Pastor buys AR-15 at raffle so he could destroy it

[Expatreprocedit]

It appears you are trying to draw a moral equivalence between the ownership of a rifle and homosexual acts. If not, then your point above makes no sense. If so, then you really have a flawed understanding of weapons.

Once again, the subject here is ownership of an AR-15, not “a rifle”. And no I wouldn’t draw an exact moral equivalence, but I imagine they have roughly the same response to anyone criticizing their lifestyle as you have “You are not from our community, you have no right to criticize us” etc.

Opposed to a “regular” (whatever that means), it isn’t any more (or less) essential. It is equivalent. But that misses the point entirely. You didn’t answer the first question in the previous post:

What about the AR-15 makes it more absurd than a .3006? Or a M911? Or a .22?

What makes a .3006 “regular”?

I’m talking about firearms that are capable of firing a lot of rounds very quickly, the kind favored by soldiers (which I have no problem with if they are fighting for a worthy cause) and disgruntled disturbed people interested in killing a lot of innocent people. That is what sets an AR-15 and similar weapons apart.

 

[a_priori]

He won it. Destroy it. Make a planter out of it. Make a cliched political point. Whatever. Expensive piece of political theater.

 

[Usige]

I’m talking about firearms that are capable of firing a lot of rounds very quickly, the kind favored by soldiers (which I have no problem with if they are fighting for a worthy cause) and disgruntled disturbed people interested in killing a lot of innocent people. That is what sets an AR-15 and similar weapons apart.

Except it can’t fire a bunch of rounds very quickly. At least no faster than any other semiautomatic rifle or handgun. I just built my last one a few weeks ago and I can guarantee you that it is not mechanically possible to make it a military weapon without multiple thousands of dollars. In most cases you would end up with a nonfunctional gun even if you tried. Cheaper to just get a license from the ATF for full automatic.

From a speed standpoint I can actually empty and reload my hand gun quicker than my AR15. The rounds are also about 65% the cost of .223 ammo. My shotgun is almost as quick (and causes more damage at short distances). Even my liberal, antigun sister had to admit that the handgun and shotgun were more deadly within 25 - 50 feet after spending time with me at the range.

 

[Brendan]

Except it can’t fire a bunch of rounds very quickly. At least no faster than any other semiautomatic rifle or handgun. .

Exactly, if they were concerned about firing round quickly, then your standard turkey hunting shotgun would the one of most concern

With every pull of the trigger, an AR fires ONE .223 caliber bullet. With every pull of the trigger, a 12g shotgun fires TEN .30 caliber bullets.

Unloading a full magazine in an AR fires 30 of these .223 caliber bullets. Unloading a magazine in a shotgun fires 50 .30 caliber bullets.

 

[Usige]

Exactly, if they were concerned about firing round quickly, then your standard turkey hunting shotgun would the one of most concern

With every pull of the trigger, an AR fires ONE .223 caliber bullet. With every pull of the trigger, a 12g shotgun fires TEN .30 caliber bullets.

Unloading a full magazine in an AR fires 30 of these .223 caliber bullets. Unloading a magazine in a shotgun fires 50 .30 caliber bullets.

Yep. My sister said she was astonished how much damage a 12 gauge with 00 buckshot did. She also said it was much easier to aim the shotgun and know you took out a target (hole the size of a saucer compared to a hole the size of a pencil eraser). The greatest benefit of a rifle is the accuracy at distance. Something rarely of concern in mass shootings.

What most people don’t realize is that in the majority of mass shootings where AR15s or other rifles are present are rarely done with only the rifle. Many, if not most, also include multiple handguns and several included shotguns. I have never seen specifics on what caliber bullet killed each person, but I suspect many were killed with a handgun or shotgun. People just assume that it was the evil black gun that killed them all even if that is not the case.

 

[Ojo_Feliz]

Never heard of such a thing myself.

Really? This sort of thing goes on all the time. For example:

Missouri church offers AR-15 rifle raffle to entice younger male crowd
washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jun/23/missouri-church-offers-ar-15-rifle-raffle-to-entic/

Gunning for God: Troy, N.Y. pastor to hold church raffle for AR-15-type rifle
nydailynews.com/news/national/gunning-god-ny-pastor-hold-raffle-assault-rifle-article-1.1713029

Afton church auctioning AR-15 to raise money for school supplies
tulsaworld.com/news/state/afton-church-auctioning-ar–to-raise-money-for-school/article_819fd030-eefa-52ba-8b6a-6eec16822bd4.html

 

[minion]

This is an AR-15. It is absurd for anywhere.

And some people do “know better than other folk”.

Absolutely absurd. Civilians should have access to M16’s instead.

 

[ARSpade]

The pastor is now being investigated by police for illegally transferring the rifle to a friend without having a dealer perform a background check. Oregon, as many gun control advocates want, has a universal background check law.

washingtonpost.com/national/religion/pastor-who-won-ar-15-raffle-may-have-violated-oregon-law/2016/08/02/014eb924-58e7-11e6-8b48-0cb344221131_story.html

He said he did it for safekeeping purposes, but the law makes no allowances for such a thing.

Last year, state lawmakers passed a new law that made transferring a gun without a background check illegal, even if the arrangement is between two private parties and no money changes hands. If Lucas were to be convicted of a misdemeanor charge of unlawful transfer of a weapon, he could face a maximum fine of $6,250 and up to a year in jail.

 

[ucfengr]

The pastor is now being investigated by police for illegally transferring the rifle to a friend without having a dealer perform a background check. Oregon, as many gun control advocates want, has a universal background check law.

washingtonpost.com/national/religion/pastor-who-won-ar-15-raffle-may-have-violated-oregon-law/2016/08/02/014eb924-58e7-11e6-8b48-0cb344221131_story.html

He said he did it for safekeeping purposes, but the law makes no allowances for such a thing.

I hope he goes to jail. He needs to experience the full effect of the laws he supports.

 

[J_Peterson]

The pastor is now being investigated by police for illegally transferring the rifle to a friend without having a dealer perform a background check. Oregon, as many gun control advocates want, has a universal background check law.

washingtonpost.com/national/religion/pastor-who-won-ar-15-raffle-may-have-violated-oregon-law/2016/08/02/014eb924-58e7-11e6-8b48-0cb344221131_story.html

He said he did it for safekeeping purposes, but the law makes no allowances for such a thing.

Sounds like he made a mistake. He probably should have checked with a lawyer first.

I guarantee he won’t have to pay a penny in fines. There’d be plenty of people willing to bail him out. I’d be willing to toss some cash his way if it comes to that.

 

[J_Peterson]

I hope he goes to jail. He needs to experience the full effect of the laws he supports.

Why do you hope he goes to jail? What would you get out of it?

 

[ucfengr]

Why do you hope he goes to jail? What would you get out of it?

He broke the law, a law he supports. I think it’s appropriate for people to fully experience the laws they support. Why do you think he should get a pass? I’m of the H. L. Mencken school of Democracy.

“Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.” … and deserve to get it good and hard."

The pastor should get what he wanted, good and hard.

 

[John_Lazarus]

Or how about the myriad of sausage shoots in our area to raise funds for gun clubs and youth trap and skeet teams?

You shoot sausages?

 

[ucfengr]

You shoot sausages?

I hope they don’t shoot bacon. That would be barbaric.

 

[ARSpade]

Sounds like he made a mistake. He probably should have checked with a lawyer first.

I guarantee he won’t have to pay a penny in fines. There’d be plenty of people willing to bail him out. I’d be willing to toss some cash his way if it comes to that.

Lots of people make mistakes and go to jail. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. No need for a lawyer, the UBC law was all over the news out there. It’s pretty simple: giving a gun to somebody requires a background check.

And he and others would be screaming for jail if it was a run of the mill gun owner who broke the law. Goose, gander, etc.

 

[Lost_Sheep]

Actually, now some are trying to get him prosecuted because he used church funds, or something.

He is being prosecuted under a state law that has to do with the transfer of firearms. The pastor gave the rifle to another person for “safe keeping” until such time as he would be able to destroy it. But Oregon state law - a law the pastor and his anti-gun friends lobbied for - says you cannot simply do that. You must legally transfer the ownership to the other person.

Nothing to see here folks; Karma is just doing it’s job.

 

[J_Peterson]

He broke the law, a law he supports. I think it’s appropriate for people to fully experience the laws they support. Why do you think he should get a pass? I’m of the H. L. Mencken school of Democracy.

The pastor should get what he wanted, good and hard.

Sounds a bit like vengeance to me.

I didn’t say he should get a pass. In fact I said he made a mistake and should have checked with a lawyer. Does the H.L. Mencken school of Democracy not understand the difference between the letter and the spirit of the law? I really don’t think this warrants jail time considering the plan was to destroy the gun. I’m betting he’ll get a fine, if the prosecution is willing to go forward. That, in my opinion, would do more good for the gun control side though so they may just let it go.

 

[ARSpade]

Sounds a bit like vengeance to me.

I didn’t say he should get a pass. In fact I said he made a mistake and should have checked with a lawyer. Does the H.L. Mencken school of Democracy not understand the difference between the letter and the spirit of the law? I really don’t think this warrants jail time considering the plan was to destroy the gun. I’m betting he’ll get a fine, if the prosecution is willing to go forward. That, in my opinion, would do more good for the gun control side though so they may just let it go.

The “spirit of the law” usually seems to mean “people the government or majority likes go free, the ones they don’t like do time”. It’s nonsense. Especially since, as a gun control guy, this guy was probably for the very law he broke.

 

[Ridgerunner]

He could have sold the gun and given the money to the poor. It isn’t as if he somehow reduced gun deaths by doing this. It’s just grandstanding.

 

[Usige]

Sounds like he made a mistake. He probably should have checked with a lawyer first.

I guarantee he won’t have to pay a penny in fines. There’d be plenty of people willing to bail him out. I’d be willing to toss some cash his way if it comes to that.

Hmm… I was pulled over for doing 37 in a 25 a few years back. The speed limit dropped from 35 to 25 and I didn’t see the sign. Neither the officer nor judge cared that it was an accident and not willfully breaking the law. As the judge said, “the law is the law”.

I’m sure you’re right that he won’t pay a dime. If nothing else he could just use money from the church discretionary funds. He obviously had no problem doing it before.