Papal Mass in DC (was it me or was the music crazy?)

[Ana]

janet_baker76;3582807:

Yes I am glad it was on Fox Father Burke and another Priest who was on made several refferences to The Revernence of The Mass and how it seemed many people were hesitant to clap because of the Reverence. They also mentioned how DC did not have that kind of Reverence. I was was happy they mentioned that.

Fr. Burke is now guilty of divisiveness and polarization!!

Finally, some sanity. Thank you. Jesus.

Janet, his name is mentioned in the first couple pages of this thread, I am not sure where, but it’s close to the beginning. I’d look for you but I am on my way out the door.

ETA … I just looked and I did NOT see it there, sorry!

 

[Nordar]

Because y’all are bagging on a sacred Mass. That I thought was beautiful, with the Pope delivering a beautiful message, and yes, he is loved.

Have a Blessed day.

Tell me why is it when some disagree with what others say on these boards they get all agitated and angry?.

You really need to relax, who was bagging (as you put it) on a Sacred Mass? I do not recall one single person saying anything negative about The Liturgy; It was the music we object to. There is a huge difference!

OK I get that you think the music was beautifull, fine you are more than entitled to your oppinion.
Others myself included, think the music was absurdly abusive to Th Liturgy. and I might add it seems that there are some Priests who are in agreement with that assessment. We are just as entilted to Our feelings as you are yours.

You thought the music was beautifull.
We did not. end of story!

 

[janet_baker76]

Nordar;3582844:

ETA … I just looked and I did NOT see it there, sorry!

Ana, thank you for thinking of it, though! I didn’t see it either. By the way, could you tell me what ETA means? And also IMO? And also LOL? (I think the latter is Lots of Laughs, right?)

Thank you for a lot of things.

 

[Ana]

Ana;3582871:

Ana, thank you for thinking of it, though! I didn’t see it either. By the way, could you tell me what ETA means? And also IMO? And also LOL? (I think the latter is Lots of Laughs, right?)

Thank you for a lot of things.

Your welcome.

ETA: edited to add

IMO: in my opinion IMHO:in my humble opinion

Lol: Laugh out loud

 

[qubica]

Did you notice the amount of smiling Pope Benedict did during the New York Mass?

Ladies and Gentlemen, I think divine intervention has happened in this Pope’s visit to the US. The Washington DC Mass is perfectly juxtaposed against the New York Mass. Same liturgy, virtually the same setting, with a COMPLETELY different holiness and reverence attached to the liturgy.

The DC Mass was preening and self-referential in it’s treatment of the music and behaviors. The New York Mass brought us closer, MUCH closer, to celebrating the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass with the angels in heaven. Praise be to God! It even included the ‘multicultural’ aspect, but was done so much better. The DC Mass looked like a Miss Universe pageant at times with everyone in their native garb and native language.

Ultimately, we realize we are ALL God’s children and the multicultural aspect doesn’t seem to be important to constantly display, because we are all citizens of heaven, if we so choose.

We got to see the two treatments almost side by side. I think this is for a reason.

 

[Nordar]

Nordar;3582452:

This is good, Fox news! Means a lot of people heard it!

Say, since you’re answering all my questions, who is the salt-and-pepper priest assisting the Holy Father on his right every time?

Janet did you mean Cardinal Egan?

 

[Nordar]

The longer this thread goes on, the more diffused the argument becomes. But now that the visit is ending, we’ve got a better view. The sight of those young seminarians in New York brought tears to my eyes, and Lo! one I recognized from the seminary telecast sang the Gospel beautifully in Yankee Stadium. If these young people are the Church’s future, we’re in good hands.

Our problem is the older generation, the 60s kids with miters who are in the habit of talking down to the faithful, theologically, liturgically, and musically.

Pope Benedict is a learned, humble, and holy man. To watch his mind working in those homilies was a grace in itself. What I learned from this visit is that we are being looked after, that the great shepherd is mindful of His sheep.

By the way, here in western Massachusetts, we have a young priest who is saying a Latin Mass. At first it was every first Sunday in the month, but now it’s every Sunday.

Agreed:thumbsup:
Did you know that The Pope wrote all the Homilies and speeches he made himself?

 

[Nordar]

Did you notice the amount of smiling Pope Benedict did during the New York Mass?

Ladies and Gentlemen, I think divine intervention has happened in this Pope’s visit to the US. The Washington DC Mass is perfectly juxtaposed against the New York Mass. Same liturgy, virtually the same setting, with a COMPLETELY different holiness and reverence attached to the liturgy.

The DC Mass was preening and self-referential in it’s treatment of the music and behaviors. The New York Mass brought us closer, MUCH closer, to celebrating the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass with the angels in heaven. Praise be to God! It even included the ‘multicultural’ aspect, but was done so much better. The DC Mass looked like a Miss Universe pageant at times with everyone in their native garb and native language.

Ultimately, we realize we are ALL God’s children and the multicultural aspect doesn’t seem to be important to constantly display, because we are all citizens of heaven, if we so choose.

We got to see the two treatments almost side by side. I think this is for a reason.

:tiphat: well said!

 

[Brownginger]

I have this wonderful fantasy that the Holy Father, being internet savvy, has read this thread and has become aware of the various opinions stated herein. But being a realist as well, I am going to try to make time in the next few days to write a letter to him as well as to the USCCB setting out my impression of the music that was performed at the Papal Masses in the U. S. I realize that it is likely that the Pope himself will not see the letter, but perhaps the Holy Spirit will direct the person who does read it to relay to the Pope the gist of what I will say. If each of us who have posted here would do the same, the impact of our position would be greatly increased.

I just want to reiterate a point I have made throughout my posts, i.e., that by its very nature, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass does not allow for extraneous addenda such as hymns. These may legitimately be permitted either prior to the beginning of Mass and after its conclusion. The music of the Mass prayers themselves, e.g., the Kyrie, the Gloria, must be in keeping with the purpose of the prayers so as not to distract the minds of those present from the Sacrifice. The prayers – spoken and sung – must coalesce into one prayer both as written and “performed.”

I believe that there would be little disagreement as to the propriety of liturgical music were the Music Directors to accept that their most significant responsibility is to have the people participate in the prayers of the Mass. After that, they may choose one or two *Catholic *hymns that reflect the daily or seasonal liturgical theme. They are not Broadway producers, commissioned to achieve the entertaining or the shocking or the political. They are not putting together a concert that needs variety in songs and instruments. Theirs is rather a humble job that has great import; and it must be done with an eye to faithfully comporting with liturgical norms that are centuries old.

Lastly, reforms of the reforms will not happen accidentally. We all must pray constantly that the integrity of the Divine gift of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass be returned universally. I believe that in some of our seminaries, they are getting it just right. The Holy Spirit will not leave this to mere human ability to correct. He will lead these young men into the Light and the Light will shine far and wide ; and centuries from now, when people look back on this thread, they will wonder what all the fuss was about:thumbsup:

 

[janet_baker76]

janet_baker76;3582807:

Janet did you mean Cardinal Egan?

Well, I don’t know, Nordar, since I don’t know him. The man I mean was in a cassock and surplice, not the vestments worn by the bishops, though, unless he was specially garbed to be an assistant. The man I mean was constantly moving people into place, as was the similarly garbed priest on the left of the Holy Father.

 

[Nordar]

Hewull lead these young men into the Light; and centuries from now, when people look back on this thread, they will wonder what all the fuss was about:thumbsup:

My prayer is that this is a fullfilling prophecy:thumbsup:

 

[Nordar]

Nordar;3583099:

Well, I don’t know, Nordar, since I don’t know him. The man I mean was in a cassock and surplice, not the vestments worn by the bishops, though, unless he was specially garbed to be an assistant. The man I mean was constantly moving people into place, as was the similarly garbed priest on the left of the Holy Father.

I know who you mean but the salt and pepper hair threw me off because I thought his hair was darker. I went back and looked because I had taped the Mass and he did have salt and pepper hair, so I don’t know who he was.

 

[Michael_Neal]

I watched this mass again and I have to say that it was even worse than I first experienced. The music is so jarring and distracting for a mass, I was expecting someone to break out into a rap performance at some point.

I think the intentions were good on the musicians part, not sure about the organizers but in the interest of Charity I will just pray that some changes are made in America with the liturgical music.

I love all types of music and think these art forms have their place in our religion just not in mass where it is supposed to be universal not divisive. We are there to worship God not the multitude of heritages of the attendees.

Pride of your heritage should not overshadow worship of God.

 

[janet_baker76]

janet_baker76;3583142:

I went back and looked because I had taped the Mass QUOTE]

Well, that was heroic! I hope I never have to look at the Washington Papal mass again in my whole life! May God replay you, Dios le pague!

 

[Nordar]

Nordar;3583156:

janet_baker76;3583142:

I went back and looked because I had taped the Mass QUOTE]

Well, that was heroic! I hope I never have to look at the Washington Papal mass again in my whole life! May God replay you, Dios le pague!

Indeed

 

[MonFrere]

I was reading information at another Catholic forum about the Thursday Mass in Washington D.C. What I read about the music didn’t surprise me in the least. There was all manner is disapproval and the typical comments of “liturgical abuse” in music and all the usual quotes from Church documents.

I would like to give a defense of the music.

First of all, we are members of the “Catholic” or UNIVERSAL Church. When the Church first began is was almost exclusively Jewish. As the gentiles began to grow in numbers their influence caused a clash in cultures. It took time for these issues to work themselves out. I think there were groups still keeping the Jewish sabbath well into the Patristic period. The Church had a challenge to its unity with those who wanted to keep a stronger Jewish connection with the Christian Church. Gentiles had no emotional attachment to Jewish tradition and in time the Jewish influence faded.

Through the centuries the Church dominated Europe. It would have also dominated North Africa had it not been for Muslim expansion. The Church had flexibility in its liturgies until the Reformation. For unity sake the liturgy became standardized. And for 500 years it basically stayed the same.

Today, the Church is finding its greatest growth in the Southern Hemisphere - especially Africa and Central and South America. The culture is dramatically different than European culture. The Church, wisely allows for these divergent cultures to be expressed in their liturgies. What is liturgical acceptable in Africa is unacceptable in Europe (and the U.S.). This is fine UNTIL we consider all the cultural diversity and pluralism in the U.S. The world is undergoing a dramatic shift in populations. The U.S. have an enormous diversity ethnically and culturally in its population – the immigrant populations, especially from the south of the border, is bring with it a culture that’s more Catholic than Protestant – but also more indigenous to Mexican culture than American culture.

I’m simply saying that because of all the cultural diversity in the U.S. the liturgical templates approved after the Protestant Reformation that were very Euro-centric does not mesh with the cultural diversity (that’s liturgically reflectivity is allowed within Catholicism) found in the U.S.

So when people make negative comments about Thursdays Mass bowing under the pressure of multicultural diversity don’t take into account the diversity found in 21st century America and their legitimate liturgical possibilities I get a little miffed. This is not saying that I didn’t identify better with the liturgies done at St. Patrick’s and Yankee Stadium. I take my hat off to the musicians at St. Patricks - they were awesome! However, the musical performances at Washington D.C. were well done – even though I’m not into drums and such like in liturgy. I think if it’s acceptable in indigenous African liturgy it MUST BE accepted by Africans living in America.

When we (past immigrants of Europe) perform the great music of Catholic European ancestry we are saying - this is “who I am” and I offer this to God. I think all cultures need to be allowed the same opportunity. In the small rural town I live in we had an African lady join our parish. She was very enthusiastic but she just couldn’t relate to our (my) rather conservative choice of liturgical music. She eventually changed parishes to be with something which she would more easily relate. Some would say she now lives in America - she needs to become American (and learn our music and adapt to our culture). Within some limits - yes - but still she should not have to give up her identity and cultural expression.

Simply said, we should remember we are “Catholic” and as we early on had to learn to synthesize Jew and Gentile - we need to allow for the complete diversity God has made in the human family especially as the church is growing in members from every race and nation as the gospel is preached in all the world.

MonFrere

 

[CBS]

Just how many threads do we have to have on this forum about people whining about the music in the Mass.

Did anyone actually pay attention to the Popes addresses or the Mass itself or is everyone just going to moan about the far less important music.

I think the hierarchy of the church knows a bit more about liturgy than the complainers.

I wasn’t impressed with it, but I put my focus on more important things like the fact that the Holy Father bothered to come visit us and speak to us.

The complaining is getting ridiculous.

 

[Nordar]

I have no clue what multi cultural influence has to do with The Reverence of The Liturgy?

The Mass is not a time for entertainment, it is our acknowledging Jesus dying for us at his crucifixtion, and celebrating his rising from the dead.

Pope Benedict’s message is the return to a much more reverent Mass, how are you missing what he is telling us? :banghead:

The Mass is the Mass, you don't change it by adding bongo drums and annoying flute music that is blaring, during it.
It is not a venue for fitting in what is pleasing to one's culture, it is a time for us to come to Jesus and Celebrate The Eucharist,

Just for the record I come from another country, just because I am living here does not mean I want the music of my country at Mass. that is not why I am there, It is not about me or my culture it is about God.  Where I do come from the Mass is celebrated with much reverence and the music during Mass is beautifull.

 

[Nordar]

Just how many threads do we have to have on this forum about people whining about the music in the Mass.

Did anyone actually pay attention to the Popes addresses or the Mass itself or is everyone just going to moan about the far less important music.

I think the hierarchy of the church knows a bit more about liturgy than the complainers.

I wasn’t impressed with it, but I put my focus on more important things like the fact that the Holy Father bothered to come visit us and speak to us.

The complaining is getting ridiculous.

Then don’t read the posts!

 

[rlg94086]

Then don’t read the posts!

Oh, but the irony is priceless!

CBS:

The complaining is getting ridiculous.