Papal Mass in DC (was it me or was the music crazy?)

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What a great sacrifice it would have been for one who had the opportunity to sing at a Papal Mass to refuse to do so specifically for the reasons we have been discussing. And what a message it would have sent – well, it might have made the Music Directors think a fraction longer about what they were doing and why they were doing it
 
Again, I am wondering if the music sounded different live, than it did over the TV. Maybe it sounded not so bad there, or maybe it was easier to overlook the music because it was so exciting just being there. 🤷 But even if that was the case, than a truer statement than accusing everyone of not appreciating the moment would be, “I was able to overlook the bad music selections because it was so exciting just being there.”

But I will never in a million years will believe that loud clanging NOISE is conducive to prayer or proper reception of the Sacrament. Thank God there are some here who make some sense, and recognize the Pope’s wisdom on this issue.
 
Brownginger said:
What a great sacrifice it would have been for one who had the opportunity to sing at a Papal Mass to refuse to do so specifically for the reasons we have been discussing. And what a message it would have sent – well, it might have made the Music Directors think a fraction longer about what they were doing and why they were doing it
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I find it easier to forgive the ones who performed, than the ones who chose the selections. They need to have their head (or ears) examined.:rolleyes:
 
Ana said:
I find it easier to forgive the ones who performed, than the ones who chose the selections. They need to have their head (or ears) examined.:rolleyes:
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Good Grief, you sound like you entirely miss the point of Mass, our faith, and what it’s all about. We are called to forgive, first and foremost! You truly find it difficult to forgive music selections that you disagree with?

I liked taocpa’s post.
 
lovesMary said:
Good Grief, you sound like you entirely miss the point of Mass, our faith, and what it’s all about. We are called to forgive, first and foremost! You truly find it difficult to forgive music selections that you disagree with?

I liked taocpa’s post.
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Calm down, it was just an expression.:confused: I certainly don’t need to forgive anyone of anything, no offense was committed to me,

I am also not surprised that you would like the post that accuses those who dislike the music selection, of missing the point of the Mass. To continuosly thrust the same allegation only to have it defended over and over again seemsto me like a purposeful attempt to hinder the arrival to the truth. The music was out of place during Communion. Simple as that.

(Ahem) again … Not liking or agreeing with the appropriateness of the music selections can in NO WAY implies that one missed the point of the Mass. Please prove with logical reasoning that doesn’t involve emotional speculation, that to dislike the music means the whole Mass is blackballed.

The point of the Mass is to celebrate Jesus in the Eucharist, not put on a colorful dazzling display meant to highlight the multiculturalism of America. The point of the Mass is the Eucharist. the music during communion should have pointed to the source and summit of our faith. The time to display our beautiful heritage could have been displayed at many other times during the Popes visit.
 
My only point is faulting the musical selection is it not some people’s preference or maybe this Holy Father’s, but nowhere to my knowledge has any Pontiff spoke infallibly about Sacred Music. I seriously doubt they ever will. The people who planned this liturgy did the best they could and they were darned if they did and darned if they didn’t.

From what I do know, they had 20 minutes to complete Communion. The Holy Father sat down before my sister and I ever got up to receive. There were bound to be gaps and points at which it looked like the choir was performing.

It did sound different live. First, from our perspective the sun was pounding on us and the choir the whole day. I spoke with a choir member this morning who said she was still exhausted. I was so burned out I collapsed when I got home at 3pm. It was difficult to concentrate on anything after about one hour and 15 minutes unless you were in the shade and at least a good 2/3rd’s of the stadium and the congregation were baking in the sun.

The people on the infield faired no better. They started passing out water to them. Priests, deacons and lay people started using their programs as hats. They only used the umbrellas during Communion to shield the priests from the sun.

I am only sharing this not to excuse anything but it wasn’t comfortable to sit there and at some point, I frankly didn’t pay attention to music or much else except where I was headed to Communion. I watched the Holy Father distribute Communion on the Jumbotron. The music is the last thing I cared about. I found parts of it very good from what I remember. I taped the Mass watched it again and thought it was fine.

It’s not that I don’t think anyone is not entitled to have an opinion. I understand the Holy Father has expressed his preferences for music during Mass, but it is not written in stone. My only issue stems from the fact that having been there and knowing the people involved in planning the events of the liturgy (and knowing they are not liberal liturgists), people could at least show some understanding they were in a difficult position trying to balance many different issues thrown at them.

And remember, it was approved by the Vatican, most specifically, Msgr. Marini, if I recall correctly.

Tom
 
taocpa said:
My only point is faulting the musical selection is it not some people’s preference or maybe this Holy Father’s, but nowhere to my knowledge has any Pontiff spoke infallibly about Sacred Music. I seriously doubt they ever will. The people who planned this liturgy did the best they could and they were darned if they did and darned if they didn’t.

From what I do know, they had 20 minutes to complete Communion. The Holy Father sat down before my sister and I ever got up to receive. There were bound to be gaps and points at which it looked like the choir was performing.

It did sound different live. First, from our perspective the sun was pounding on us and the choir the whole day. I spoke with a choir member this morning who said she was still exhausted. I was so burned out I collapsed when I got home at 3pm. It was difficult to concentrate on anything after about one hour and 15 minutes unless you were in the shade and at least a good 2/3rd’s of the stadium and the congregation were baking in the sun.

The people on the infield faired no better. They started passing out water to them. Priests, deacons and lay people started using their programs as hats. They only used the umbrellas during Communion to shield the priests from the sun.

I am only sharing this not to excuse anything but it wasn’t comfortable to sit there and at some point, I frankly didn’t pay attention to music or much else except where I was headed to Communion. I watched the Holy Father distribute Communion on the Jumbotron. The music is the last thing I cared about. I found parts of it very good from what I remember. I taped the Mass watched it again and thought it was fine.

It’s not that I don’t think anyone is not entitled to have an opinion. I understand the Holy Father has expressed his preferences for music during Mass, but it is not written in stone. My only issue stems from the fact that having been there and knowing the people involved in planning the events of the liturgy (and knowing they are not liberal liturgists), people could at least show some understanding they were in a difficult position trying to balance many different issues thrown at them.

And remember, it was approved by the Vatican, most specifically, Msgr. Marini, if I recall correctly.

Tom
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Thank you, Tom. I appreciate what you are trying to say. And I also appreciate that you allow those to have an opinion about the selection of the music, without being accused of a dead spirituality.

I also appreciate that the directors were trying to do their best, hopefully those in New York can build upon that first attempt and choose some selections more fitting to the circumstances. I wish them the best during this difficult and rewarding endeavor.

Regardless of the music and the sun, you were lucky to be there, and I would have switched places with you in a heartbeat. But I still would have brought earplugs.😃
 
taocpa, I believe that there was much to fault with the logistics involved. The very last persons to “blame” are those who participated, giving of themselves and their talent so that a Papal Mass could be God’s gift to America. If anything, it is the turning of a Papal Mass into a Papal event.

This may go back to the need of the Faithful to exhibit their loyalty to the Holy Father, something that in these times has been very difficult. It may also go back to the very real need of the Holy Father to give and return the love of those Faithful. Theoretically, the ideal way to do all of the above is over the breaking of the Eucharistic Bread. In reality, these open-air Masses have proven to be less than ideal: in Denver, many people were stricken by the heat, and we have read in this thread about similar situations elsewhere in the world.

The Mass is not intended to be a mass event (pun unintended). There is always the very real potential for abuse of the Eucharist, and creating such a situation is hardly ever acceptable. Then there are the questions here debated, about pleasing everyone in the audience; and in today’s world, of pleasing the media. As I read it, I believe that is what you were saying in the last sentence of your latest post, about trying to balance the many different issues.

This is a real dilemma for the Holy Father – how to reach the maximum number of his flock in a very short period of time. In my humble opinion, it would be much simpler, if huge outdoor Mass is the chosen option, just to have Mass. I know that the few times I have been present at a great liturgical celebration, I was impressed both spiritually and emotionally just by being in the presence of so many clergy, bishops, cardinals, and fellow lay Catholics. I missed viewing the Mass at St. Patrick’s today; perhaps that is what happened there. Hopefully it is what will happen in the future: “just” Mass, traditional Catholic music, and, of course, the Pope. Jesus and the Pope: who needs the “many different issues”?
 
The music at St. Patrick’s Cathedral was beautiful. A fitting gift for our Lord and Holy Father Benedict. Shame on Washington DC. Shame.
 
CatholicNerd said:
The music at St. Patrick’s Cathedral was beautiful. A fitting gift for our Lord and Holy Father Benedict. Shame on Washington DC. Shame.
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Liked your siggie. Would have quoted it if I could.
Can’t wait to see the Mass at St. Patrick’s.👍
 
I will be attending the Papal Mass at Yankee Stadium tomorrow, and I hope it is better then what we saw in D.C. I am a faithful Catholic who attends the TLM, and a youth (22). I hope it really is in keeping with tradition and the Holy Father’s wishes for proper liturgical worship.
 
lovesMary said:
Good Grief, you sound like you entirely miss the point of Mass, our faith, and what it’s all about. We are called to forgive, first and foremost! You truly find it difficult to forgive music selections that you disagree with?

I liked taocpa’s post.
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I don’t know what you are reading, but Ana has not said in any of her posts that she entirley missed the point of The Mass. Nor has she said anything about not forgiving the music selection. I am in total agreement with her the music was innapropriate for The Liturgy. You disagree fine, you will notice because I disagree with you I am not accusing you of missing the point of The Mass. It would do well for you to offer others the same courtesy.😦
 
taocpa said:
My only point is faulting the musical selection is it not some people’s preference or maybe this Holy Father’s, but nowhere to my knowledge has any Pontiff spoke infallibly about Sacred Music. I seriously doubt they ever will. The people who planned this liturgy did the best they could and they were darned if they did and darned if they didn’t.

From what I do know, they had 20 minutes to complete Communion. The Holy Father sat down before my sister and I ever got up to receive. There were bound to be gaps and points at which it looked like the choir was performing.

It did sound different live. First, from our perspective the sun was pounding on us and the choir the whole day. I spoke with a choir member this morning who said she was still exhausted. I was so burned out I collapsed when I got home at 3pm. It was difficult to concentrate on anything after about one hour and 15 minutes unless you were in the shade and at least a good 2/3rd’s of the stadium and the congregation were baking in the sun.

The people on the infield faired no better. They started passing out water to them. Priests, deacons and lay people started using their programs as hats. They only used the umbrellas during Communion to shield the priests from the sun.

I am only sharing this not to excuse anything but it wasn’t comfortable to sit there and at some point, I frankly didn’t pay attention to music or much else except where I was headed to Communion. I watched the Holy Father distribute Communion on the Jumbotron. The music is the last thing I cared about. I found parts of it very good from what I remember. I taped the Mass watched it again and thought it was fine.

It’s not that I don’t think anyone is not entitled to have an opinion. I understand the Holy Father has expressed his preferences for music during Mass, but it is not written in stone. My only issue stems from the fact that having been there and knowing the people involved in planning the events of the liturgy (and knowing they are not liberal liturgists), people could at least show some understanding they were in a difficult position trying to balance many different issues thrown at them.

And remember, it was approved by the Vatican, most specifically, Msgr. Marini, if I recall correctly.

Tom
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What does that all have to do with the music not being appropiate for the Liturgy? Actually as I have said in another post the Flute or whatever it was playing, as The Pope was about to consecrate The Body and Blood was downright annoying!
 
I posted on the mass in DC because I was so horrified, and so hurt by what was done to the mass there, and also the insult to the Holy Father. But the mass today, and also the Holy Father’s time spent with the young people at the seminary, just about erased the bad feelings I went to bed with. His face was so changed from yesterday, and his face is also changed from the man he was as Joseph Ratzinger. Can you see an ounce of ego in it? Can you not see Christ in it? It makes one convinced of the action of the Holy Spirit on us–on him! The proof is so enormous, it makes me believe for me, as well, this kind of love is possible. He was not this man! This man is transformed.

Didn’t the kids make you proud? Didn’t it contrast so forcefully with every single other portrayal of youth in our culture? Wasn’t it truly beautiful?

Although I do not like the new mass at all, and even though the responsorial seems forced in whatever setting, I can find nothing to complain of in the mass at St. Patrick’s today. If we could continue to celebrate like that, perhaps we could heal.

I am so much comforted. Perhaps I shouldn’t watch the Yankee Stadium mass tomorrow!!! It is possible that these outdoor gatherings are simply not feasible. But we needn’t miss the many good effects that people have mentioned here. I was thinking that perhaps a ceremony and performances, with words from the Holy Father ,could be substituted for them; people could have an excellent experience, their kids could have that experience, without the exploitation of the liturgy that way.

With peace to all this evening, and more patience for me,
 
Janet, I agree with everything you said, yes the Mass at St Patricks was beautifull. The Youth Rally was so wonderfull to see. and you are so right about How Our Holy Father looked today. I am going to watch the Mass at Yankee Stadium tomorrow, from what I have heard the music will not be the same as in DC so we will see!
 
Ana said:
I was only to catch the end of it, from consecration on, but the music was crazy. No rhyme or reason. Some of it in my opinion was way too loud and peppy (like you were supposed to jump up amd clap your hands), for distributing and receiving the Most Holy Sacrament. There was a close up of Pope Benedict and I swear it looked like he wished he had earplugs.:rolleyes:

I guess, it was an attempt to represent multi-cultural America. It sounded crazy though. They should have stuck with traditional Catholic and Latin hymns IMO.

Still was awesome though.🙂

Anyone know where I can find a record of the homily?
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I didn’t think the music was crazy.

Here is the homily.

And here is the missal.
 
Thank you Rebecca for the links.
I am glad you liked the music. 🙂

I thought it was horrible, and look forward to the Mass in New York, which they assure us will have music more suitable to the Sacred Liturgy.

I should have started a poll. It would have been interesting to see the results.
 
Perhaps this part of the homily is appropriate:

“The Church, too, sees signs of immense promise in her many strong parishes and vital movements, in the enthusiasm for the faith shown by so many young people, and also in the number of those who each year embrace the Catholic faith, and in a greater interest in prayer and catechesis. At the same time she senses, often painfully, the presence of division and polarization in her midst…]”
 
Ana said:
Thank you Rebecca for the links.
I am glad you liked the music. 🙂
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I listen to what is being expressed in the music. Whether a Gregorian chant or guitar’d folk song, the expression is about God. And, I highly doubt God is critiquing the music style.
 
RebeccaJ said:
I listen to what is being expressed in the music. Whether a Gregorian chant or guitar’d folk song, the expression is about God. And, I highly doubt God is critiquing the music style.
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Rebecca, if you are familiar with the Old Testament, God is extremely detailed and picky about how He is worshipped. He gave explicit instructions to the Jews about the construction and furnishing of the tabernacle and the temple. This is in addition to the teaching of the Church about sacred music that counts as our Tradition and our heritage. Following this tradition should be a source of joy and obedience, not indifferentism. So we have evidence that God cares about liturgy as much as He cares about abortion and divorce and homosexuality and never cheating the poor or the working man.
 
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