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Icemoon
Guest
100 only?
I can tell you, biblically, ten tribes out of twelve were lost before Yeshua.
Lost means they ceased to be Jewish anymore.
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I can tell you, biblically, ten tribes out of twelve were lost before Yeshua.
Lost means they ceased to be Jewish anymore.
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bobzills
Guest
There are conversions back and forth on both sides. For example, at our Catholic school, there was a colleague who converted to Judaism and is now studying to be a rabbi. There have been Catholic priests who have converted to Islam. For example:
youtube.com/watch?v=pn0iPlWQNlI
So, the fact that people have converted from one religion to another, doesn;t necessarily prove anything.
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Brian_Millar
Guest
But what you say about my Lord holds even deeper feeling to me then the genecide being attempted to be covered up, donât you see my point of view now?
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MementoMori3283
Guest
any takers?
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HashemEchad
Guest
Well, then, my mother was raised a very STRICT Catholic (since you like that word, but it means different things to different people.)
My mother was baptized, attended weekly a Tridentine Latin Mass, received her first holy communion (which I have pictures of), yet she chose to convert to Orthodox Judaism during WW2. She was a STRICT Catholic in the days when the Catholic church still was VERY strict, yet she chose to become Jewish.
I have a very dear friend who used to be a Carmelite nun, and she also chose to convert to Judaism. She was âstrictâ too!
There have been MANY cases of Catholics and others who have chosen to convert to Judaism, including Deborah Wigoder, who had been a STRICT Catholic until she discovered Judaism. She wrote a book, âHope Is My Houseâ.
And then there was also Stephen Dubner, the 8th child of Jews who had converted to Catholicism many years ago. No one was STRICTER as Catholics than they were (converts tend to be like that), yet when he grew up, he discovered his true Jewish heritage and faith, and is now a STRICT Orthodox Jew, married to a Jewish woman, with Jewish children. He, too, wrote a book: âTurbulent Soulsâ.
I could give you MANY other examples, but Iâm not here to convert anyone to Judaism. So why do you throw so many examples at me if youâre not trying to dissuade me from my Covenant with God?
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MementoMori3283
Guest
No, we canât, but ultimately oneâs concern should not be for their life, only what the Lord demands of you.Stein, by her own admission in her writings, was not a religious Jew. She said she converted to Catholicism from atheism.
Why not read her writings and see for yourself?
The PRIMARY reason why Jews converted to Catholicism in medieval times and into the 1800s was a) to save their lives, because Catholic monarchs often threatened them with âbaptism or deathâ, or b) they did it (mostly 1700s-1800s) to advance socially and in the business world (because often, only Christians got the best jobs and academic positions.)
When you shove your religion down our throats, you canât really blame those of us who took advantage of the opportunity to use it for OUR best interests.
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Valke2
Guest
As far as I know, it applies to all Jews. Iâd take exception with Messianic Jews being Jews, unless their mother was Jewish. All that you posted will be accomplished. Some of our biggest tragedies in the past have been supporting a false messiah before these things were accomplished.
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dosdog
Guest
Essenes Sadduccees Pharisees
The Sadduccees, which in Hebrew means ârighteousâ, were one group. They were characterized by their novel interpretations of the Torah. Although they did not accept the tradition of the âoralâ Torah, that is the verbal traditions, they were very active in upholding the Torah in itâs strict literal sense
In opposition to the Sadduccees, the Pharisees taught that the proper interpretation of the Torah was based on the verbal tradition.
The third group, the Essenes,This group is also referred to as the Qumran community; they are generally believed to be the authors of the Dead Sea Scrolls Essenes did not marry; they shared property in common; they ate all meals together; and they lived a strictly regulated life of study and prayer; and they held themselves to a higher standard of virtue than others outside their community.
were an ascetic group. They rejected both the Pharisees and the Sadduccees as not being acceptable. Although the Essenes were closer in philosophy and tradition to the Pharisees than to the Sadduccees, still the Pharisees were considered corrupt, since their lives were much more worldly and therefore seemingly less intense in the religious observance than the Essenes. The priests, who conducted the services in the Temple according to the ways of the Pharisees, were also deemed evil. The Essenes retreated from the controversy between the Pharisees and the Sadduccees and sought out a more purified life style in the tranquility of a hermit type existence
One of the differences between the Essenes and the Pharisees was in the calendar. The Jewish people today follow the calendar of the Pharisees. This calendar is based on the moon. The month will have either 29 or 30 days depending on the sighting of the moon. Since a lunar year is 29.5 days times 12 months equaling 354 days. A solar year is 364.25 days, therefore the lunar year is short by 10.25 days from the solar year. The rabbis therefore had to add extra month every three years to make up this difference, otherwise the holidays, (such as Pesach would not be celebrated in the beginning of the summer) would rotate around the year.
To the Essenes, this calendar was an abomination. Their calendar was a solar calendar. Each month had 30 days. One month in three had 31 days, hence each season (three months ) had 91 days. Each year had 364 days. The holidays began on the same day of the week each year (as opposed to our calendar where the New Year varies from year to year on which day of the week it falls).
Historians have long pointed to the Essenes as the forerunner to the Christians. It is known that early Christians took much from the Essenes and their doctrine of asceticism. Their abhorrence of the Temple service and view of the evil priests is well documented. Since the early Christian religion began protest group and as an extension of Judaism, it has been speculated that the early Christian leaders circulated amongst the Essenes. Much of the changes and reforms set in motion by the Essenes gave impetus to the early Christians to make further changes. However since they changed too many of the main tenets of the Jewish religion, they were not successful in attracting Jewish followers.
Today, all Judaism is based on the Pharisees. The calendar is universally accepted in the Jewish world.
jewishmag.com/14MAG/ESSENES/essenes.htm
academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/history/dfg/jesu/topic2.htm
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MementoMori3283
Guest
sounds great, when it happens, how will it be proven?
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MementoMori3283
Guest
found this, it appears to be aproposStein, by her own admission in her writings, was not a religious Jew. She said she converted to Catholicism from atheism.
Why not read her writings and see for yourself?
The PRIMARY reason why Jews converted to Catholicism in medieval times and into the 1800s was a) to save their lives, because Catholic monarchs often threatened them with âbaptism or deathâ, or b) they did it (mostly 1700s-1800s) to advance socially and in the business world (because often, only Christians got the best jobs and academic positions.)
When you shove your religion down our throats, you canât really blame those of us who took advantage of the opportunity to use it for OUR best interests.
*A âGer Tzedekâ (true convert) is a gentile who became a Jew out of a sincere and deep conviction in the truth of the Jewish religion, without any other motivation whatever. Indeed, this is the only kind of conversion that the Torah recognizes.
For all such converts to Judaism it has always entailed supreme sacrifices; breaking off family ties, relationships with friends, giving up an easier life, perhaps also a promising future in the former society â all in order to embrace a religion that has often been despised and persecuted by the world at large, and to join a people that has always been a small minority in a hostile world. In former days, throughout the Middle Ages, converting to Judaism meant risking oneâs very life. Yet despite all of this, there have been Gerei-Tzedek throughout the generations who freely chose to join the Jewish people, because they came to realize that it is truly âA Kingdom of G-dâs Servants and a Holy Nation,â and decided to become a member of this Nation and lead a life sanctified by the Divine Torah and Mitzvos.
The story we are going to tell you here is the story of Avorhom ben Avorohom, the Ger Tzedek of Wilno, who readily went to his martyred death, being burnt alive on the second day of Shovuos, in the year 5509 (1749).*
By Nissan Mindell
full story - chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/112488/jewish/The-Ger-Tzedek-of-Wilno.htm
The content in this page is produced by Chabad.org, and is copyrighted by the author and/or Chabad.org. If you enjoyed this article, we encourage you to distribute it further, provided that you do not revise any part of it, and you include this note, credit the author, and link to www.chabad.org. If you wish to republish this article in a periodical, book, or website, please email permissions@chabad.org.
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HashemEchad
Guest
WowâŚjustâŚwow.
I clicked to read that testimony; that is really an amazing story, and Iâd not heard of him before!
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Lapell
Guest
Hum! Yeshua of Nazareth did exist historically, sorry!
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Lapell
Guest
So, she did practice Judaism once upon a time!
Whether Jews were Protestants or atheists before becoming Catholics, if they once practiced Judaism, this fact remains.
Why do you brandish the fact that they donât come directly from Judaism as though it would mean that if they practiced Judaism once and became Catholic after a while, even after having been in another state, you would automatically have to convert?
Maybe the replies you just had had to do with how you seem to have made it sound as though those people never practised Judaism at any point in their lives, rather than with any desire to convert you (except maybe for a few)âŚ
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Lapell
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HashemEchad
Guest
Iâll explain why: the implication by the OP is that Moss was a religious Jew, and that AS a Jew, she somehow âsaw the lightâ and went shmad to Catholicism.
But thatâs being disingenuous, because the TRUE motivation for her conversion to Catholicism stemmed from her 18 years as an Evangelical Protestant, because she came to believe that the Catholic church, as opposed to the Protestant ones, was âthe true churchâ. I hardly think a Jew with NO prior involvement in Protestantism, would suddenly wake up one day and say, âYou know? I think the Catholic church is the true CHURCHâ. Thatâs more how a *Protestant * would think.
Iâd be curious to know how Moss presents herself when speaking to Protestants as opposed to JewsâŚthe apostle Paul said that it was acceptable to present yourself in differing ways, if it would gain the conversion of other people (âto the Jews, I became as a Jew so that I might win the Jewsâ, and so on, from 1 Corinthians.)
As for Edith Stein, *her own writings *attest that she was never a religious Jew, but an atheist. Simply having had family members that were religious doesnât mean anything if you yourself never accepted any of it.
As for Jesus truly existing, can you prove it? And I mean more than just a tiny, isolated reference in Josephus.
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Lapell
Guest
Well, I thought the rabbis could state wonderful truths coming from God just with âtinyâ Biblical references from the Torah!
Josephus is not the only historical reference, by any means! I think there is a âtinyâ mention of it in a writing by a Roman author, I think it was Pline the younger (Sorry, I donât know how the one transcribed in French as Pline le Jeune -as opposed to Pline lâAncien (the elder, or maybe Sr.)⌠there are a few more âtinyâ references, but actually I am not writing from home, where my books and notes are, so excuse me, I am not ready to reply with great exactitude here. But yes, there ARE references!
When it comes to historical evidence, even âtinyâ things count, you should know that!!!
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Lapell
Guest
How do YOU know that she never, never practised Judaism at any point in her life?
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HashemEchad
Guest
There seems to have been some talk on this forum and elsewhere, to the effect that Jews who go shmad (especially to Catholicism) are viciously persecuted, shunned, etc by their fellow Jews.
I actually wish that were the case, because to me, it would show that the Jewish community cared about them still.
But the sad reality is that some rabbis feel such Jews were not âqualityâ Jews in the first place, if they could go so far as to convert to another religion, especially a very non-Jewish one. Hence, they write them off, so to speak and feel their time is more productively spent on helping Jews who ARE committed, or potential converts (since converts usually have far more commitment.)
However, many rabbis and Jews do not feel that way. We recognize that within each Jew, no matter how estranged she/he is from their people, has a Jewish spark, the neshoma, inside of them. And that any Jew can find their way home. And to such Jews, I will always say, âThe door is always open to you.â
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Lapell
Guest
Including when a teenager?
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HashemEchad
Guest
Iâm going by what Edith Stein herself said, in her writings. She seemed eager to establish that she was never a religious Jew (though her family was somewhat religious), and that she converted to Catholicism from atheism.
I often wondered why she took such pains to establish that, and then realized she probably wanted to assure her family that she was not going to allow herself to be paraded about as a star convert from Judaism.
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