Parent of a pregnant minor

[Xantippe]

Please re-read my post a little slower. I never said any of these things! Of course the OP’s daughter isn’t considering abortion! I never said that she was!! And of course there is no Catholic teaching requiring adoption of the children of young unmarried girls. I never said that there was such a teaching. I said that **if it is the daughter’s decision **adoption can be a wonderful, mature and loving choice that not only places the baby in a stable family with a mother and father who want it very much but also allows the daughter the opportunity to reach her full potential and achieve her dreams. Those are GOOD things and not against Catholic teaching.

The problem is that the initial post was that the daughter DID NOT wish to adopt her baby and her father (the OP) was very negative about her keeping the baby.

In this situation, is the daughter really “choosing” adoption or is she being coerced into it? Given how strong the OP’s initial position was, I think he should make it clear to his daughter that she does have the option of keeping her baby, but that there would have to be significant adjustments in her lifestyle to accommodate the baby.

Again, if the daughter is not choosing adoption, it’s not a loving and mature choice on her part.

 

[marbleartist]

You don’t appear to know much about the adoption process or about Catholic Charities! The daughter will have her own counselor and will explore all options. If she decides to keep the baby, they will provide help and support. If she decides, after prayerful discernment, to give the baby up for adoption, **it will be her decision only **. SHE is the one that will sign the papers and own the decision. If she’s unwilling to do that, or even if it is suspected that she is unwilling, they won’t accept it. It she should change her mind after giving birth, she is free to do so. Papers aren’t signed until after the birth anyway. If she is conflicted, the baby will be placed in a receiving home until she makes her decision. No one is allowed to force her to do anything. That’s why I like Catholic Charities over private adoption, where there can perhaps be pressure applied. IMHO of course, after saying this, my only private adoption experience was one in which the birth mother changed her mind after giving birth- so possibly all adoption options always default to the birth mother. I would hope so.

 

[marbleartist]

One more thought- there is always open adoption. That is the option where the birth mother is known to the child, even though it is adopted. The adopting parents raise it and support it, but the birth mother remains a part of the child’s life. This option is becoming increasingly popular and may be a good compromise.

 

[allycat10]

The problem is that the initial post was that the daughter DID NOT wish to adopt her baby and her father (the OP) was very negative about her keeping the baby.

In this situation, is the daughter really “choosing” adoption or is she being coerced into it? Given how strong the OP’s initial position was,** I think he should make it clear to his daughter that she does have the option of keeping her baby, but that there would have to be significant adjustments in her lifestyle to accommodate the baby.**

Again, if the daughter is not choosing adoption, it’s not a loving and mature choice on her part.

You said the bolded perfectly. I am NOT against adoption AT ALL. My husband was adopted from Korea as a young boy and we’ve even considered adopting a child in the future. Adoption is the most ideal in many situations, including this one. The problem I have in this instance, is that the OP is strongly encouraging adoption without giving his daughter a true opportunity to look at the other option, keeping the baby. Even in his last post, he said that she was “coming around” to the idea of adoption. In my opinion, this is coercion. At this point, she doesn’t need to be “coming around” to either idea but really thinking and looking at what each will offer her. In fact, she shouldn’t settle on anything final until that baby is born.

Based on the hammering of the OP, I could see the daughter putting up the baby to please her dad and then when she is an adult, there will be a lot of resentment and pain to go around. The dad doesn’t seem to care about her feelings though. He made that clear in an earlier post.

 

[Xantippe]

You don’t appear to know much about the adoption process or about Catholic Charities! The daughter will have her own counselor and will explore all options. If she decides to keep the baby, they will provide help and support. If she decides, after prayerful discernment, to give the baby up for adoption, **it will be her decision only **. SHE is the one that will sign the papers and own the decision. If she’s unwilling to do that, or even if it is suspected that she is unwilling, they won’t accept it. It she should change her mind after giving birth, she is free to do so. Papers aren’t signed until after the birth anyway. If she is conflicted, the baby will be placed in a receiving home until she makes her decision. No one is allowed to force her to do anything. That’s why I like Catholic Charities over private adoption, where there can perhaps be pressure applied. IMHO of course, after saying this, my only private adoption experience was one in which the birth mother changed her mind after giving birth- so possibly all adoption options always default to the birth mother. I would hope so.

It’s great to hear that about Catholic Charities.

I’m not sure how realistic it is, though, to say that “No one is allowed to force her to do anything” given that the counselor isn’t going to be home with her 24/7 making sure that her parents aren’t twisting her arm.

 

[Rau]

…My wife and I are just not in the financial position to take care of another child in addition to the 5 we have with 1 in college which is very expensive. And frankly we refuse to clean up and take responsibility for her indiscretions.

I asked this earlier, but perhaps you missed it. If your wife became pregnant, would you be proposing adopting out the child? What attitude would you take?

 

[johnphilip1972]

I asked this earlier, but perhaps you missed it. If your wife became pregnant, would you be proposing adopting out the child? What attitude would you take?

I’d be shocked, then I’d retire and live off of the money the National Enquirer paid for our story.

 

[Rau]

I asked this earlier, but perhaps you missed it. If your wife became pregnant, would you be proposing adopting out the child? What attitude would you take?

By responding as you did, I kind of infer you would not propose adoption, and conclude that the financial stresses you referred to are really not relevant.

The odds of positive outcomes for your daughter and grandchild may favour adoption. But I find your zeal for that course, at this early stage, disconcerting.

 

[Nan_S]

I’d be shocked, then I’d retire and live off of the money the National Enquirer paid for our story.

Your situation and your daughter’s situation are totally different. It wasn’t a fair question.

Money aside, you and your wife have a committed godly relationship working together to raise your children. You finished school, secured employment, found a home, obtained insurance, and did all the other things responsible mature adults are supposed to do to prepare for having children. Your daughter and “Romeo” have done none of these.

All the support that parents can give a daughter does not compare to the support God intended her to get from a responsible husband. Unless you adopt your grandbaby yourself, there will likely be constant friction between you and your immature teen daughter about how this child is to be cared for, about who has the right and responsibility to make decisions regarding the raising and instruction of this child.

At age 15 I’m estimating she just finished 9th grade. That would put her and the baby in your home for at least three more years, whereupon (assuming she says in school and on schedule) she will graduate with enough education to get any job which pays minimum wage and where the most repeated question is, “Do you want fries with that?” If she wants anything better for her baby she’s going to need some technical training, perhaps an associate’s degree, which could have her living in your home with the baby until it is nearly old enough to start school.

And all the while you’ll be dealing with the conflict, “Whose baby is this anyway?” No, what Rau asked was not a fair question. The circumstances do not compare.

15 is just too young. You are not a royal family living in medieval Europe. Open adoption is a much better option for everyone.

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

I’m not going to offer an opinion either/or on whether the OP should keep encouraging his daughter to go through with the adoption.

However, I have two questions to ask:

1. Has the OP ever considered the idea that the father of the baby may change his mind with the passing of time and once he sees the baby? Just because he wanted abortion originally does not mean he might not change his mind once the sight of his baby and time passes. It also seems to me he has already solidified his opinion about the father without giving a chance to grow up and take responsibility.

He ALSO needs a talk and a chance to share in the decision process just like the OP’S daughter.

He might also surprise everybody as well as the fact that your daughter may surprise everybody.

1. The OP said that a 15 year cannot be a mother. Many stories that have already been shown here belie that statement. The OP is being too general in that statement.

Just saying. And just wondering.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

I’m not going to offer an opinion either/or on whether the OP should keep encouraging his daughter to go through with the adoption.

However, I have two questions to ask:

1. Has the OP ever considered the idea that the father of the baby may change his mind with the passing of time and once he sees the baby? Just because he wanted abortion originally does not mean he might not change his mind once the sight of his baby and time passes. It also seems to me he has already solidified his opinion about the father without giving a chance to grow up and take responsibility.

He ALSO needs a talk and a chance to share in the decision process just like the OP’S daughter.

He might also surprise everybody as well as the fact that your daughter may surprise everybody.

1. The OP said that a 15 year cannot be a mother. Many stories that have already been shown here belie that statement. The OP is being too general in that statement.

Just saying. And just wondering.

The OP hasn’t considered anything but adoption…that is the decision he alone has made, the baby is being adopted, end of story.

On another note (not related to your specific post) I’m getting a bit tired of people bringing abortion into this…as far as I am aware only the father of the baby has mentioned it and probably out of shock, in time, he may very well surprise everyone as you say. Nobody here is advocating abortion…adoption or keeping the baby are the two options. Nobody here are saying adoption is wrong…on the contrary, if after thinking through all options, situations, aspects, THE DAUGHTER decides she wants to adopt the baby…that’s fantastic. My problem is the daughter apparently doesn’t have a choice, the decision has been made…she is adopting the baby even though she has expressed an interest to keep the baby. There is also no point in keep going over the fact a mother is supposed to have done x, y and z before having a baby - yes in an ideal situation (and when is getting pregnant ever truly ideal?) she would have got married, finished education, got a job etc etc…but she is not in that situation…she is PREGNANT NOW! Some people only seem to be hearing what they want to hear, yes there are horror stories of teen mums who couldn’t look after themselves let alone the baby, but there are also stories where teen mums have done amazingly well and given the baby a great little life. Yes there are happy ever after adoption stories but that is not always the case. There are good and bad stories.

The only point here…adoption or not…is that it should be the daughters decision!

 

[fpt]

The moral conditions of the moral validity of the adoption:

Generally speaking, *the adoption is the exception, what means that she has to be and to stay the exception. *The reversal of this rule is morally wrong. **That is, only, the ultimate solution. **Before all that, the other solutions have to be searched (an obligation of means) in the good faith. Thus, her parents have to propose her all solutions, and the first is to keep the baby with her;

The young mother of 15 years has, alone, the competencies for taking the final decision about the adoption. ***Her free will, her free discerning and her own volition have to be protected and respected by her family, by the religious communities and the civil communities. ***The pressures coming from her parents, coming from the father, coming from the other persons should not exist. Only, good advice are morally good, without an “almost brain washing”. The moral pressures, the mental pressures, the religious pressures, the parental pressures and the civil pressures are morally wrong.

The adoption may be, but after looking at and after analyzing the first solution: keep the baby with her.

 

[bitterhope]

It is not unusual at all for someone to consider abortion right away and later regret thinking that–ever. Many moms who are extraordinarily pro life and would never think of abortion have hoped to miscarry initially. It’s not at all unusual. And anybody who honestly believes that adoption is easier for a mom than abortion is not being honest with themselves or anyone else. Maybe it is more loving and yes it is a moral option, but that does not make it easier for a mom.

Look, Catholic Charities tried to convince my sister to give up her baby. It wasn’t my parents pressuring her, it was the counselor at Catholic Charities. If these parents are already pressuring her and then the counselor does as well, how is that helping the girl at all? Many moms are coerced into abortions. Many moms are coerced into adoptions. How is that better? I was talking with my husband about my sister when she was expecting her oldest. I asked him if one of ours was in the same situations what he would do. We both agree that if our daughter was expecting and unmarried, that is when she would need the most support emotionally so why would we not help her or our grand baby? Being an immigrant my husband is convinced that many problems in the US stem from not having the family support during difficult times. Too many parents practice “tough love” and send children out before they are ready. When times are hard that is when they need us the most.

Many people support families without tech school or college. My husband is working on his
college now, but we are raising 8, soon to be 10, on his income alone, and he got his high school in a different country. According to this country it doesn’t count so he had to get his GED here. I graduated high school. Eventually, after marriage and three kids, I went to tech school for 9 weeks for a certificate. But I haven’t worked in years. I raise my kids. I was married when I had them, but I too was a teen mom (I married at 18, had my first at 19). No, we didn’t get married because I was pregnant. I was pregnant soon afterwards though. History is full of teen moms, a good deal of them were excellent mothers. Mary was about the same age as the daughter in question. The Church allows girls younger than this daughter to marry.

Yes, St. Joseph adopted Jesus but Mary did not. Mary kept her baby. Joseph stepped up and raised him. Many good step fathers have done the same thing as Joseph. It’s not terrible to think that even if this baby’s father won’t take responsibility that a good and decent man will come into their lives and be like Joseph was for Mary.

I have never met anyone that was adopted that didn’t at some point in their life ask about their biological parents. I’ve never met anyone that didn’t wonder why they were given up or why their parents didn’t keep them. If they had good adoptive parents it is easier and they work through it, but that is not always the case. There are just as many adoptive parents that should have never had children as there are biological parents, just as many married older parents as there are unmarried teen parents. Some people are just not good parents no matter what their circumstances. Married pediatricians that adopt kids have been known to kill their children so I don’t know why anyone would think it’s guaranteed a better outcome simply because the couple is married, educated, well off financially, etc. All adoptions start off with a loss of one kind or another. Not all adoptive parents are capable of dealing with that and many don’t even acknowledge that. Even newborn babies know the sound of their mother’s voice and turn their head towards her as she speaks. Many babies search for that voice and will never see the face attached to it. Yes, that is a loss. Not just the mother suffers the grief of loss, the baby does too. Add coercion (or strong suggestions) into the situation and the loss is compounded and resentment grows. Adoption can be a good option but only in some circumstances. Most of the time is far from ideal.

 

[SpidersfromMars]

The problem is that the initial post was that the daughter DID NOT wish to adopt her baby and her father (the OP) was very negative about her keeping the baby.

In this situation, is the daughter really “choosing” adoption or is she being coerced into it? Given how strong the OP’s initial position was, I think he should make it clear to his daughter that she does have the option of keeping her baby, but that there would have to be significant adjustments in her lifestyle to accommodate the baby.

Again, if the daughter is not choosing adoption, it’s not a loving and mature choice on her part.

So you’re saying she’s selfish if she wants to keep her own baby?

 

[fpt]

In catholicism, the parents, the grandparents and even the great grand parents have to be in favor of the unity of the biological family. Each one has to try. The fact of wanting to keep the baby in the natural family is not, per se, an act of selfishness. Would it be selfish for your daughter of deciding to keep her baby? No, of course, It is not selfish for your daughter of wanting to keep her baby with her,* it is natural.* Could you try to find an internal solution in family, if that is possible: great grand-parents, grand parents, parents, friends, catholic charity centers…etc???

I hope the best for all your family, and for your daughter and her baby. Pray, pray, pray.

 

[PrincessRenae]

So you’re saying she’s selfish if she wants to keep her own baby?

I would say yes. How is adoption not the best option here? Keeping it would be a selfish desire because it wouldn’t be the stable family that the child deserves. Yeah, I guess the father could change his mind, but how many teenage fathers commit to raising their babies in cooperation with the mother? Statistically speaking, the outcomes would be way better for all involved if the child was adopted.

 

[fpt]

So you’re saying she’s selfish if she wants to keep her own baby?

Good point. I am very surprised by this sentence coming from Xantippe. I am confused and even a little scandalized!!!

Spiders from Mars , you are right of being confused. Me, I am… no word.

 

[fpt]

I would say yes. How is adoption not the best option here? Keeping it would be a selfish desire because it wouldn’t be the stable family that the child deserves. Yeah, I guess the father could change his mind, but how many teenage fathers commit to raising their babies in cooperation with the mother? Statistically speaking, the outcomes would be way better for all involved if the child was adopted.

Stop, stop stop with the statistics. We are humans, not statistics. She has the natural right to keep the baby with her, and it is not selfish. The fact of saying the contrary is very… no word.

Now, I confirm my message presenting the catholic answer of some “weird catholic” versus the puritan answers. My feelings were right. This acception of the notion of the selfishness is not very catholic, in my humble opinion. These intellectual approaches are puritan.

Be careful, be prudent, be moderated, be balanced, be natural, be supernatural, be charitable, not be full of ism words. Ask the catholic priests.

 

[fpt]

I would say yes. How is adoption not the best option here? Keeping it would be a selfish desire because it wouldn’t be the stable family that the child deserves. Yeah, I guess the father could change his mind, but how many teenage fathers commit to raising their babies in cooperation with the mother? Statistically speaking, the outcomes would be way better for all involved if the child was adopted.

Must she to confess the sin of selfishness if she decide to keep her baby with her, in saying no for adoption? No, of course.

If you think, yes, it is a joke!!! I hope so, otherwise!!!

 

[fpt]

As parents, we have to protect our children and our grandchildren… and we have to keep the unity of the family…etc, in function of our means, in my humble opinion: it is a moral obligation of means coming from the natural marriage, or coming from the natural biological filiation.