Pentagon Study: Low Risk to Ending 'Don't Ask'

[Orleans_Attny]

I was at the Marine Corps Ball last week. Many people brought their kids with them. If they don’t think that seeing two male Marines dancing and smooching on the dance floor will not impact morale, the brass of the military has gotten softer and more PC than I thought.

In my 16 years of military service, there are a number of things that I’ve never seen at a military ball.

Here are two:

1. Kids; and
2. Smooching

So I’ll file this comment appropriately.

Pax,
OA

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

And it’s quite possible there are child molesters or necrophiliacs presently in the military who are good soldiers. Does that mean, then, that the government should endorse pedophilia or necrophilia? No, it doesn’t.

And, worse! Maybe a squad of homosexuals will show up while heterosexual soldiers are sleeping and forcibly re-decorate their barracks.

 

[bbarrick8383]

If the commanders can not decide what their policies will be and DADT is overturned then enlisted and officers should be allowed to have relationships as well.

If everyone wants to complain then DADT can go into effect for everyone hetero and homosexual.

This is the military, not the regular world. Those in charge should know better than anyone the impacts that overturning DADT could have on their units.

 

[gilliam]

If the commanders can not decide what their policies will be and DADT is overturned then enlisted and officers should be allowed to have relationships as well.

If everyone wants to complain then DADT can go into effect for everyone hetero and homosexual.

This is the military, not the regular world. Those in charge should know better than anyone the impacts that overturning DADT could have on their units.

DADT and the Code of Military Justice is law. It isn’t up to the commanders, it is up to congress.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

They are “discriminated against” only as regards their wearing their active homosexuality on their sleeves.

Do you think they’re going to wear a rainbow shoulder flash that says “Gay” to advertise that they’re homosexual??

Now, would I favor the military officially endorsing other forms of advertising gross immorality? No I would not. In fact, while the military is not consistent with it, it does, indeed “discriminate” against people whose lifestyles are grossly immoral in other ways.

You call it “gross immorality.” You can call it any peorative you like. The Services, however, won’t.

In any event, is it truly “unjust” to have rules, let’s say, in corporate society that I cannot have sex with co-workers?

Homosexuals are no more going to engage in sex with co-workers while they’re on duty than heterosexuals are going to. You have a very vivid imagination.

Nor do I think the Church would say it is “unjust” if homosexuals are expected to refrain from committing scandal by their words or actions.

The Church would say the same to heterosexuals.

And it’s quite possible there are child molesters or necrophiliacs presently in the military who are good soldiers. Does that mean, then, that the government should endorse pedophilia or necrophilia? No, it doesn’t.

The Armed Forces are not going to “endorse” homosexuality any more than heterosexuality.

 

[stanmaxkolbe]

In my 16 years of military service, there are a number of things that I’ve never seen at a military ball.

Here are two:

1. Kids; and
2. Smooching

So I’ll file this comment appropriately.

Pax,
OA

Thank you I was going say something about kids at a military ball also but I don’t know what Marines do? I know the Air Force doesn’t have kids there either.

 

[edwest2]

Do you think they’re going to wear a rainbow shoulder flash that says “Gay” to advertise that they’re homosexual??

You call it “gross immorality.” You can call it any peorative you like. The Services, however, won’t.

Homosexuals are no more going to engage in sex with co-workers while they’re on duty than heterosexuals are going to. You have a very vivid imagination.

The Church would say the same to heterosexuals.

The Armed Forces are not going to “endorse” homosexuality any more than heterosexuality.

Oh yes they will if DADT is repealed. They’ll have to regard ‘married’ gay couples as married people with all the attendant other stuff. That’s the plan. Repeal DADT and Mr. and Mr. Smith get a level of recognition from the military of the United States. Which they hope will normalize the gay marriage situation for civilians.

If you’re a lawyer, look up 1973 and the nonscientific vote that removed homosexuality from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual. If that doesn’t matter then just say so.

Peace,
Ed

 

[bbarrick8383]

DADT and the Code of Military Justice is law. It isn’t up to the commanders, it is up to congress.

Yes, I understand that. I’m just not sure that congress knows what’s good for anyone anymore.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

In my 16 years of military service, there are a number of things that I’ve never seen at a military ball.

Here are two:

1. Kids; and
2. Smooching

So I’ll file this comment appropriately.

Pax,
OA

You just go right on ahead and file it wherever it makes you happy, but I have been to more than one Marine Corps Ball and it is a family event. People bring their kids. With regards to “smooching”, it happens during the dancing/social party of the evening. People slow dance. They kiss. Is this really a news event?

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Yes, I understand that. I’m just not sure that congress knows what’s good for anyone anymore.

Well, they know what’s good for themselves and the special interest lobbyist who pad their pockets.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

And, worse! Maybe a squad of homosexuals will show up while heterosexual soldiers are sleeping and forcibly re-decorate their barracks.

Even better, why bother with separate barracks? Just take the final step and have everyone, male, female, gay, straight sleep together, shower together, toilet together, eat together as one big happy unit? I mean, we are aiming to build an environment of tolerance and responsibility. Doesn’t disintergrated barracks send the message that we don’t trust the boys and girls to sleep under the same roof, or in the same quonset huts?

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

You just go right on ahead and file it wherever it makes you happy, but I have been to more than one Marine Corps Ball and it is a family event. People bring their kids. With regards to “smooching”, it happens during the dancing/social party of the evening. People slow dance. They kiss. Is this really a news event?

The Army and the Air Force regard a Ball as an affair for adults (who wants kids running all over the ballroom floor?) and reserve lovemaking for private moments. But, to each his own.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Even better, why bother with separate barracks? Just take the final step and have everyone, male, female, gay, straight sleep together, shower together, toilet together, eat together as one big happy unit? I mean, we are aiming to build an environment of tolerance and responsibility. Doesn’t disintergrated barracks send the message that we don’t trust the boys and girls to sleep under the same roof, or in the same quonset huts?

You and all the others with objections may carry on with those objections. Congress will, soon enoough, abolish DADT just as Truman abolished segregated military units, and all this will have been a tempest in a teapot.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

The Army and the Air Force regard a Ball as an affair for adults (who wants kids running all over the ballroom floor?) and reserve lovemaking for private moments. But, to each his own.

1. Apparently the Marine Corps has a higher regard for total family than do the Air Force or Army. Who said anything about “kids running around everywhere”? Some people bring their children, usually officers, and the kids are without exception, well behaved.
2. Who said anything about lovemaking? People kiss when they slow dance. What is the issue here? (Aside from the Public Display of Affection, but this is a social event. I never said anything about people humping in the corner)

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

You and all the others with objections may carry on with those objections. Congress will, soon enoough, abolish DADT just as Truman abolished segregated military units, and all this will have been a tempest in a teapot.

And then there is the last form of discrimination and segregation, gender based. Why not just get rid of it all. Since apparently being black is the same thing as being gay. I am sure that the african american community will be pleased to hear that.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

1. Apparently the Marine Corps has a higher regard for total family than do the Air Force or Army.

Maybe so. I know the Air Force tends to see its adult functions as for adults. “Family” functions are things generally associated with family occasions.

Who said anything about “kids running around everywhere”? Some people bring their children, usually officers, and the kids are without exception, well behaved.

Why bring them? I’ve had to wear my Mess Dress uniform and my wife a gown to those Balls. For her at least, it was an occasion to dress up and dine and dance and socialize with other intelligent adults without having to drag along four little kids, whom she has to deal with every day. Sometimes a man wants to be a husband and a woman a wife without having to be a father and a mother all the time.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Maybe so. I know the Air Force tends to see its adult functions as for adults. “Family” functions are things generally associated with family occasions.

Why bring them? I’ve had to wear my Mess Dress uniform and my wife a gown to those Balls. For her at least, it was an occasion to dress up and dine and dance and socialize with other intelligent adults without having to drag along four little kids, whom she has to deal with every day. Sometimes a man wants to be a husband and a woman a wife without having to be a father and a mother all the time.

So, you don’t bring your kids. Still can’t see what the issue is. Then again, Marines tend to be more generational than the other branches.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Then again, Marines tend to be more generational than the other branches.

Not sure what you mean - you were a Marine, as was your Dad, and your grandfather before that? You meet and marry women who are somehow associated with the Corps - Marines themselves or daughters or sisters of other Marines and such. Nothing amiss with that, and I can see that it would tend to creat a more tightly knit organization.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Not sure what you mean - you were a Marine, as was your Dad, and your grandfather before that? You meet and marry women who are somehow associated with the Corps - Marines themselves or daughters or sisters of other Marines and such. Nothing amiss with that, and I can see that it would tend to creat a more tightly knit organization.

That’s what I mean, although I bucked the trend and went Navy…as a Hospital Corpsman with the Marines.

 

[Ridgerunner]

What if you’re in the military for 18 years and you didn’t flash you’re a homosexual but it’s found out.

You’re total professional in your duties however you have a commander that hates homosexuals you get a bad efficiency report you’re not going to get promoted or that commander is going make your life miserable.

Or tries to kick you out for being homosexual—that’s not right man.

I know some of this stuff is complicated and some of it is over my head when it comes to politics—I just know the men and woman I serve with over the years had my back and I had theirs—they would put their lives on the line to defend another trooper that’s what’s it’s all about.

They deserve better.

Come on comparing homosexuals to criminals now. That’s what the LSM did to all the Catholic Priests in the United Staes and that was low.

The military has its own ways about scandalous behavior though, I’l grant, they’re not consistent. I know a man who was a Lt. Colonel. He got involved in an indiscretion with a woman who was not his wife. Nobody knew about it but his wife and the participants. His wife filed for divorce, alleging adultery and subpoenaed the “other woman” for a deposition. The man was up for full Colonel and was told very firmly that if the divorce went through with evidence of the allegations introduced into the record, he could kiss his promotion goodbye. Since he was at the “up or out” point, that would have been the end for him. He reconciled with his wife and she dismissed her suit. He received his promotion.

Presumably, that still goes on, being about five years ago. Some now advocate that a homosexual can advertise that he commits sodomy; bring his partner to social events, perhaps serially, and some want the military to say that’s okay, whereas the allegation of adultery by the Colonel is not.