Paul Ryan Discussion

[TexCatholic4JMJ]

For my part, I cannot accept that Romney and Ryan are perfect, the two of them deigning to “walk among us,” but each to his or her own point of view. She is entitled to hers.

You so exaggerate! NO ONE has said they are perfect. The difference with the two tickets
is SO significant, that it’s a no-brainer for most of us.

I know several people who became pro-life and conservative. (The reasons were varied.) I
know some who became “pro-choice” from a more radical stance. The latter identify still
as progressive. The people in the first group have never wavered since their conversion.
A few prominent progressives (Al Gore,for one) were pro-life and became “pro-choice.”
The point of all this is that most who are conservative or lean that way are among the ones
who don’t back down once they’ve become “pro-life.” Since I’ve been observing this since
I was a teenager (a long time ago), it is just my observations over the years, but I think
there is something to it. I think it is also why some in the progressive (liberal) camp find
it hard to believe the conversions in the conservative camp.

 

[LisaA]

Sorry, Lisa, I’m on De Santo’s side on this one. In my opinion, which is apparently opposite yours, Mormonism IS a cult. As your response seem imply that it’s just another brand of Protestantism (You regard De Santo’s accusation as only a claim), well, fine.

Rich, I’m SHOCKED SHOCKED that you disagree with me! That’s never happened

FWIW you have completely misinterpreted my comments regarding Mormonism. Whether it is a “cult” or not is a matter of opinion. However it is completely IRRELEVANT for choosing a secular leader of the country.

Frankly my significant contact with Mormons through living in SLC and with relatives who converted is that it has some pretty nutty ideas. So what. I care much more about what people DO, how they live their lives, than what their faith says they should believe. Barack Obama says he is a Christian and Jesus Christ is his guide in life. Yet he’s perfectly happy to support infanticide, same sex marriage and as we’ve seen lie without hesitation if it serves him politically. Whatever he says about his faith, I don’t see it lived out. OTOH I see Mitt Romney as a man who is dedicated to service to his fellow man as well as his family and his church. Whatever he believes, whatever underwear is beneath those beautifully tailored suits is no concern to me.

You and others are certainly entitled to your opinions regarding Mormonism. Given the sometimes rabid and frankly ill-informed bigotry against our faith I would hope you and others would not reach the same conclusions about others’ faith traditions. People are as they do.

Lisa

 

[TexCatholic4JMJ]

Rich, I’m SHOCKED SHOCKED that you disagree with me! That’s never happened

FWIW you have completely misinterpreted my comments regarding Mormonism. Whether it is a “cult” or not is a matter of opinion. However it is completely IRRELEVANT for choosing a secular leader of the country.

Frankly my significant contact with Mormons through living in SLC and with relatives who converted is that it has some pretty nutty ideas. So what. I care much more about what people DO, how they live their lives, than what their faith says they should believe. Barack Obama says he is a Christian and Jesus Christ is his guide in life. Yet he’s perfectly happy to support infanticide, same sex marriage and as we’ve seen lie without hesitation if it serves him politically. Whatever he says about his faith, I don’t see it lived out. OTOH I see Mitt Romney as a man who is dedicated to service to his fellow man as well as his family and his church. Whatever he believes, whatever underwear is beneath those beautifully tailored suits is no concern to me.

You and others are certainly entitled to your opinions regarding Mormonism. Given the sometimes rabid and frankly ill-informed bigotry against our faith I would hope you and others would not reach the same conclusions about others’ faith traditions. People are as they do.

Lisa

 

[LisaA]

You so exaggerate! NO ONE has said they are perfect. The difference with the two tickets
is SO significant, that it’s a no-brainer for most of us.

I know several people who became pro-life and conservative. (The reasons were varied.) I
know some who became “pro-choice” from a more radical stance. The latter identify still
as progressive. The people in the first group have never wavered since their conversion.
A few prominent progressives (Al Gore,for one) were pro-life and became “pro-choice.”
The point of all this is that most who are conservative or lean that way are among the ones
who don’t back down once they’ve become “pro-life.” Since I’ve been observing this since
I was a teenager (a long time ago), it is just my observations over the years, but I think
there is something to it. I think it is also why some in the progressive (liberal) camp find
it hard to believe the conversions in the conservative camp.

Thank you for articulating what I have lived as well. Having come from an atheist and pro abortion upbringing, having been a liberal who voted for (God forgive me) Jimmy Carter and who thought Reagan would get us engaged in thermonuclear war, I am 180 degrees different. I look back in horror at my previous beliefs although I understand we are often a product of our upbringing. I would NEVER NEVER NEVER change back to being pro abortion. The thought makes me physically sick. So I can believe that many people have grown up, left childish ways behind and now understand the Truth about life issues. There are many people in politics who have done the same or as George Bush said, When I was young and stupid I was young and stupid.

I don’t believe for one second that Romney will revert back to pro abortion beliefs. I frankly don’t think he ever was particularly pro abortion but like many in that era simply followed the Roe decision because it was the law of the land (this from the mouth of Chief Justice Roberts as well). While I am much more in line with Ryan’s statement on life issues, as you said between these two tickets there is simply no comparison.

As to tonight’s debate, I wonder if the Catholic question will come up…will Biden and Ryan be asked how their public statements regarding life, regarding SS marriage, regarding government support of social programs will be an issue?

There is lots of speculation regarding what will be on the table tonight and how Joe Biden will do. Although he is a far more experienced debater, many have commented that of late he has really been off the reservation. I have to believe that Obama is kicking himself not choosing Hillary Clinton as VP when the opportunity arose.

Lisa

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

You so exaggerate! NO ONE has said they are perfect.

It’s called hyperbole.

The difference with the two tickets is SO significant, that it’s a no-brainer for most of us.

And you reply with your own hyperbole.

 

[qui_est_ce]

As to tonight’s debate, I wonder if the Catholic question will come up…will Biden and Ryan be asked how their public statements regarding life, regarding SS marriage, regarding government support of social programs will be an issue?

Lisa

This will be interesting…

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

This thread is about Paul Ryan. Talk about Romney on his threads, there are quite a few.

Tonight is the VP debate. Let’s talk about Paul.

Is there anything to talk about? He has no real “presence,” “there’s no there there” so posters leftist and rightist have to shift to discussing Romney. IMO.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

This will be interesting…

Not so sure. Those are such hot button items and the race so close that I believe that none of the debaters will say much - if anything - about those topics.

 

[He_Man]

This will be interesting…

I’d ask “Senator Biden, do you adhere to the teachings of your church with regards to reception of the Eucharist, and why not?”

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Rich, I’m SHOCKED SHOCKED that you disagree with me! That’s never happened

I know that I could invite all the folks on the left who post here and who disagree with you to lunch and have plenty left over from a C note. I’d invite you too as counterpoint.

Whatever he believes, whatever underwear is beneath those beautifully tailored suits is no concern to me.

Well, there’s where Romney and I and Tampa Dave come together - we three favor beautifully tailored suits. Maybe Romney isn’t all bad.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

I’d ask “Senator Biden, do you adhere to the teachings of your church with regards to reception of the Eucharist, and why not?”

My opinion, of course, but such a question would seem to be meaningless to the millions of debate watchers who are not Catholics and who would not have a clue about what you meant by that.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Rich, I’m SHOCKED SHOCKED that you disagree with me! That’s never happened

FWIW you have completely misinterpreted my comments regarding Mormonism. Whether it is a “cult” or not is a matter of opinion. However it is completely IRRELEVANT for choosing a secular leader of the country.

Frankly my significant contact with Mormons through living in SLC and with relatives who converted is that it has some pretty nutty ideas. So what. I care much more about what people DO, how they live their lives, than what their faith says they should believe. Barack Obama says he is a Christian and Jesus Christ is his guide in life. Yet he’s perfectly happy to support infanticide, same sex marriage and as we’ve seen lie without hesitation if it serves him politically. Whatever he says about his faith, I don’t see it lived out. OTOH I see Mitt Romney as a man who is dedicated to service to his fellow man as well as his family and his church. Whatever he believes, whatever underwear is beneath those beautifully tailored suits is no concern to me.

You and others are certainly entitled to your opinions regarding Mormonism. Given the sometimes rabid and frankly ill-informed bigotry against our faith I would hope you and others would not reach the same conclusions about others’ faith traditions. People are as they do.

Lisa

 

[qui_est_ce]

Not so sure. Those are such hot button items and the race so close that I believe that none of the debaters will say much - if anything - about those topics.

I have been watching Paul Ryan for a few years now. I’m really looking forward to watching him in the debates tonight. The important thing to remember, as we were so often reminded four years ago, the VP is one heart-beat away from being POTUS. Who would you rather have? Yes, we are told the POTUS surrounds himself with advisers. Now we know what kind of advisers Pres. Obama has.

Could Biden do any worse? YES!

 

[LisaA]

I have been watching Paul Ryan for a few years now. I’m really looking forward to watching him in the debates tonight. The important thing to remember, as we were so often reminded four years ago, the VP is one heart-beat away from being POTUS. Who would you rather have? Yes, we are told the POTUS surrounds himself with advisers. Now we know what kind of advisers Pres. Obama has.

Could Biden do any worse? YES!

Absolutely a real contrast between two completely different approaches to the role of government in our lives. It’s clear that Joe Biden is awash in the air of Washington DC and Washington DC solutions to our every problem. I think Paul Ryan is more of a pragmatist who looks at the numbers and tries to analyze how we come to a solution. Ironically some of the votes against Ryan’s budget were because instead of the “Draconian cuts” that are claimed, his budget reflected the reduction of INCREASES in spending. He’s not conservative enough for say the likes of Rand Paul.

Joe was put in charge of monitoring the stimulus dollars…how’d that work out? In reality I see in Joe Biden more of an old time pol with specific interest groups (unions) to which he panders. This is what we used to see as a matter of course. The old bring home the bacon, what can I get for my state as exemplified by the late Robert Byrd. Certainly Ryan isn’t against working toward getting benefits for Wisconsin but I don’t see him as beholden to a specific interest group.So the Stimulus might stimulate an interesting point/counterpoint between the two men

Again the moderator is a foreign policy specialist so we might see some fireworks over the Benghazi hearing yesterday. I don’t recall either as speaking out on the subject at any length so maybe we will see more detail.

I’ll still be at work but figure I can stream the debate on a variety of sites. Should be interesting.

Lisa

 

[Ridgerunner]

Not so sure. Those are such hot button items and the race so close that I believe that none of the debaters will say much - if anything - about those topics.

I don’t know. We’ll see. I think a lot of people underestimate Biden because of his “gaffes” which I think were fully intended. He’s the court jester for the administration, but that doesn’t mean he’s incapable. Biden is a very clever man, and I don’t doubt he’s good in a verbal knife fight.

I fully expect Ryan to be on top of the facts more than Biden. But I doubt he’s anywhere near as good at slipping a verbal knife between the ribs, as I doubt he’s used to doing it. This debate might be nothing but a back-alley political brawl, in which case Biden will have a distinct advantage. But if it really turns out to be one of weighing policies, I would expect Ryan to have the advantage.

Possibly the public would prefer to see a brawl. I don’t know.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

I don’t know. We’ll see. I think a lot of people underestimate Biden because of his “gaffes” which I think were fully intended. He’s the court jester for the administration, but that doesn’t mean he’s incapable. Biden is a very clever man, and I don’t doubt he’s good in a verbal knife fight.

I fully expect Ryan to be on top of the facts more than Biden. But I doubt he’s anywhere near as good at slipping a verbal knife between the ribs, as I doubt he’s used to doing it. This debate might be nothing but a back-alley political brawl, in which case Biden will have a distinct advantage. But if it really turns out to be one of weighing policies, I would expect Ryan to have the advantage.

Possibly the public would prefer to see a brawl. I don’t know.

Excellent analysis!

I don’t even care about the issues in today’s debate. I’m here for the scrap! :slapfight: :blackeye: :crutches:

 

[_Abyssinia]

Poll Boost for Ryan Ahead of Debate With Biden

Biden’s Debating Style

Over at Slate, Dave Weigel looks at Biden’s debate history. One nugget:

Biden’s job, in his Senate races, was to humiliate Republicans by pointing out how cruel their policies were, and how little they knew. Abortion and women’s safety issues, which he could never deploy against Palin, are the tools he knows best. When Biden meets Ryan tonight, it would be out of character if he didn’t try to mire him in a discussion of pro-life bills and “legitimate rape.” Plenty of pols use soft language when they have to discuss those issues. Biden doesn’t.

I suspect Ryan can handle this. He’ll be able to point out, for one thing, that Obama is sadly much more left-wing on abortion than Biden is.

 

[DeSanto]

I have watched Ryan for a few years now also, and I don’t have nearly as much of an issue with him as I do Romney. I do not like the way the politics have been played out in congress as I believe most the entire country will agree and Ryan has deffinately played his part. Although, if it weren’t for the position he has HAD to take in order to prove his allegiance to his party…I think overall he’s a good guy and has the potential to be a great politician, given the right can come back a little closer to moderate positions.

In any case, I think the only problem he will have tonight, is dodging the questions of his budget cuts (how much they cost and more importantly how to pay for them). This, i believe is the only thing people are concerned about when it comes to ryan. I can only suppose he cannot devulge that information because it would be extremely unpopular.

That’s what ill be watching for.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

ICould Biden do any worse? YES!

 

[_Abyssinia]

Biden: ‘You Ever See Me Rope-a-Dope?’

What does it mean?