Paradox of the beginning of creation

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Glassjester said:
For a physical universe to exist, even as a single point, time and space must exist. Is that right?
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According to Big Bang theory everything has started from a singularity. So there was no time or space at that point.
 
AndrewW94 said:
I’m confused exactly what’s causing you difficulty in understanding this. Can you spell it out more carefully (ideally in some formal language)? As far as I can gather you are saying something along the lines of:
These premises are not consistent:
(1) God is eternal.
(2) God created the universe.
(3) The universe was created at a finite point in time.
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The point is a little hard to grasp but lets see if I can make it easier: Our universe has a specific age. One can ask a question whether God can create an older or a younger universe? For older universe God should wait a little longer before the act of creation, but God cannot wait longer since he is timeless. In another point there is no time reference point in God’s mind for any action hence timeless God cannot create anything. And this is the paradox for timeless God.
AndrewW94 said:
But these seem to be consistent so I’ll wait for clarification before responding.
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I hope that clear now. To be honest paradox even apply for the case that universe is not caused by God and it is the result of an accident.
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Bahman said:
So are you saying that OP cannot be correct because I am not a good observer like God?
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This is basically what everyone has said on all your threads… Bahman = Not God.

On a side note sonce I am fairly newer to CAF I clicked through “threads started by Bahman” and going years back you have basically post this OP in never ending fashion God/time/space time/timeless/eternal…

But what gets me is in the short time I have known you you have often (to everyone but you) contradicted yourself simultaneously agreeing and disagreeing with people in mind bending ways…

BUT so do your threads… you have theeads denoucing things - then proclaiming them - then denouncing …

WTH man? Is it just for conversation or do you have a personal purpose? Heck if you are just talking to talk I will talkk within the RoB just for fun… but if you are actually seeking something with a purpose. Idk…you need to evaluate your approach.
 
Bahman said:
I hope that clear now. To be honest paradox even apply for the case that universe is not caused by God and it is the result of an accident.
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So you diagree with EVERY single known explanation or theory held by everyone and you don’t think that maybe you are approaching your ideas incorrectly? I mean you are creating a new theism in which Bahman disagrees with every theist, AND every athesit…wth is a Bahman than? :banghead::banghead:
 
Bahman said:
According to Big Bang theory everything has started from a singularity. So there was no time or space at that point.
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Alright.

Without any space in which to exist, did anything material exist?
 
Glassjester said:
Alright.

Without any space in which to exist, did anything material exist?
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Some people believe that Big Bang is a point with infinite mass density. I think that that point is paradoxical. Please read post number #43.
 
Bahman said:
Some people believe that Big Bang is a point with infinite mass density. I think that that point is paradoxical. Please read post number #43.
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Then it’s worth asking again:

Do you think that, without any space in which to exist, any actual material existed?
 
Bahman said:
And where is your counter argument?
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Well, if you really want to know, it would be that you have not actually demonstrated that there is any sort of logical contradiction or dilemma. You’ve merely stated that there is one. So, actually offer a compelling argument that is more than unfounded conclusion, and there would be a discussion worth having.
 
dahbeegs said:
Well, if you really want to know, it would be that you have not actually demonstrated that there is any sort of logical contradiction or dilemma. You’ve merely stated that there is one. So, actually offer a compelling argument that is more than unfounded conclusion, and there would be a discussion worth having.
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I argue that it is impossible to have a universe (with God or without God)!
 
Bahman said:
I argue that it is impossible to have a universe (with God or without God)!
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And yet, here we are, with a universe. Again, no reasons given for your assertion, just unfounded claim. If you’re going to make an argument that everything we perceive is a lie and existence itself is a fantasy, then I think you need to start with a single thread on that topic. None of your other multitude of topics are really worth having if you remain unconvinced on that point, and would explain why they all descend into nonsense and ever-deepening rabbit holes.
 
dahbeegs said:
And yet, here we are, with a universe. Again, no reasons given for your assertion, just unfounded claim. If you’re going to make an argument that everything we perceive is a lie and existence itself is a fantasy, then I think you need to start with a single thread on that topic. None of your other multitude of topics are really worth having if you remain unconvinced on that point, and would explain why they all descend into nonsense and ever-deepening rabbit holes.
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Do you understand my arguments? If yes what is wrong with them?
 
Bahman said:
Do you understand my arguments? If yes what is wrong with them?
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What is wrong is that you’ve just declared that the universe you currently reside in cannot logically exist. The fact that you’re even posting about it proves your assertion incorrect, so you’d better reevaluate your perception of logic, let alone truth.
 
Glassjester said:
Then it’s worth asking again:

Do you think that, without any space in which to exist, any actual material existed?
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As far as general relativity can tell us we can have space without mass. The space however cannot have any curvature. You can also have no space and time. You can read more here.
 
SilverShadow22 said:
What is wrong is that you’ve just declared that the universe you currently reside in cannot logically exist. The fact that you’re even posting about it proves your assertion incorrect, so you’d better reevaluate your perception of logic, let alone truth.
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I have already checked my argument so I am sure there is no flaw within. You cannot find any flaw in my argument either. So we have to accept that there exist a paradox.
 
Bahman said:
I have already checked my argument so I am sure there is no flaw within. You cannot find any flaw in my argument either. So we have to accept that there exist a paradox.
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A paradox - a seeming impossibility - is different from what you declared, which is a *logical impossibility. *

Several people found all kinds of flaws in your arguments; you just won’t accept them.
 
Bahman said:
Do you understand my arguments? If yes what is wrong with them?
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Bahman, I can say with a high degree of certitude that I have never understood any argument you have ever made, because they have all been utter gibberish.
 
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