Pastor buys AR-15 at raffle so he could destroy it

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otjm said:
No one is proposing giving more guns to gang members for self protection. And the great majority of murders by guns occurs within gangs and between gangs, and those caught in the cross fires when the gangs start shooting.
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Where do you think gang members get guns?
 
ShrodingersCat said:
The problem is that your right to defend your family by owning a gun translates to your neighbours ability to shoot his wife and kid in a drunken rage. Far more wives and children have been killed by their husband’s guns than saved by them, in recent times at least. The right to defend your family exists, but not “however you see fit”.
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How would you defend yourself? How about a woman alone in a dark parking garage? How about the elderly? How do they defend themselves?
 
ShrodingersCat said:
Actually I don’t think anyone has a problem with a farmer owning a gun.
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So I technically have property that is zoned agricultural despite living on the edge of a town of 60,000 so it shouldn’t impact me, but Alex said he thinks the police should confiscate guns from anyone found in possession of a gun. Many people I know that hunt also don’t live on farms.

As to the argument that they should be stored in some place like a gun range? Want to guess how many illegal guns are stolen from gun stores and gun ranges? I know my local gun range has had atleast 3 break ins or attempted break ins the last year. Concentrate more guns and it becomes a greater target for criminals.
 
Usige said:
Such as? Tell me and other gun owners how you won’t make us pay to have our property seized.
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How about we use all of the money we spend to incarcerate young black men on small drug charges and apply it to fund the gun buyback?
Usige said:
Also explain how you will feed those that rely on guns to hunt and feed their families as well as those who use guns to protect their livestock and will now have loses to preditor kill.
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https://www.walmartbrandcenter.com/...pecifications/specifications-logo3.jpg?n=2187
 
Alex_H said:
I’m not sure what you mean here.
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One individual with a rifle attempted to execute 12 police officers. He succeeded in about half the ones he shot. You must live in la la land if you think the police are going to go in and take guns away from gangs. That, and you have absolutely no clue about the 4th Amendment, aside from the practical side of your suggestion.
Alex_H said:
They can’t. If you have legally purchased a gun and a officer sees it, under the current laws, they cannot seize it.
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You also know nothing of gun laws on the books. Carrying a concealed weapon without a permit is grounds for seizure and is used regularly. The problem is, the police are already being charged for stopping young black men under the areas of “Walking while Black” or “Driving while Black”. and just how do you propose that the police find these concealed weapons, other than searches simply based on race?
Alex_H said:
No, I’m more interested in preventing such things as the Sandy Hook school shootings where 20 elementary students were gunned down. I’m not really ideologically against guns, my heart just breaks when I hear of all these people being gunned down and then people acting like there’s nothing we can do to prevent it.
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Then you need to deal with the ACLU, which has vigorously fought for the rights of insane people; it is next best impossible to deal with people like that shooter. And taking away guns from literally millions of people in order to try to take it away from the criminally insane is…

Wait for this…

Insane.

No one wants a Sandy Hook. In China, one guy went into a school and killed kids. With a knife. The problem of Sandy Hook, and Colorado is not guns; it is our inability to deal with people on the irrational edge of society.

and then there was Oklahoma; so now because of Sandy Hook, Oklahoma, and your rationale, we should ban oil and fertilizer.

Okay, problem solved. Not.
 
Remember, the same people arguing against voter ID laws are citing and as a constitutionally protected right are making the case for further restrictions/outright bans on gun ownership, also constitutionally protected.

I don’t see anyone in favor of voter IDs opposing ID verification for gun purchases.

Can anyone explain that?
 
Alex_H said:
How about we use all of the money we spend to incarcerate young black men on small drug charges and apply it to fund the gun buyback?
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So don’t enforce the law so that we can punish people that obey the law? Wow, that sounds like.a great way to ensure a more civil society.
https://www.walmartbrandcenter.com/...pecifications/specifications-logo3.jpg?n=2187
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I know pepole who live for 4 months off perhaps 2 or 3 elk. Cost about 4 dollars in ammo. You really think Walmart can feed them and their familes for 4 months on less than 5 dollars?
 
Maximilan_Kolbe said:
Remember, the same people arguing against voter ID laws are citing and as a constitutionally protected right are making the case for further restrictions/outright bans on gun ownership, also constitutionally protected.

I don’t see anyone in favor of voter IDs opposing ID verification for gun purchases.

Can anyone explain that?
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Sure. The liberals are inconsistent; but then, emotional responses tend to be the source of that.
 
otjm said:
One individual with a rifle attempted to execute 12 police officers. He succeeded in about half the ones he shot. You must live in la la land if you think the police are going to go in and take guns away from gangs. That, and you have absolutely no clue about the 4th Amendment, aside from the practical side of your suggestion.

You also know nothing of gun laws on the books. Carrying a concealed weapon without a permit is grounds for seizure and is used regularly. The problem is, the police are already being charged for stopping young black men under the areas of “Walking while Black” or “Driving while Black”. and just how do you propose that the police find these concealed weapons, other than searches simply based on race?

Then you need to deal with the ACLU, which has vigorously fought for the rights of insane people; it is next best impossible to deal with people like that shooter. And taking away guns from literally millions of people in order to try to take it away from the criminally insane is…

Wait for this…

Insane.

No one wants a Sandy Hook. In China, one guy went into a school and killed kids. With a knife. The problem of Sandy Hook, and Colorado is not guns; it is our inability to deal with people on the irrational edge of society.

and then there was Oklahoma; so now because of Sandy Hook, Oklahoma, and your rationale, we should ban oil and fertilizer.

Okay, problem solved. Not.
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So, what is your solution for stopping mass shootings?
 
Alex_H said:
So, what is your solution for stopping mass shootings?
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First of all, stop these ridiculous “gun free zones” These tell the criminal where they can do the most damage with the least resistance
 
Michael68 said:
First of all, stop these ridiculous “gun free zones” These tell the criminal where they can do the most damage with the least resistance
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I was reading about a bill that passed the Tennessee state legislature that opened up state parks to people carrying guns. One senator, tried to amend the bill to include the capitol building in that, meaning that the capitol would no longer be gun free. That amendment was quickly voted down by all of the pro-second amendment senators.

Wouldn’t you agree that this is hypocritical?
 
lmachine said:
We should stop general sales of guns to the public. Farmers who wish to protect their livestock can register to own guns like in many other countries. People like you who want to go target shooting can use guns stored at gun ranges to do so. Those “young black criminals” you are so concerned about are getting their guns from smugglers who obtain guns in states with relaxed restrictions and transport them along the various Iron Pipelines. Cutting off the supply of guns would raise illegal gun prices and reduce gun violence in areas with gang problems.
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Criminals don’t buy guns at gun stores. How are you going to get the guns out of the hands of the very small number of people that are actually committing the vast majority of the murders? Saying “the local police will do it” only shows that you really haven’t given any consideration to the actual problem. Again, all you’re doing is engaging in moral preening, you’re not a serious person.
 
ucfengr said:
Criminals don’t buy guns at gun stores.
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Many do, and resell them in states with stricter laws. I mentioned the Iron Pipeline.
How are you going to get the guns out of the hands of the very small number of people that are actually committing the vast majority of the murders? Saying “the local police will do it” only shows that you really haven’t given any consideration to the actual problem.
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The first step is to cut off the supply of guns by halting sales. I’m not sure about the best way to collect the guns already in circulation, I’ve given it a lot of consideration and have not come to any conclusions. I have certainly said nothing about “the local police will do it”.
Again, all you’re doing is engaging in moral preening, you’re not a serious person.
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I am a very serious person. Accusing me of moral preening is neither accurate or contributing to the discussion.
 
lmachine said:
Many do, and resell them in states with stricter laws. I mentioned the Iron Pipeline.

The first step is to cut off the supply of guns by halting sales. I’m not sure about the best way to collect the guns already in circulation, I’ve given it a lot of consideration and have not come to any conclusions. I have certainly said nothing about “the local police will do it”.

I am a very serious person. Accusing me of moral preening is neither accurate or contributing to the discussion.
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What’s your plan to deal with an even deadlier tool: One designed solely for the purpose of propelling a human faster than nature ever intended, and responsible for over 32,000 deaths in 2014 - nearly 3 times as many as those killed by guns?
 
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