Palestinians Admitted to Unesco in Landslide Vote

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Gift_from_God said:
I already said why. The Israeli’s want a Palestinian state, but the government doesn’t. The USA is therefore pro-Israeli government, but not pro-Israel. If America was pro-Israel, they’d be against the government and in favour of the people
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The Israeli government is opposed to a two-state solution?
 
iamrefreshed said:
How does 69% of Israeli’s account for American sentiment?

“I already said why. The Israeli’s want a Palestinian state, but the government doesn’t. The USA is therefore pro-Israeli government, but not pro-Israel. If America was pro-Israel, they’d be against the government and in favour of the people”
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The USA is showing they don’t have the interests of Israel in mind, even though the American government boasts that they’re pro-Israel. They only care about the government’s interests

By the way, I’m expecting that retraction for asking if I’m disingenuous or ignorant
 
iamrefreshed said:
How does 69% of Israeli’s account for American sentiment?

“I already said why. The Israeli’s want a Palestinian state, but the government doesn’t. The USA is therefore pro-Israeli government, but not pro-Israel. If America was pro-Israel, they’d be against the government and in favour of the people”
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That’s OK the Palistinians don’t want a jewish state in Israel either.
 
iamrefreshed said:
So the Cherokees left Georgia and told everyone they would wipe the white man off the face of the earth?

Why can’t you acknowlege that Arabs left Israel after being told Jews would be eliminated?
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Because “the Arabs” didn’t leave Israel. Where’ve you been this whole time? 4 million still live in the West Bank and Gaza!? Which… is occupied by Israel! There are also what, about 2 million Arabs living in Israel, most of whom are descended from people who have lived there for centuries. Most of the Arabs who lived in the region stayed there, the majority of those who stayed now live in the West Banks and Gaza.

Or do you seriously deny that the 4 million Arabs living in West Bank and Gaza exist? A myth invented by the media and Iran? The IDF has just been shelling the territories and blockading them for fun? Nobody really lives there.

And I’m willing to bet the Cherokees had nothing good to say about the white man or his presence in the New World after that. The Comanches had not intention of letting Europeans settle their territory, and used violence often to keep their land to themselves. hence their reputation among the Texans (or at least, the Texans of that era; not sure what current Texans think of Comanches). Nonetheless, I have no sympathy for the people who broke the Comanches as shipped them into reservations like cattle or killed their young, raped their women, and looted their settlements in the process.

Oh, are you aware of Kamau Kambon? Look him up on youtube. He expressed the opinion that white people need to be eradicated offthe face of the planet. I suppose if a news site called him a leader in the African American community, would you consider it grounds to evict all the African Americans in the country from their homes and concentrate them all in one state, then enact an embargo and military occupation on that state?
 
O_Duirnin said:
So it’s perfectly fair that a person with one Jewish grandparent, living in North America or Europe, with no connection whatsoever to Israel, can turn up at Tel Aviv Airport and pick up an Israeli passport, whereas a Palestinian Arab, born and raised on what is now Israeli territory, can’t?
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The whole purpose of Israel was to establish a Jewish homeland.
It is not any part of Europe has ever been all that accommodating to Jews, nor is it likely that that is going to change in the near or distant future.

Fair enough, I guess. The world offers pogroms and holocausts and dhimmitude, keeps up the lies of casting Israel as an apartheid state of a particular evil that needs UN censure like no other country, and the purpose behind the establishment becomes clear enough.

For the Jews it is the same as if ever was, except now they have a place to escape to.
 
Darryl1958 said:
The whole purpose of Israel was to establish a Jewish homeland.
It is not any part of Europe has ever been all that accommodating to Jews, nor is it likely that that is going to change in the near or distant future.

Fair enough, I guess. The world offers pogroms and holocausts and dhimmitude, keeps up the lies of casting Israel as an apartheid state of a particular evil that needs UN censure like no other country, and the purpose behind the establishment becomes clear enough.

For the Jews it is the same as if ever was, except now they have a place to escape to.
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And the Palestinian Arabs, being a thorn in your side, can just be written out of your narraitve that easily. Maybe someday they;ll all be killed, exiled, and broken as a people. Then you can just sat “what Palestinians? They never existed?” Having successfully ‘doublethought’ your way out of what should’ve been a moral issue.
 
iamrefreshed said:
The UN is a class A organization.

If you define class A as an organization that is great at starting committees that accomplish nothing while flying people around the world to staying in expensive hotels so they can ‘observe’.
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The UN is not simply a political organization and it has thousands of people all over the world making life better for others. You may not agree with or support their activities, but to simply describe them the way you have is inaccurate.
 
Raskolnikov said:
And the Palestinian Arabs, being a thorn in your side, can just be written out of your narraitve that easily.
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Fortunately for the Palestinian people, they are not a thorn in the world’s side, as this historic vote shows.

Unfortuantely for America, it’s actions in this matter further isolate it from the rest of the world. The influence America once had through UNESCO will be picked up by China, perhaps.
 
Raskolnikov said:
Then you can just sat "what Palestinians?.
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Isn’t that exactly what Golda Meir is reported to have asked? Apparently, she believed there were no such people. Neither side, Palestinians or Jews, want to acknowledge the other’s right to statehood (or even to existence); which to any objective observer should make clear that blindly taking sides in this issue just perpetuates the hatred.

You don’t get to take it with you people…share already.
 
iamrefreshed said:
I have some personal insight into the UN. They are a monumental money waster.
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Money is wasted in every human pursuit; the bigger the organization, the greater the waste.

I have some personal insight into the UN as well; they have the privilege of saving numerous lives from war, disease, hunger and disaster, every single day.
 
seekerz said:
Money is wasted in every human pursuit; the bigger the organization, the greater the waste.

I have some personal insight into the UN as well; they have the privilege of saving numerous lives from war, disease, hunger and disaster, every single day.
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So you have no problems going into debt to spend money on nominally beneficial work that could better be handled by charitable organizations. I mean, if you aim is to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and care for the sick, Catholic Charities is a MUCH better investment. Plus, its voluntary…so its like REAL christian charity, rather than the compulsory monetary confiscation and distribution to organizations who champion abortion rights.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
So you have no problems going into debt to spend money on nominally beneficial work that could better be handled by charitable organizations. I mean, if you aim is to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and care for the sick, Catholic Charities is a MUCH better investment. Plus, its voluntary…so its like REAL christian charity, rather than the compulsory monetary confiscation and distribution to organizations who champion abortion rights.
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I have problems not taking a balanced view of such issues. Catholic charities is a great organization, which I support but they are not the UN. Each organization has its own function and role in the world. It’s like asking me to choose between being fed everyday day or having access to clean running water. Just as a person would have difficulty choosing between necessities, so the world would have great difficulty choosing between intergovernmental organizations and global charities.

Who should provide the security which is often needed before charities can function or help shape the international policies, agreements, research and supply chains that help make such functioning possible? Most direct aid to the world’s needy do come from charitable organizations but other international organizations (governmental and financial) are the ones providing a large part of the funds. So yes, “compulsory monetary confiscation” is a significant contributor to the fiscal health of charitable organizations.

The world is too big and complex to work in strict black and white lines. CRS cooperates with other organizations to save and improve lives, even when some aspects of those organizations are not in sync with our Catholic faith. Just like large global corporations do business even in places (or with people) not upholding the basic values we cherish.

Despite my considerable knowledge of international organisations, I must say I am unaware of any that make abortion a priority over making the basic necessities of life available to the millions who lack them. I am however, aware that the UN is no bigger a proponent of contraception and abortion than the world’s financial giants: the World Bank and the IMF, who have consistently propagated population control in the developing world as an economic policy (alongside free market principles of course).

So if you are looking for pristine hands (by the standards your post suggests) to give a cup of cold water to a thirsty Somalian child, you might have to look to galaxies far, far away…
 
seekerz said:
Isn’t that exactly what Golda Meir is reported to have asked? Apparently, she believed there were no such people. Neither side, Palestinians or Jews, want to acknowledge the other’s right to statehood (or even to existence); which to any objective observer should make clear that blindly taking sides in this issue just perpetuates the hatred.

You don’t get to take it with you people…share already.
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Speaking of the Palestinians is not like speaking about the Kurds, for example, who are an identifiable ethnic group regardless of where political boundaries are drawn. There are tribal distinctions between the groups that now go by the moniker "Palestinian’, and otherwise they are indistinguishable from the general Arabic culture that they share with the people of many of the other nations in that region.

That is the context of Golda’s statement.

As for neither Jews nor Palestinians wanting to acknowledge the other sides right to exist, this is only really true of the Palestinian side which almost to the individual man and women, do not want to recognize a Jewish state of Israel. Quite the opposite, Israeli Jews would recognize a Palestinian state tomorrow, if this would bring peace. Someone here already brought up the figure of 69%, and this is even without a peace treaty.

Objective observation does not perpetuate the myth of moral equivalence here, but acknowledges these basic differences.
 
Darryl1958 said:
Speaking of the Palestinians is not like speaking about the Kurds, for example, who are an identifiable ethnic group regardless of where political boundaries are drawn. There are tribal distinctions between the groups that now go by the moniker "Palestinian’, and otherwise they are indistinguishable from the general Arabic culture that they share with the people of many of the other nations in that region.

That is the context of Golda’s statement.

As for neither Jews nor Palestinians wanting to acknowledge the other sides right to exist, this is only really true of the Palestinian side which almost to the individual man and women, do not want to recognize a Jewish state of Israel. Quite the opposite, Israeli Jews would recognize a Palestinian state tomorrow, if this would bring peace. Someone here already brought up the figure of 69%, and this is even without a peace treaty.

Objective observation does not perpetuate the myth of moral equivalence here, but acknowledges these basic differences.
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Did she or did she not say that there were no such people? If one had to apply her concept of a nation and a people to the continent of Africa, just about every national boundary would fall. (Indeed such issues underlie many conflicts in that continent).

The unpalatable fact is that neither side wants the other to be a nation.
 
seekerz said:
Did she or did she not say that there were no such people? If one had to apply her concept of a nation and a people to the continent of Africa, just about every national boundary would fall. (Indeed such issues underlie many conflicts in that continent).

The unpalatable fact is that neither side wants the other to be a nation.
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I have no idea what she said, nor have I disputed your quote.
I merely give the context for that sort of statement being made.
Palestinian defines a geography and not a not a people, nor has it since the time of David and the Philistines.

Fair enough. This is not 1967 anymore. Most Israelis are okay with this, if this is how the Arabs of the region want to define themselves. Without peace first though, such a political entity is unworkable.
And this is what over 70 % if Israelis do want too, as already demonstrated in this very thread.
 
Truth is Palestine was offered a Palestine state before Bush left. The US and Israel had a agreement documented to give Palestine its own state. Everything was fine till it came time for Palestine to sign the document, they balked. Incidently the state would have gave Palestine the right to share Jerusalem with Israel.

Obama comes in office and the deal becomes history. Fact is Israel wants their own country and to be left alone. Really who is anyone to tell them what to do with their country. Mexico thinks we should give them back the Southwestern States, Think Israel should have a say on that?
 
GaryTaylor said:
Truth is Palestine was offered a Palestine state before Bush left. The US and Israel had a agreement documented to give Palestine its own state. Everything was fine till it came time for Palestine to sign the document, they balked. Incidently the state would have gave Palestine the right to share Jerusalem with Israel.

Obama comes in office and the deal becomes history. Fact is Israel wants their own country and to be left alone. Really who is anyone to tell them what to do with their country. Mexico thinks we should give them back the Southwestern States, Think Israel should have a say on that?
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That’s what I thought. To claim that the Israeli government is opposed to a Palestinian state is disenginuous.
 
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