Pat Robertson challenges creationism, cities dinosaurs

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Anyways, goodnight. I might not return to this conversation tomorrow, so goodbye.

God bless you!
 
waanju said:
Well, the same way we trust the Church when it teaches whether OTHER parts of the Bible are literal or metaphorical.
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What I really think they are saying is that it is allowable because so many people believe in evolution. Which still proves my point in saying that it’s wrong and theologically unsound.
 
oldcelt said:
I think it is more important for you to explain your rejection of Papal teaching authority for the Catholic faithful. The musings of one Catholic apologist hardly trump the teachings of several Popes.

John
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One, Theistic Evolution is not Official Doctrine and if it really is Official Doctrine then it contradicts the Traditional Official Doctrine thus making the Church the False Church of God. As God is the Truth and his Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth.

Two, it’s theologically unsound and discredits the entire bible. Yes I said the entire Bible. What basis do you have to believe any of it is of God, especially if the first chapter is false? It loses it’s entire credibility. The real Question, why are the Popes saying this is acceptable? Why is God allowing this to be acceptable in his Church? (I have two explanations for this. One the Popes caved in from the pressure and eventually they will revert back to the literal creation. Two God has allowed it because of the hardening of peoples hearts and minds.)

Three, it is out of my Love for God that I accept his Word as it is and as it has been in the Church throughout all history. The Truth is unchanging. No amount of Science is going to disprove creation because it is the Truth. Science and Religion do not conflict with each other unless your a naturalist. As G.K. Chesterton once put it, Evolution always has everything except the missing link. Which they will never have because it’s false. Science also proves a young earth and that debunks evolution completely.
 
Can you please explain to me exactly what your talking about when you say the Church says nothing of the kind.
 
So the Catholic Church is not teaching that it is ok to believe in evolution?
 
I should of phrased that statement better and I apologize. What I meant when I said that Catholic Church is saying to believe what you want I was talking about Origins and Genesis. Especially concerning creation which is utterly important.
 
I have to respectfully disagree with you about me creating a false dilemma as I can substantiate what I am saying. I’m sorry this thread as moved into a banned area. I apologize.
 
Azygos said:
Well then you can’t believe anything from the Bible because after all it’s Men who interpret it. So your logic is inconsistent and my question still stands.
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So what you’re saying is, we shouldn’t trust the Magesterial interpretation either, because they, too, are human
Azygos said:
The Bible is the most historically accurate account of our origins. Are you going to believe God or are you going to believe Man? If your argument is that the Bible was written by Men then you are essentially saying that the Bible doesn’t have the Authority of God. If it was only written by Men then why should you believe any of it in the first place? What Authority does man have without God? Why believe Jesus is God? Why believe he rose from on the third day? Why believe any of it?

As it stands though, All scripture is inspired by God. Including the Book of genesis and your actually arguing with the Word of God. So as I say again either God is a liar or the Bible is wrong, which is it?
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  1. The Bible is an accurate SPIRITUAL account, not an accurate historical one. If it was completely historically accurate, why are there contradictions between the Gospels?
  2. I forget the name of the fallacy, but you’re presenting us with only two negative options with no sign of a third
Azygos said:
Makes perfect sense to me. I don’t know how that can be misinterpreted that or how that can be believe that to be evolution. Must just be my interpretation… If it is not that then you only have two choices. Either God is a liar or the Bible is wrong.
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You keep saying that
Azygos said:
Please read this.

kolbecenter.org/a-summary-of-theistic-evolution/

When your done reading this I would love to see you explain how this doesn’t create a theological problem…
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Hmm… No nihil obstat or imprintatur

Also, the Church DOES still teach creationism. The word just means God created everything. What it doesn’t teach is Young-Earth
 
Razanir said:
So what you’re saying is, we shouldn’t trust the Magesterial interpretation either, because they, too, are human
  1. The Bible is an accurate SPIRITUAL account, not an accurate historical one. If it was completely historically accurate, why are there contradictions between the Gospels?
  2. I forget the name of the fallacy, but you’re presenting us with only two negative options with no sign of a third
You keep saying that

Hmm… No nihil obstat or imprintatur

Also, the Church DOES still teach creationism. The word just means God created everything. What it doesn’t teach is Young-Earth
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I agree. The Bible says who not how. The Bible also employs a lot of literary techniques to get its point across. I think it would be prudent to let the Church do the Bible interpretation instead of us reading what we want to see in the Bible.
 
ishii said:
No, I actually know folks who believe the Earth to be flat. I was wondering what you thought about that - since you obviously take the minority view that the Earth was created only thousands of years ago, I was wondering if you also think the Earth is flat. I don’t know why you won’t answer the question. I am not looking to mock you, but rather just want to know where you’re coming from.

Is the world flat?

Ishii
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Indeed, and according to scripture the earth is covered by a great ocean.

Surely this ocean would refer to water as the ocean is composed of water.
 
ringil said:
Indeed, and according to scripture the earth is covered by a great ocean.
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I wanted a yes or no - I think I got a “yes” with the “does a map have 4 corners” comment. I was hoping to cast doubt on the poster’s literalist views by proving that the earth is not flat - retrograde motion of the planets (Mars, e.g.) and some other facts. Probably would have been a waste of time though.
ringil said:
Surely this ocean would refer to water as the ocean is composed of water.
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True - but quit calling me Shirley 😃
 
I do not understand how if Earth is 5000, 10000 or millions of years old how that impacts the Bible or the Christian faith. Bible does not say how old Earth is
 
Azygos said:
One, Theistic Evolution is not Official Doctrine and if it really is Official Doctrine then it contradicts the Traditional Official Doctrine thus making the Church the False Church of God. As God is the Truth and his Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth.

Two, it’s theologically unsound and discredits the entire bible. Yes I said the entire Bible. What basis do you have to believe any of it is of God, especially if the first chapter is false? It loses it’s entire credibility. The real Question, why are the Popes saying this is acceptable? Why is God allowing this to be acceptable in his Church? (I have two explanations for this. One the Popes caved in from the pressure and eventually they will revert back to the literal creation. Two God has allowed it because of the hardening of peoples hearts and minds.)

Three, it is out of my Love for God that I accept his Word as it is and as it has been in the Church throughout all history. The Truth is unchanging. No amount of Science is going to disprove creation because it is the Truth. Science and Religion do not conflict with each other unless your a naturalist. As G.K. Chesterton once put it, Evolution always has everything except the missing link. Which they will never have because it’s false. Science also proves a young earth and that debunks evolution completely.
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So I am guessing you believe the early biblical figures lived 700-800 year/

And that Noah placed two of every animal on Earth into his ark?
 
Maybe we should stop.
I mean, s/he obviously is convinced that if evolution were true. his/her faith would be shaken. The Church teaches that it’s okay to believe in young earth. Also, it might be okay to privately disagree with an encyclical, so long as one does not say so publicly.
The way I see it, continued debate can only shake his/her faith or cause bitterness and anger.It doesn’t really matter what method s/he thinks God used to create the earth. Let’s just leave this alone.
 
My feeling is that some Catholics get their faith renewed through contact with fundamentalist Christianity, and sincerely submit their will in faith to a bible based spirituality. Why? Because there is an energy and certitude about such faith which is very attractive.

The problem then is that the Catholic Church is founded on the Papacy and the magisterium.

How does such a person reconcile that? They are faced with a false dilemma - either the bible is wrong or the Church is wrong.

It may seem more “Christian” to go with the bible: but that places one’s Catholic loyalties under stress. Does that mean the Pope is wrong? Well if you ask your protestant friends they are going to say “Yes,” and if you visit some of the fringe Catholic sites they will also say the Pope is wrong (but for different reasons).

The only way out of this is to focus on the essentials of Christ’s teaching and go from there (which will lead back to the Church).
 
If evolution were true then death would of happened before Adam and Eve. If Death happened before Adam and Eve then it would be impossible for SIN to bring death into the World. So without SIN bringing death into the World we wouldn’t have Original Sin. If evolution were true then Original Sin would not be true and we wouldn’t need a savoir. The whole bible would be a worthless, so much for a spiritual account. If you believe in evolution then you really need to reevaluate your position and consider the alternatives then research them for yourself. I’m done here, I having nothing left to tell you or show you that you don’t already know so if you want to find the Truth then you will have to search for it.
 
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