'Pearls in need of polishing'-paedophiles

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Crusader13 said:
I believe forgiveness comes from a place of healing and we aren’t at that point yet, because as a Church this disease is still afflicting our entire body.
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When we die, we don’t get to tell God that we continued to bear a grudge against someone because we “weren’t at the point” of forgiving them yet. You forgive them right then or you take the consequences that God might choose to impose on you.

Having said that, I think God understands, as do I, that some people struggle with forgiveness, especially if they’ve been personally affected in some way. However, that doesn’t mean it’s wrong for a priest to repeatedly encourage us to forgive, and some people may actually be able to follow the priest’s guidance now. The whole Church doesn’t have to hold back forgiveness because a subset of its members are still struggling with an issue.

Forgiveness also doesn’t mean we forget all about it and don’t remove and punish the priest.
 
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pnewton said:
We all have something that hits too close to home to treat with equanimity. With pedophiles, I think there are few who can be close and befriend them with the mercy and love of Christ. You have to be a lot like Jesus and have the right experience for that.
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As some of my protestant friends would jokingly say, “that’s not my ministry”.

Like my views towards violent criminals, I’ll forgive them from afar and pray for their conversion without having a personal relationship with them.

I’m more drawn to reach out to the victims and help them with their own trauma, and I’m sure there’s others who will be able to reach out to the worst of society and will help to rehabilitate them.

One ‘obstacle’ I guess is understanding that such crimes against children aren’t always some uncontrollable action as a result of a mental disorder. It’s a premeditated attempt to win the child’s trust, isolate them from family and friends, instil fear in them if they ever tell it to anyone etc.

If I can’t trust someone to not do these things if left alone with a child, I wouldn’t want them to be in my social circle.
TK421 said:
What I’m trying to say is that you’ve probably already met pedophiles at some point in your life and never knew it. When a pedophile is discovered, they are often attacked and beaten in prison, their property vandalized, threats made on their life, etc. Even being glared at can take a heavy toll after the 10th time. It makes it much more difficult to stay clean from a behavior when society uses that person for schadenfreude. Society helps perpetuate the cycle.
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I’m not advocating violence obviously, I just wouldn’t have a relationship with them. I would support initiatives like access to therapy if needed and I would hope they truly repent and change.

My father shares the same sentiment you have, somewhat. A friend of his has shown suspicious behaviour towards me years ago, to the point where both parents believed he would have done something to me (something about how they caught him about to do something). Yet my dad still meets up with him and have drinks with him (because mercy and Jesus), he just forbids contact with me and my sister who’s still a minor. Now THAT is something I always found bizarre and uncomfortable with.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
When we die, we don’t get to tell God that we continued to bear a grudge against someone because we “weren’t at the point” of forgiving them yet. You forgive them right then or you take the consequences that God might choose to impose on you.
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That’s not the point I was making. I was saying as a Church it’s difficult to hear talk about what we need to do as the laity in terms of forgiving and healing, when much of what has taken place is still left unresolved.

As individuals we can find healing and forgiveness, but many victims have done so, in spite of the Church’s response, not because of it.

Some people are waiting for answers and action in regards to the abuse and corruption which took place. We never got that and at this point, it may take a future generation to shed light on what happened.
 
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Crusader13 said:
People are waiting for answers and action in regards to the abuse and corruption which took place. We never got that and at this point, it may take a future generation to shed light on what happened.
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I can see your point. I would just adjust this statement to read “Some people are waiting…”

Some people are willing to accept that the Church (as well as society in general) has taken certain actions, changed a number of procedures, and put safeguards in place. While these steps may need to evolve further depending on future events, not everybody feels like “we never got that”.

I myself think the Church has been making good progress. I respect the fact that others may disagree, but I don’t think I’m alone in my view.
 
I would have more confidence in the Church if it made a very clear announcement that any indication of sexual abuse by a priest, nun or anyone in the Church should be reported directly to the police and not the Church. Let the Church records be open to all police inquiries.

The sexual abuser is horrible as well as the Churches cover-ups.
 
I’m not aware of any recent cases in either of the main dioceses that I follow where the police weren’t immediately involved or the Church failed to cooperate with police investigations. The dioceses were less cooperative a few decades ago. That was then, this is now.

Of course, it’s always possible that some dioceses are not doing what you suggest, in which case they need to change their practices.
 
FiveLinden said:
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Lea101:
Would probably deal with them in a professional setting, and I have before, but i genuinely can’t imagine being friends with someone who has raped/hurt a child (or anyone).
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Would you offer them the sign of peace at Mass?
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I have done precisely that, twice-convicted registered sex offender (layman), minors involved, no rape (Deo gratias). He has, as the saying goes, paid his debt to society, and wears a lifetime virtual “Scarlet P”. I can’t imagine his life is anything to be envied. No sin is unforgivable, and though I can’t discuss particulars, there may be more to the situation, than was able to be brought out in court.

But I wouldn’t let him anywhere near my teenage son for a skinny minute.
 
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About to send this

‘Two weeks ago, during your homily you said something to the effect of ‘people are leaving the Church due to the scandals, but that we need to remember some in our Church are pearls in need of more polishing.’ I am paraphrasing from memory but I believe I have the gist of what you said. Could you elaborate or explain this in more detail?’

I think it is better than being accusatory or just getting angry. Perhaps he has had second thoughts or meant the Church in general. Best done before we cut ties and the kids don’t get first Reconciliation/Communion. ugh.

I added in that he said “we are all sinners” in 2018 (McCarrick).
 
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2018 was two years ago. If these past words continue to weigh on your mind, it might be best for you to talk to your priest.
The issues of paraphrasing his more recent words on the forum and then asking for comment puts your readers in a difficult situation: How to respond to words which have not been shared in their entirety? It would be uncharitable for readers to think poorly of your priest, especially given the fact that he his words have not been accurately presented, as you note in your admission of paraphrasing.
I suggest that you speak directly to him.
May God bless you and your priest.
Amen.
 
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I think we universally agree that sexual abuse is horrible, yes? It is a grave sin committed by sick people that is incredibly harmful to the victims (most importantly) and to the Church. I think what your priest said is accurate in regards to our need for confession and how confession “polishes us”. I think his wording isn’t great and comparing a sexual abuser to anything of beauty like a pearl will definitely upset people. I think the pearl analogy works better for the sinner who strayed a little off path and needs that healing grace of confession to restore themselves. Someone who has sexually abused someone still has that pearl inside them, but you are going to need a lot of polish to get that shine back. I’d reach out to the priest and ask if he could expand on his statement. Explain your point of view and listen to his. I don’t like his wording, but maybe he used it for a specific reason.
 
Only paedophiles w/ Perfect Contrition can be reconciled
to the Church. Some has their conscience “seared as
w/ a hot iron” 1 Tim 4:2 .
Also as an aside “Do not throw pearls before swine
lest they trample them under foot and turn and tear you”
is an injunction to be heeded. Some paedophiles are
just like unreasoning animals.
 
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I’m sorry if I came as being HARSH on Paedophiles,
but I know of one(He doesn’t even believe in God)
and is unrepentant of his lust for juveniles.
I guess it’s DIFFERENT for a Catholic who has
pedophilia b/c he/she is indwelt by the Holy Spirit,
and cannot sin(continue in live in sin) b/c he/she
has been born of God. 1 John 3:9
 
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nicholasG said:
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hoping4more:
‘the church has had many abusers yet they are sinners too, and are pearls in need of polishing’
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I don’t think sex abusers are pearls.
How about sympathy for the abused and not the abuser.
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Most pedophiles (as opposed to abusers in general) were themselves molested as children. So it’s not like two totally separate populations.
 
The great majority of sex abusers are not pedophiles, though a pedophile usually abuses far more children.

The non pedophile abuser often has filled his senses with alcohol, drugs, or is dealing with depression. He is not choosing the teen girl (or
a boy) out of preference but because he can’t get an adult woman or man, this is the one who is available.

The pedophile would never dull his senses. He is more likely to go after a boy, especially a boy the same age as he was when he was molested.

I suspect there are pedophiles who have never molested, if they know what they are.

Prayers needed for both groups.
 
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commenter said:
Most pedophiles (as opposed to abusers in general) were themselves molested as children. So it’s not like two totally separate populations.
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Very true. I think three of my greatest concern are:
  1. The victims and families not being supported by the Church.
  2. The Churches coverups.
  3. Creating a lack of trust in the Church.
 
nicholasG said:
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commenter:
Most pedophiles (as opposed to abusers in general) were themselves molested as children. So it’s not like two totally separate populations.
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Very true. I think three of my greatest concern are:
  1. The victims and families not being supported by the Church.
  2. The Churches coverups.
  3. Creating a lack of trust in the Church.
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I worked in the area of abuse for decades.

What you say in #1 and #2 are equally true for government and non sectarian agencies as well. Abuse in government custody, foster care, is far, far more common than reported.

Your point #3 reflects grim reality within the Church especially from 1960 to 2000 (yes cover-ups happened since). The media did not invent that issue. That said, the selective loss of trust also results from selective reporting, or rather selective non reporting.
 
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nicholasG said:
Very true. I think three of my greatest concern are:
  1. The victims and families not being supported by the Church.
  2. The Churches coverups.
  3. Creating a lack of trust in the Church.
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This is, by far, the most perfect summation of my concerns about the scandals. The scandals have devastated the church, and the hits seem to keep coming.
 
If it were me, I would be consulting with fellow parishiners about this matter.
 
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