Perhaps my time here is over

[Valke2]

When Shimon Bar-Kochba appeared, and then Shabbatai Zvi, and a few others who were believed to be the Messiah, what do you think had happened to make people believe it was the Messiah indeed? They came AFTER Jesus of Nazareth. Surely, Rabbi Akiva must not have believed that about Bar Kochba just from a thought popping out in his mind? A serious scholar would have checked this out about what should be the characteristics of the promised Messiah, wouldn’t he not? and where would he check that out? I believe the Talmud was not yet published then…

THey all came at a time when Jews were desperate for a leader who could return them to self-rule. I’m not sure where you are going with this. Akiva would have relied on the scripture and Mishna, (which although not written, actually quotes him at some length. )

 

[po18guy]

I think she’s waiting for us to beg her to stay.

WHERE’S ROSALIND MOSS???
Also, an excellent book to read might be Honey from the Rock, Roy Schoeman’s compilation of the stories of sixteen converts to Catholicism who viewed it as the fulfillment of Judaism.

 

[HashemEchad]

WHERE’S ROSALIND MOSS???
Also, an excellent book to read might be Honey from the Rock, Roy Schoeman’s compilation of the stories of sixteen converts to Catholicism who viewed it as the fulfillment of Judaism.

Maybe you haven’t read all my posts (chuckle) ALL of this is old hat to me. See previous posts for the reason why.

You don’t need to trot out your parade of trophy Jews, I already know ALL about them, have read their works, and even have read works by some you probably don’t know of (like Ronda Chervin and the Drogins, not to mention the late Arthur Klyber.)

 

[jmcrae]

Maybe you haven’t read all my posts (chuckle) ALL of this is old hat to me. See previous posts for the reason why.

You don’t need to trot out your parade of trophy Jews, I already know ALL about them, have read their works, and even have read works by some you probably don’t know of (like Ronda Chervin and the Drogins, not to mention the late Arthur Klyber.)

Is Rosalind Moss on staff at CAF? (I’m not completely sure.)

Anyway, I think he was asking whether she would add her comments to this thread (assuming she’s reading along); not “trotting her out” as a “trophy” - that sounds totally offensive, anyway.

 

[HashemEchad]

Is Rosalind Moss on staff at CAF? (I’m not completely sure.)

Anyway, I think he was asking whether she would add her comments to this thread (assuming she’s reading along); not “trotting her out” as a “trophy” - that sounds totally offensive, anyway.

Rosalind Moss is still on staff for CAF; in fact if you check the website where her profile is, you’ll find she charges $1,600.00 for speaking engagements, not counting travel expenses…

catholic.com/seminars/moss.asp

I doubt we could afford to have her come to this thread, even if we all chipped in!

 

[jmcrae]

Rosalind Moss is still on staff for CAF; in fact if you check the website where her profile is, you’ll find she charges $1,600.00 for speaking engagements, not counting travel expenses…

catholic.com/seminars/moss.asp

I doubt we could afford to have her come to this thread, even if we all chipped in!

The rest of us come on here for free …

(Of course, we aren’t nearly as popular, either … )

 

[HashemEchad]

The rest of us come on here for free …

(Of course, we aren’t nearly as popular, either … )

I wonder why she charges, and charges so much…for almost 30 years I’ve worked with Jewish countermissionaries and anti-cult experts, to get Jewish kids out of cults, etc…and have never charged anyone a dime. We don’t do it for money, we do it to help people.

 

[YADA]

I provide you with the TRUTH about someone you thought was saintly, and for that you play the martyr?

TRUTH as you have presented comes with its own biases … You call these people “trophies” which denotes your bias … YOur Rabbi friend [Trovia] has his own biases, I have read his web site … perhaps that is why you feel the need to spell truth “TRUTH” …

It is no secret that the Rabbi had issues with some of the other JEwish leadership … is that not always the case with persons in leadership roles? … Zolli wrote and spoke of this but not with the vehemance you [and others who hold your ‘he was an apostate’ view] do … the truth is proabably somewhere in the middle …

I will jus note that: He was not singled out for protection in the Vatican but was only one of many jews who received protection from the Nazis … so he did not abandon all the people in their time of need … a rash claim [IMHO] … Many more would have died had they not found protection in the Vatican and in other churches, and monastaries in Rome and other places.

And I deplore the holocaust that occurred and I am saddened that individuals of all persuasians did not do more to prevent it … But I recognize the work of many to stop and or prevent harm during this dark time … and the jewish people may have suffered the most and were indeed a major target but others too were targeted and suffered, they too need to be remembered … and honored …

My father received two purple hearts, two silver stars and a bronze star in WWII. An event that changed his entire life …

Personally, I do not consider any person a “trophy” and find that accusation insuting … you stated that people convert from ignorance … ignorance of their faith, of hebrew and of their cuture … this Rabbi [and many others] can not be thrown into this categorie … so you [and others who hold your views I imagine] have to find diffferent ways to attack the man [and his character] to justify your position.

 

[jmcrae]

I wonder why she charges, and charges so much.

Most likely it is because the people she wants to give talks to will pay her that much to do it, and that if she did it for free, she’d be doing it full time. Charging for it probably cuts down on the number of requests she gets, thus providing her with time to do her work and run her household.

…for almost 30 years I’ve worked with Jewish countermissionaries and anti-cult experts, to get Jewish kids out of cults, etc…and have never charged anyone a dime. We don’t do it for money, we do it to help people.

I get paid a wage to do what I do (evangelize children), and it makes me feel good that what I do is valuable enough to the Church that they don’t mind paying for it.

 

[LaMar]

Because Jews only exist to teach the world about God, they have no purpose other than that.

Besides if you really believe in God then you can’t possibly think God would be ok with Satanism.

And we aren’t bothering your neighbors, we’re here on a Catholic forum talking about religion. So I expect people to say what they really believe here, not some mealy mouth “I’m ok, you’re ok” nonsense, if deep down you think God might not like what the other guy is doing.

That’s what’s so funny. You’re here on a Catholic forum, as Catholics, and most of you are behaving like perfect masochists, delighting in hostile banter.

I don’t see Satanists doing this, so why would I care about them? Why did you bring them up? This is not a Satanism forum, it’s a Catholic forum.

Back to the topic at hand, this sort of behavior is quite revealing, and does not suggest that the Catholics here have much in the way of peace or happiness. Many here seem quite angry and at least one admits to being “in a recovery process” (the person who made that statement refused to elaborate, but it was illustrative enough).

This all suggests Catholicism might be traumatic or unpleasant. With this in mind, why would Hashem be interested in leaving behind her own peaceful tradition in favor of one which apparently motivates such angst? No rational person would. Do you imagine that this sort of interaction would suggest that this would be a sound decision? To go chasing after whatever motivates people to indulge in constant conflict with others?

 

[LaMar]

I agree with you 100%. I actually do have a neighbor (on my street) who is a neo-Nazi skinhead. He knows we’re Jewish, but believe it or not, we get along. He doesn’t try to convert me (why would he anyway, right?), and I don’t try to convert him (as if I could!)

YOWZA!

I don’t know if I would be happy to have such a neighbor myself, but I’m sure I wouldn’t bother him or her, provided s/he didn’t preach himself into my face at the block party and otherwise behaved with dignity when out in public.

It’s a strange world, and everyone has his own thing…

Edited to add: Did you ever see a film called The Believer?
imdb.com/title/tt0247199/

Check it out sometime if you get a minute. I’d love to hear what you think about it.

 

[po18guy]

God resurrected Jesus from the dead child of David and Bathsheba into Mary’s womb.

Well, this claim must be reconciled with Christ’s own words:
John 8:58 “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
If Jesus was a liar, then the Quran must be questioned and re-written, correct?

 

[LaMar]

God resurrected Jesus from the dead child of David and Bathsheba into Mary’s womb. Like He raises these bones here:

Ezekiel 37:4-5 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD. Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:

If Adam returned to dust and bones in death…

Quran 3:59 Lo! the likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then He said unto him: Be! and he is.

Interesting. David and Bathsheba’s child was resurrected and placed into Mary’s womb.

Is this a common belief among Catholics? If not, where does it originate?

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Interesting. David and Bathsheba’s child was resurrected and placed into Mary’s womb.

Is this a common belief among Catholics? If not, where does it originate?

I never heard of it until the Quran led me to see it. I wondered what the Quran meant when it said Jesus was created from dust similar to how Adam was. Since Jesus must have descent from David to be Messiah, and since dead people return to dust, I looked for a good candidate for Jesus to be resurrected from. And I found it in the innocent child who paid the price for David’s sin, since Jesus did a similar thing for all people.

So it answers all questions for me, like why Jesus was in Heaven before he was born through Mary. And the messy lineage problems of Matthew and Luke. And a lot of other things that always caused me doubt about Jesus.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Well, this claim must be reconciled with Christ’s own words:
John 8:58 “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
If Jesus was a liar, then the Quran must be questioned and re-written, correct?

Jesus was talking about being like Melchizedek, who was before Abraham was. He wasn’t saying he was the Father deity who spoke to Moses.

John 8:53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

Hebrews 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

John 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

Hebrews 5:4-6 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

The blind man also used the same phrase I AM, EGO EIMI. It’s not a claim of deity, but saying who is in relation to the conversation. In John 8 the conversation is about being the Messiah who is like Melchizedek foretold in Psalms.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

That’s what’s so funny. You’re here on a Catholic forum, as Catholics, and most of you are behaving like perfect masochists, delighting in hostile banter.

I don’t see Satanists doing this, so why would I care about them? Why did you bring them up? This is not a Satanism forum, it’s a Catholic forum.

When people who claim to believe in God say Gentiles can follow any religion they want, even Satanism, I disagree.

She can come here and say why Jesus isn’t Messiah, I can say her statement is unsound for someone who claims belief in God.

That’s how it works.

 

[Righteousone]

Edith Stein by her own admission (I have read her writings), was an ATHEIST before becoming a Catholic, so I doubt you can claim her as a trophy Jew for the Catholic church. Any acsdemic knowledge she has would not matter either, because your Christian testament says, “Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools”, right?

In my experience working with Jews who have returned to Judaism, I only remember one who had any adequate prior knowledge of Judaism before becoming Christian. In general, Jews who intermarry and Jews who convert out are incredibly ignorant of Judaism before they marry out or convert. Studies have even proven this.

Why does it bother you that the Christian testament is not taught in Hebrew school? We also don’t teach about the Bhagavad-Gita, the Tibetan Book of the Dead, the Presbyterian Shorter Catechism, the Anglican Book of Common Prayer, or the Confessions of St Augustine. because for the most part (except where the history of Christian persecutions of the Jews comes up), THESE ARE ALL IRRELEVANT TO OUR FAITH.

You see, Christianity came out of Judaism, our faith did not come out of yours. So while it would be important for you to learn about Jewish ways, beliefs, etc to better understand your own Christian testament, it is not important for us to do the same.

Point being Edith Stein was from a STRICT Jewish family. The NT should be taught in Hebrew school because it is part of the bible. Your right, Christianity came out of Judiasm, as Christ came right from the OT. Your arrogance in saying “your faith comes from mine” is really ridiculous because it shows how the OT foreseen Jesus Christ.

 

[Kaninchen]

The NT should be taught in Hebrew school because it is part of the bible.

Rather a pointless statement, isn’t it? It isn’t going to happen, anymore than a Catholic education is going to include the Qur’an and Book of Mormon.

Your right, Christianity came out of Judiasm, as Christ came right from the OT.

Or not, depending on who is doing the analysis.

 

[Righteousone]

What is sad here is Jesus was “rejectd” 2,000 years ago by his own people, things never change. I don’t think the Jews are still “God’s chosen people”. They use to be, but not any more.

 

[Kaninchen]

What is sad here is Jesus was “rejectd” 2,000 years ago by his own people, things never change. I don’t think the Jews are still “God’s chosen people”. They use to be, but not any more.

Oh dear.