Pandemic 2020: Layoff Related Deaths Exceed COVID-19 Deaths By 41%

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dr_Meinheimer
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
If the goal is public health, the idea is to quarantine people who are contagious.
I agree.
Given the paucity of testing in the US, and transmission from asymptomatic carriers we made the right decision to shelter-in-place.
Maybe, but that wasn’t the reason. The reason was to flatten the curve to keep the healthcare system from being overwhelmed. The process was remarkably successful on that goal.
Now, with strong mitigation of infection, we are gradually resuming normal operations.
And I think that is exactly what should happen The gradual-ness determined by states and locals based on their situations.
 
My point, however, is that there are demographic groups in broad areas of the country that do not have a significant risk of dying from Covid. We should all wear masks, practice distancing and wash our hands, but we need to get the economy going again while we protect the most vulnerable
There are those who believe the actual occurrence of the disease is three times the known number. I see where recently in a plant in which there are some 3,000 employees, 400 or so tested positive for the disease but not one of them was symptomatic. 3x might be an underestimate. In NYC, apparently, 25% of the deaths were of nursing home residents. It does seem as if there is a serious need to protect those people (and those of similar health who are nevertheless at home) but to let everybody else go to work with those cautionary measures you mention. It really isn’t going to do most people any good to continue lockdowns indefinitely.

As it was in the Depression, those who were best off were those with guaranteed incomes such as government-employed people at all levels. Some industries are more or less immune from layoffs such as the entertainment industry. Such people cannot counted on today to favor reopening the economy. But for most people, it’s a desperate need, and should happen.
 
Then no person should ever be allowed in public. People carry all manner of contagious and communicable.
That’s a “take my ball and go home” response to the discussion. We’re talking about a specific disease here. One that is spread by respiratory droplets.
In a free society, the people you lock away are the ones who have the disease, not the ones who don’t. That’s compassionate for both
I wouldn’t phrase it that way, but I agree if you substitute “lock away” with “wear a mask”.

So, as @dvdjs said in response to this, we don’t know who is infected, due to asymptomatic people and lack of testing.

So, everyone wear a mask. How hard is that?
 
Maybe, but that wasn’t the reason. The reason was to flatten the curve to keep the healthcare system from being overwhelmed. The process was remarkably successful on that goal.
No. Had we been able to identify the contagious, we would have only had to isolate them to flatten the curve.
 
40.png
F_Marturana:
Without the lockdowns, it would have been worse.
Of course, this is unprovable. I posted lots of stats related to the fact that the economic destruction we have wrought will lead to even more deaths, but we are told “you can’t say for sure”. Technically true, but if history is an indicator, quite accurate.
And now we have this report that may indicate that the experts were wrong and that the lockdowns don’t work…


There is a lot of reason to suggest that not only did the shelter at home policies not work (for a variety of reasons that scientists are now speculating), but they also helped to force the destruction of a world economy partly because fear got in the way of legitimate reason with a hasty reactionary response… As more and more data comes out, it continues to demonstrate that damage from a misplaced response plan will be far worse than the disease.
 
And the FDA is not magic or clairvoyant. How many “lawyer ads” do you see on tv for some drug that FDA approved? Every single one of those drugs that caused this or that for which there is now a class action suit was FDA approved. Every one of them.
The lawyers will be the last wave of the coronavirus outbreak, as the sue the surviving employers, and any drug companies. They will ensure more people lose their jobs.
 
So, everyone wear a mask. How hard is that?
This, I have no issue with. Why do you suppose a number of governors don’t take this approach, as opposed to determining what is and is not “essential?” (Which puts people out of work that don’t need to be…like bricklayers, or construction workers, etc) Those governors are acerbating the problem.
 
That’s right. Just like a plane is stressed to tolerances during take off.
 
That’s a “take my ball and go home” response to the discussion.
No, it isn’t. It is you are free to make choices. When government shuts down the economy, freedom to choose is removed by force. It may be the right decision, but the impact on individual remains
We’re talking about a specific disease here. One that is spread by respiratory droplets.
Almost always airborne, not on surfaces. Wear a mask and distance yourself reduces the possibility of droplets affecting you.
I wouldn’t phrase it that way, but I agree if you substitute “lock away” with “wear a mask”.
So, wearing a mask is sufficient if someone is positive? I think that might be insufficient.
Others should wear a mask, but stay at home demands may be a bridge too far in terms of rights.
So, as @dvdjs said in response to this, we don’t know who is infected, due to asymptomatic people and lack of testing.

So, everyone wear a mask. How hard is that?
It isn’t. Everyone should wear a mask. Now let’s open the economy.
 
No. Had we been able to identify the contagious, we would have only had to isolate them to flatten the curve.
And since we couldn’t, we shut down the economy to flatten the curve to keep the healthcare system from being overwhelmed.
And it worked.
 
Last edited:
Open wrong can be a decision to close soon , except for needless dead.
Do it wrong, this is the actual decision made. Like getting frustrated you can’t build something and choosing to shatter it into pieces
 
Hasn’t worked yet. When all goes wrong, we are going to be reminded we didn’t follow the CDC.
 
There are those who believe the actual occurrence of the disease is three times the known number. I see where recently in a plant in which there are some 3,000 employees, 400 or so tested positive for the disease but not one of them was symptomatic. 3x might be an underestimate. In NYC, apparently, 25% of the deaths were of nursing home residents. It does seem as if there is a serious need to protect those people (and those of similar health who are nevertheless at home) but to let everybody else go to work with those cautionary measures you mention. It really isn’t going to do most people any good to continue lockdowns indefinitely.
I think with the knowledge we have now, the smart policies for the time being will be based on protecting the vulnerable while continuing the economy, education and cultural life which protects us all.
 
Last edited:
Wrong is wrong.
The CDC guidelines are clear.
States opening in violation do so endangering human life.
And State reps can endanger that life if they choose to. Especially when Trump is pushing and supporting it, albeit, with implausible deniability
 
Wrong is wrong.
The CDC guidelines are clear.
The CDC also said at one point do not wear masks. It seems to me that might have been the single biggest error in the entire event.
Wrong is wrong? So far it is hard to know who or what is right or wrong. ISTM everyone is just trying their best.
And State reps can endanger that life if they choose to.
So, you are attacking governors for doing what they think is right for their states.
Especially when Trump is pushing and supporting it,
Pushing what? Social distancing? Wearing masks? Going slow and careful with reopening? I don’t see any state that is being reckless. Not Texas, not Georgia, not Colorado. I don’t even think Cuomo was reckless for sending Covid patients back into nursing homes. But, then, I don’t see a place for political opportunism in this crisis. Some do, on both sides.
 
So, wearing a mask is sufficient if someone is positive? I think that might be insufficient.
Others should wear a mask, but stay at home demands may be a bridge too far in terms of rights.
NO, everyone wear a mask because everyone could be positive. If you are positive, stay at home isolated from everyone.
It isn’t. Everyone should wear a mask. Now let’s open the economy.
In general, I think this is inevitable.

I wish that the US government had done more to prepare for the eventual opening, but I think with this administration that is too much to ask for.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top