Pandemic 2020: Layoff Related Deaths Exceed COVID-19 Deaths By 41%

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Yep.Seems the cure is worse than the disease.Something President Trump recognized as a concern early on.
 
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70,000 people died that wouldn’t have died.

These people have value.

Without the lockdowns, it would have been worse.
 
1cthlctrth said:
Suicide and the Economy
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Overall life expectancy increases during economic downturns:

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Increasing mortality during the expansions of the US economy, 1900-1996 - PubMed

Economic expansions are associated with increasing mortality. Suggested pathways to explain this deceleration or even reversal of the secular decline in mortality during economic expansions include both material and psychosocial effects of the economic upturns: expansion of traffic and...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
Majority of those deaths occurred in nursing homes in NYC wher Governor Cuo o sent them back to these home after being released from the hospital.
These facilities are not equipped to deal with these kinds of issues,are incubators for spreading disease.The death rate is nebulous at best
Additionally the average age is 80 with myriad underlying conditions
 
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Well, we can safely say that Covid-19 contributed rather than caused death, but I believe that deciphering flu deaths are similar to how covid-19 deaths are being designated.
Dr_Meinheimer said:
If I have a terribly weak heart, contract COVID, and my heart gives out, it is a COVID death.

If I have a frail psyche, am forced into lockdown and I commit suicide, it is a lockdown death.

At least for how we are defining the impacts of this pandemic.
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Jeanne_S said:
Yep.Seems the cure is worse than the disease.Something President Trump recognized as a concern early on.
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Way to make everything political! 😉

Yes, it’s true that despair and social isolation can lead to suicide. Yes, it’s true that covid 19 is killing people in inventive ways (stroke, blood clots, respiratory disease). Yes, it’s true the economy is in shambles.

The realistic question is not “is the cure worse than the disease”. The question is when can we safely reopen certain parts of the economy, and what additional loss of life that causes is acceptable.
 
Trump decided no quick fix and he is putting his scapegoats in place.
 
All is unacceptable if we have to close down again. This isn’t an experiment
 
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True,I meant to say that the vast majority of deaths overall are elderly in nursing homes. Most people survive this virus ,albeit with varying degrees. Hearing thT we may or may not have a vaccine it seems futile to isolate indefinitely as herd immunity is crucial to
protecting the most vulnerable.70 to 80 % exposure is what experts say is needed to achieve this.
 
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I posted nursing home covid death totals and overall covid death totals in New York.
 
Jeanne_S said:
True,I meant to say that the vast majority of deaths overall are elderly in nursing homes. Most people survive this virus ,albeit with varying degrees. Hearing thT we may or may not have a vaccine it seems futile to isolate indefinitely as herd immunity is crucial to
protecting the most vulnerable.70 to 80 % exposure is what experts say is needed to achieve this.
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So, we need to all get out there and get infected (and kill some people) so that we achieve herd immunity, even though it hasn’t been proven that having antibodies means one is immune?

How does that protect the most vulnerable?
 
F_Marturana said:
70,000 people died that wouldn’t have died.
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Short of the fascistic regime in China acting with integrity and honesty (don’t hold your breath), do you have a source from prior to January 30 that provides a method of preventing the 70,000 deaths?
F_Marturana said:
These people have value.
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Indeed they do. And there is not a single government official who could have prevented this. Not Trump. Not Cuomo. Not Inslee. None.
F_Marturana said:
Without the lockdowns, it would have been worse.
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That was not the reason for lockdowns. From the beginning, lockdowns were meant to flatten the curve, prevent an overwhelming of the healthcare system.
Until there is a vaccine or treatment, people are going to die from Covid-19. Our best option, ISTM, is carefully open and protect our most vulnerable, of which I am a part, until these are available.
 
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14 days with a 104 fever hoping to avoid more complications.
Do you get a Herd patch if you make it?
 
For a very complete public report of cases, deaths and long term facilities, try Massachusetts. They have a daily PDF update linked on this page. The latest report runs 30 pages and has a lot of detail that is worth going through.


I’ll give some highlights for MA:
Total confirmed Covid-19 cases: 70,271
Total confirmed Covid-19 deaths: 4212
currently hospitalized: 3542. In ICU: 914
Total confirmed Covid-19 deaths of residents in long term care facilities: 2542

Meaning these facilities are responsible for 60% of all deaths.

More from this report:
Average age of Covid-19 confirmed cases: 53
Average age of Covid-19 confirmed cases hospitalized: 69
Average age of Covid-19 confirmed death: 82

I’m thinking a better comparison may be the working age set (ages 16-64) cases and deaths by Covid-19 vs all other causes.

Update: looked at the age breakdown. They break it down by decades.
Ages 0-49: 5 deaths per 100k, 3318 cases per 100k, 0.15%
Ages 50-59: 15 deaths per 100k, 1198 cases per 100k, 1.25%
Ages 60-69: 51 deaths per 100k, 1146 cases per 100k, 4.45%
Ages 70-79: 198 deaths per 100k, 1392 cases per 100k, 14.22%
Ages 80+: 906 deaths per 100k, 3661 cases per 100k, 24.75%
 
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Jeanne_S said:
That will only get worse,the civil unrest…
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Just wait until we have a new surge in people getting infected and dying. And even when stay at home/shelter in place orders are lifted and businesses are allowed to reopen, because many people are still afraid of infection, they still won’t go shopping for non essential items or go eat in restaurants or go back to work. Until there are treatments or a vaccine and people feel more secure, the economy will be severly impacted regardless of what public health orders there are. The economy is not going to suddenly bounce back any time soon.
 
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PaulinVA said:
The question is when can we safely reopen certain parts of the economy, and what additional loss of life that causes is acceptable.
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The loss of life will not be changed in any way other than timing until there is either an effective and widely used vaccine or a treatment that is far more effective than anything available today.

So, the real questions are whether the economy remains in lockdown until December at the earliest, in which event there will remain an economy roughly like that of 19th Century Britain, or whether we restart the economy earlier while trying to protect the most vulnerable.

No matter what, this virus is going to continue to go through the populace and eventually at least touch everybody, until there is a widely distributed and effective vaccine.
 
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