You may think it’s deceiving but I find that very commendable. No one was born knowing Ukranian (or whatever liturgical language) and unless you get the necessary exposure, you’re never going to speak or understand it. At the very least make the responses.
Thanks for sharing! I think one of the challenges I have is that I grew up in a country thats predominantly Roman Catholic. Oftentimes you cannot tell where our cultural practice ends and our religious practice begins. And its the same way with a lot of Eastern Churches where the ethnicity is tied to the religious aspect and tradition. So now I have many cultural traditions which are religiously rooted, but completely different from the cultural traditions that are also religiously rooted with the Ukrainians. I guess thats how it is different for me given that there is something Filipino for me to do when its Christmas or Lent, and this is what I am trying to overcome. Do I completely let go of my cultural religious heritage and embrace a new one? Or find something in between?
The responses aren’t that tough - “Gospodi pomilui” and “Slava Isusu Christu” pretty easy to learn! - but even then the choir takes care of that for us.
In Slavonic it’s either Hospodi or Gospodi depending on whether it’s spoken by a Ukrainian/Ruthenian or Russian, respectively. At my Ukrainian church they pronounce it closer to the Russian way - East Ukrainians, I guess.
My point isn’t that the eastern churches are unwelcoming of outsiders. In fact I think the eastern churches (especially the Maronites) are far more hospitable and warm than the western churches. They like to see visitors. The problem is a cultural barrier. Americans who were born here in America and have always lived in the American culture will very rarely join a church that follows an Arabic or other culture, especially if their ancestors aren’t from that culture.
Agreed.
) Our oldest choir member (a Christian Brother) who has been in the parish since its inception 50+ years ago will chant the hours in OCS. The rest of us are mostly limited there to the "Gospodi pomilui"s.
Our Lady of Fatima is the name of your church, or is there another one in California? If I am ever lucky enough to get out there I want to come visit.Agreed.
I think we have one Ukrainian (90 years young), one Ruthenian, and the rest are a mix of modern day San Francisco. So we are not ethnically Russian but we are Russian by our parish heritage and we very much hold to that. We just had a two part series during agape about our history in Russia, and the path out of Russia and our earliest years in SF.
I think everyone knows these OCS responses and most know several more which others have mentioned as typical to hear in the language of the Church in the homeland. Of course we all know Kýrie, eléison but I have also learned a number of other “Greek” responses since the local Greek Orthodox protocathedral does their feast day liturgies (to a nearly empty house) all in Greek. I haven’t a clue what exactly is being said at most moments but I know the liturgy so I’m a happy camper just being there. (BTW it doesn’t seem to worry them that the place is nearly empty at those services… maybe they should change to English and hold the service at night to accommodate their Americanized faithful…no way!
There’s never any telling when the curtain is pulled aside whether Father will boldly begin in OCS, or English, and the occasional Arabic from his Melkite days. Personally, I’m always happiest when it’s OCS. I only know what he is saying at that point because I know the DL. We never get a lot of OCS but we do get sections of it and any major feast will begin in OCS and have plenty of it. Many of the parish (remember we’re really tiny) know festal greetings in OCS and Arabic, since Father uses all three languages for those greetings. At Pascha we have greetings in many other languages of course.
On Feast Days like the recent Nativity Holy Supper, our agape meal together is then guaranteed to have pirogi, mushroom soup, beets, etc. Truth be told there isn’t a middle easterner among us but we also have a heavy portion of middle eastern food. S’prazdnikom!
slava naviki!!!
We’re a very lovely little village. We get a surprising number of visitors. PM me if you have a date for coming. We are the only Russian EC in CA, in a sea of Russian Orthodox, a quite lovely sea it is.
It’s not a matter of laws and the state. It is a matter of the country being an English-speaking country. If English is “frowned upon” anywhere in the country that is wrong IMO, for political and social reasons, but that is not the topic of this thread.
There being no current hierarch for us, our Russian Greek (Byzantine) Catholic parish in San Francisco is under the Latin Archbishop George of San Francisco.
We commemorate in our Liturgy our Latin Archbishop, two Auxiliary Bishops and one retired Bishop as well as Patriarch Gregorios. The Melkite bishops have ordained our EC clergy. (Others of our clergy are bi-ritual, ordained in the Latin Church with faculties to serve us.)
Sorry Jimmy, but not always.
And they don’t need to be too visible. Early Christianity spread by those who worshipped in catacombs. Interesting psychology at play there.
Unless I misread [post=740970]ciero’s post[/post], that is just what I see as a strength rather than a problem. The ethno-cultural identity can exist in varying degrees, but if it is stripped away (or, worse, negated), to entice “converts” to join, IMO we will not survive.
I don’t find them unwelcoming, at least my parish. The issue I’m presenting is that while most are warm and friendly, you still are an outsider, a visitor. An analogy, growing up I hang out at my friends’ house. The parents know me and like me, the siblings know me, the family is warm and welcoming. You can come by and hang out any time, you can sleep over, crash for lunch or dinner, everything is okay. But at the end of the day, you’re still just a visitor.
And the problem with being a welcomed visitor is what?
I think this is right. There is a balance to be struck that maintains a strong sense of identity while avoiding insularity. It should feel like home to all - recognizable to old the and inviting to the new.
Don’t forget St. Andrews in El Segundo! The Russian Catholic capital of Southern California!We’re a very lovely little village. We get a surprising number of visitors. PM me if you have a date for coming. We are the only Russian EC in CA, in a sea of Russian Orthodox, a quite lovely sea it is.
