot at, he or she shouldn’t shoot back? They shouldn’t defend themselves? They should just let themselves be shot and maybe killed, hoping that eventually someone will magically immobilize the shooter in a completely nonviolent way and get them jailed for life?
Actually, do you believe anyone has the right to self-defense? Or do you think police should give up that right when they put on the uniform?
Seems that if you had your way, police wouldn’t be issued any guns at all.
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