Pandemic 2020: Layoff Related Deaths Exceed COVID-19 Deaths By 41%

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Income loss? You are fooling yourself. Short term additional body bags is all there is to take the edge off of frustration. You are a smart guy. So don’t vent on me this is no more my fault than it is yours.
You are championing superfluous righteousness. A out time to cool it. You need a real answer for sure.
Time to acknowledge, Rufus T Firefly in the WH has no answers for us
 
Maximus1 said:
Time to acknowledge, Rufus T Firefly in the WH has no answers for us
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For many of us, it wouldn’t matter if he did, because everything he says or does is automatically rejected, not on the merits, but because they despise him so much for their partisan reasons.
And so, we’re seeing advocacy for keeping the economy shut down for months to come just because Trump wants to see it reopen. And, as one of the previous posters said, what if January, 2021 comes and there’s still no vaccine? Then what? Ever been vaccinated for the common cold? No. It’s not the same coronavirus as Covid 19, but it’s a coronavirus all the same. No vaccine. Are we that sure there will be one for Covid 19 that won’t, e.g., cause liver failure or neuro damage?

And the FDA is not magic or clairvoyant. How many “lawyer ads” do you see on tv for some drug that FDA approved? Every single one of those drugs that caused this or that for which there is now a class action suit was FDA approved. Every one of them.
 
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If anyone reading your post somehow has an unwavering belief that Trump is a victim every moment of every day, I promise they would agree with every word you wrote.
My problem is I know he is not a victim.
 
I wouldn’t characterize him as a “victim” either. I will characterize him as a president who has political enemies so intense in their ideological antipathy that they either have lost the ability to view his words and actions rationally or simply want to persuade others to lose their ability to do so.

I’m guessing it’s some of both.
 
People died during the Depression and because of it. Some literally starved. Some died of curable illnesses. Some died because of poor nutrition. Some died by their own hand. Some died of exposure to the elements when they lost their homes or utilities. Some died at the hands of criminals.

And it will happen again if we don’t adopt the best ways we have to reopen and to do it very soon. Right now, those ways aren’t all that great, but fortunately few are affected fatally and their protection could be improved.
 
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Trump is a victim of unreasonable people. Do you realize you just described that?
Truth is, Trump is the least ideological Republican ever
He has a few classics:
Pro life
Low taxes for the top bracket.
After that, he has no ideology of fiscal conservatism.
Trump’s ideology is fluid.
You are projecting Reagan not Trump.
So
I have no negative feelings about ideology. In my whole life:
I never liked bullies.
I never liked conceited people.
I am wary of the non empathetic.
I don’t like vindictiveness.
I don’t like liars.
And guess what. I still don’t.
I ask, why do those people like those traits frankly.
 
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I have not advocated for a method that costs lives or destroys lives even once. What I have said is the method promoted has done just that, one you seem to advocate, without any plan for accounting for people’s income. One would think if they were going to lobby for a particular plan, that part of the plan would account for the people involved. But all we hear is things like “we need to pull together” and “we need to come together as a society to defeat this virus.” Those meaningless platitudes don’t pay people. And like it or not, income is kind of necessary to our survival.
 
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Stability makes paychecks. Never heard of the" Instability Savings and Loan."
 
The health of the population grew during the depression and there is a myth of starvation. All you need is the will.
 
Maximus1 said:
The health of the population grew during the depression and there is a myth of starvation. All you need is the will.
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Spoken like a uber-right winger. People most assuredly did starve during the Depression. There are a lot of reasons given for scanty documentation. I realize it will be dismissed as “anecdotal”, but my grandfather knew of people who died of starvation. But it wasn’t always starvation as we ordinarily think of it. A lot of people died of poor nutrition conditions such as pellegra, which you can get from a largely cornbread diet.

But it is true that death rates decreased during part of the Depression. Lots of reasons are given for that, such as fewer auto accidents, fewer industrial accidents, less travel, and simple aging of the population during a period of low birth rates. An aging population always has increased longevity over a younger one. Poor nutrition can also result in increased susceptibility to disease generally.
 
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You may see him as a “victim”. I don’t. The real “victims” are the American people because obstructionist Democrats in congress are focused on thwarting or removing Trump.

Do you really think the former presidents and people in congress are not “conceited”.
 
There is no Christian ideal more suppressed than love of neighbor as a mutually beneficial lifestyle.
In the secular age of rugged individualism, the Golden Rule is viewed as Will provoked moments of sacrifice both unnatural and non beneficial in the short run, to pad some imagined asset ledger, to make sure ones celestial portfolio is up to snuff in garnering a fine dwelling place in the afterlife. In the nature of a venture capital investment now ready to pay off as we imagine waiting in some white space motor vehicle type line with some out of focus pearly structure ahead some distance from us still… ( It is OK to chuckle now, if we realize we haven’t updated our sophistication since Santa was taken from us)
Today we are caught off guard at the notion that Jesus might have dangled an investment of self that pays off immediately. That our perception of sacrifice is wrong FUNDEMENTALLY. In two seperate and independant passages, the Gospel reveals that we (pay attention) to this radical idea, which was actually an old Testeiment idea, forgotten, when Jesus taught that God is not interested in sacrifice, God is interested in Mercy. Almost shocking! Yet the Gospel emphasizes with redundancy. Jesus admonished to go and read God’s revelation in the old book, expressly and learn what it means.
We fight Covid, not with individualism, but by the realization that if I watch your back, and everybody does also, I watch my own. The Golden Rule with instant benefits or dire consequences if not followed.
Social media, and lots of recent free time, have allowed us to read many people’s discomfort with wearing masks to directly save neighbor with only a hope that others do the same to save you.
When we read declarations of rights and freedom to justify rebellion to selfless practices, we are reminded of the very weakness of " the enlightenment." Rights granted, with no concomitant duty. For Protestants, this was an attractive rebellion from our Church. But we remain our Church. A reminder of the BODY.
 
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PaulinVA said:
They don’t have to be vulnerable at the same rate to be vulnerable. Younger people are dying too, and it doesn’t make sense. THAT is alarming.
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Every time a person walks out the door, they are vulnerable. Life is a constant evaluation of the risks one takes. The vulnerability of the elderly and those with underlying conditions is overwhelmingly greater.
PaulinVA said:
Yes, they are a direct threat to me.
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Then I suggest you stay indoors and avoid contact with other human beings. That way the threat you seem to believe they present is mitigated. Recent information shows that, in NY, about 2/3 of hospitalization for covid, people are catching it at home. It is coughs and sneezes that spread it to those nearby. Wear your mask. Keep your distance. Control what you can control. That’s not me saying it. That’s experts.
Should those who go out wear their mask? Of course. In fact, that should be one of the prerequisites for going back to work. But we can’t stay shut down.
PaulinVA said:
We are wearing masks to protect other people ,
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I wear my mask to protect me. If it helps protect others, that’s great, too.
PaulinVA said:
People that aren’t willing to protect others should not be allowed in public.
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That sounds remarkably authoritarian. Under what other circumstances would you apply this?
 
JonNC said:
Every time a person walks out the door, they are vulnerable. Life is a constant evaluation of the risks one takes
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A highly regarded doctor, the head of his department in a large healthcare organization once asked me if I knew what the most dangerous time there is for a human being? I didn’t know, and told him so. He told me it’s the few moments immediately before and during the act of waking up. The body has to go from one whole-body mode of being to another that is vastly different. A lot of adrenalin gets pumped out, the heart suddenly beats faster, the metabolism increases, body temperature changes, organs start performing more. The stress is not perceived, but it’s huge.

Anyway, he added that waking up is the time when most heart attacks and strokes happen.
 
JonNC said:
It is coughs and sneezes that spread it to those nearby. Wear your mask. Keep your distance. Control what you can control. That’s not me saying it. That’s experts.
Should those who go out wear their mask? Of course. In fact, that should be one of the prerequisites for going back to work. But we can’t stay shut down.
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JonNC said:
I wear my mask to protect me. If it helps protect others, that’s great, too.
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That’s scientifically wrong. Your mask does not prevent you from inhaling droplets that contain the covid virus. Your mask protects others by restricting what you spew out when you breath, cough, sneeze, etc.

So, the wearing of masks protects others. It’s rude to not wear a mask in public and puts others at risk.

www.theatlantic.com

The Real Reason to Wear a Mask

Much of the confusion around masks stems from the conflation of two very different uses.
www.theatlantic.com www.theatlantic.com
JonNC said:
That sounds remarkably authoritarian. Under what other circumstances would you apply this?
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Since you are protecting others when you wear a mask, if you are unwilling to protect others, you shouldn’t be allowed in public. Pretty simple from a health perspective.
 
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PaulinVA said:
Since you are protecting others when you wear a mask, if you are unwilling to protect others, you shouldn’t be allowed in public. Pretty simple from a health perspective.
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Then no person should ever be allowed in public. People carry all manner of contagious and communicable.
In a free society, the people you lock away are the ones who have the disease, not the ones who don’t. That’s compassionate for both
 
Ridgerunner said:
Anyway, he added that waking up is the time when most heart attacks and strokes happen.
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And, of course, we do not recommend people not sleep in order to avoid the risk.

Obviously, there are risks in every aspect of life, including at home. It is why we gave smoke detectors, etc. My point, however, is that there are demographic groups in broad areas of the country that do not have a significant risk of dying from Covid. We should all wear masks, practice distancing and wash our hands, but we need to get the economy going again while we protect the most vulnerable
 
JonNC said:
In a free society, the people you lock away are the ones who have the disease, not the ones who don’t.
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If the goal is public health, the idea is to quarantine people who are contagious.
Given the paucity of testing in the US, and transmission from asymptomatic carriers we made the right decision to shelter-in-place. Where I live, this strategy has been very effective. Now, with strong mitigation of infection, we are gradually resuming normal operations.
 
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