P
pnewton
Guest
I have a more cynical view of why forty year old news is re-presented continually.
- Status
P
pnewton
Guest
I agree with what you are saying, but both the Church or the justice system may have a role. Forgiveness does not involve a dispensation from justice, and in the case of criminal behavior, the civil government is the one that carries the sword for the punishment of evil behavior. That said, it is not unheard of for probation to be a part of first offenses, if the circumstances warrant it.
I also agree that trust should not play a role. In those cases where probation and house confinement is deemed sufficient, it still must be verified through electronic monitoring.
However, in a lot of these cases, so much time has passed that a conviction cannot be legally sought, or is practically impossible to prove. In such case, where the guilt is still admitted, then I can see the Church imposing some sort of confinement for prayer.
N
nicholasG
Guest
Maybe you should explain your view to the victims of 40 years ago.
Last edited:
P
pnewton
Guest
Why should I? That was 40 years ago. Victims of sexual abuse are not exclusive in in having hardship in life. But at least there was time in the past when the crime could have been addressed through the justice system. That time is not now.
I said above that forgiveness does not dispense from justice, as one must live with the consequences of one’s actions. Those that commit crimes must live with it. Those that do not report crimes have to live with that as well. Sometimes, these priest continued to abuse others because earlier victims did not come forward. There is no blame on them, if they could not, but the result was still a continuation of abuse.
I said above that forgiveness does not dispense from justice, as one must live with the consequences of one’s actions. Those that commit crimes must live with it. Those that do not report crimes have to live with that as well. Sometimes, these priest continued to abuse others because earlier victims did not come forward. There is no blame on them, if they could not, but the result was still a continuation of abuse.
Last edited:
I agree but if the Church has a role it needs to be after the justice system has finished with it’s process, and with the agreement of the justice system.
The biggest problem with the Church having a role in this, is that it is putting ordinary priests and religious in a position of responsibility over a criminal, who may be looking for an opportunity to reoffend.
I was living with a religious order for a year while discerning a vocation, and this was a dilemma that we faced. Oddly, the older members seemed to take the view that the Order should take responsibility for this man after his prison term was up, and that he was “a brother”. Many of the younger ones, some of whom would have to actually be involved in babysitting this guy after his release, were in favour of an expulsion from the order and defrocking.
In the end he was expelled and defrocked, and will be monitored by the civil authorities on his release from prison.
Bottom line, you can’t talk about giving someone a life of penance without consulting the people who will be living with and monitoring the offender.
Don’t know about the criminal justice system in the US but in many European countries there’s no time limit. Unless the alleged perpetrator is dead, a prosecution can take place. But these cases are not all historical. Many new cases are being reported and the Church’s previous soft-touch approach isn’t working. Heads need to roll. Bishops and priests who covered up need to go. Orders and congregations need to be suppressed if necessary. But the idea that we need to be preaching from the pulpit that “paedophiles can be saved”, or that they’re “pearls in need of polishing” is absurd. Who really needs to hear that.
A
Anesti33
Guest
Paedophiles do?
P
pnewton
Guest
Most crimes here have a statute of limitations. Even in countries where there is not such a statute, there still is sort of a limitation. After a certain point in time for some crimes, there can be no physical evidence. I guess if there a justice system operated of the premise of guilty until proven innocent this would not be a problem, or a case where a judge can just decide who he wants to believe. I know this is not what I consider justice, but I do not want to presume my values are universal.
J
johnnykins
Guest
I’m afraid if I walked into a Church and heard something like that - especially if I had children - I’d be heading to another parish. This sounds too much like an excuse. i don’t trust the Bishops to handle anything like this properly - not a one.
If you’ve known him for years, sure - go talk with him frankly and clearly. If not, get out now…
This has gone on far too long with way too many excuses, prevarications, lies, and cover-ups both by the perps and the Bishops. Protect your children and go.
If you’ve known him for years, sure - go talk with him frankly and clearly. If not, get out now…
This has gone on far too long with way too many excuses, prevarications, lies, and cover-ups both by the perps and the Bishops. Protect your children and go.
N
nicholasG
Guest
[
The Church seems to have the same attitude Maybe that’s why we still have this problem.
Last edited:
P
pnewton
Guest
Thank you, especially as this “problem” has been addressed a most remarkable and successful ways. That is why old cases have to keep being brought back up to make the news. New cases of this are much fewer and are referred to police, you know, those people who are supposed to investigate criminals.
P
pnewton
Guest
I think we need to remember that we do not get the full context. I can see pedophiles being used as a type in an illustration, just like Jesus used tax collectors as a type. They represent the most detestable of sinners we can imagine. If we were allowed to forgive everything, and love everyone with one exception, pedophiles would be that exception. Therefore, they can represent an ideal, that if we can learn to see Christ even in them and extend mercy that far, then we can be ready for Heaven.
A
Anesti33
Guest
Once again, I am sorry that abuse has wounded you so deeply and profoundly. There is help available, there is hope and healing.
E
Elf01
Guest
Given the scandals I don’t think the example is prudent. It is a good point, but, I think it could be made more effectivly with a different example.
N
nicholasG
Guest
How do you know?
Children don’t often report abuse until there adults. 20, 30, or more years after the abuse occurs. That’s why they want to eliminate the statute of limitations in these cases. So, 30 years from now when the abuse is reported, what’s the Church (and you) going to say? Oh! That happened 30 years ago, why bring that up, why is the media reporting this.
A
Anesti33
Guest
The Church has taken extraordinary measures to ensure that the faithful are aware of warning signs, boundary violations, and actual abuse. She trains all clery, religious, staff, volunteers in Safe Environment policies and procedures so that everyone is aware of their obligations to report. The climate of fear and secrecy that shrouded abuse cases is changing. It is a cultural change; there is no silver bullet or panacea, but there will be results from education and awareness campaigns.pnewton:
How do you know?
Children don’t often report abuse until there adults. 20, 30, or more years after the abuse occurs. That’s why they want to eliminate the statute of limitations in these cases. So, 30 years from now when the abuse is reported, what’s the Church (and you) going to say? Oh! That happened 30 years ago, why bring that up, why is the media reporting this.
P
pnewton
Guest
I do not like child predators. I refuse to fall into this sort of pessimism that nothing can be done.
Yes, to say the least. I would go farther and say that it is quite distasteful.
- Status