Person Vs Nature

[afthomercy]

The nature is the source of our power- what we are. So you and I have a human nature, we can do the things humans can do. One’s personhood is incommunicable- not capable of being shared. So while all humans have a human nature my person pertains to me alone.

Good point: The personhood is unique, but the nature is generic (common) to the class of persons. The human nature is generic to the class of humans, the angelic nature is generic to the class of angels and the divine nature is generic to the three Persons.

When you say that your person pertains to you alone, can you put your finger on it? Can you say what exactly it is that you do not share with the rest of humankind? I would say that it is the Jeremiah 1:5a thought under which God created you. That specific thought is your personal identity and it is never the same for two individuals.

The Godhead is uncreated, so Jeremiah 1:5a is inapplicable to it, but still, it has 3-identities in it, and it is those identities that constitute the distinction between the Persons. [CCC261 The mystery of the Most Holy Trinity is the central mystery of the Christian faith and of Christian life. God alone can make it known to us by revealing himself as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.]

You could say that for the Incarnation, the Godhead did not have a fresh Jeremiah 1:5a thought, but simply gave the Christ, the same identity it held as THE SON, and that is what makes the Christ and the Son the same Person. If you went up to the Christ and asked him who are you, I expect him to reply “I am THE SON, also known by the name Jesus.”

 

[PHSshamrock]

When you say that your person pertains to you alone, can you put your finger on it? Can you say what exactly it is that you do not share with the rest of humankind? I would say that it is the Jeremiah 1:5a thought under which God created you. That specific thought is your personal identity and it is never the same for two individuals.

True, also we are incommunicable persons simply because no one else was born of the same parents, at the same time, and lived the same lives as us. Even twins never occupy the same space… And no one can become you, as hard as they might try to mimic you. This last thought is also true for the Most Holy Trinity. God cannot become the Son, the Son cannot become the Spirit etc.

 

[jochoa]

My friend, I have been under the impression that you are dictating your message in ALL CAPS and Italics to assist in the distinction of your words and mine. Is this correct?

CONSIDER YOUR BODY WHEN IT SHALL LIE IN THE GRAVE. WOULD YOU STILL SAY THAT?

Regarding My Body in the Grave
Sure. I believe Jesus will raise Us in a similar manner as to how He was Risen. And from the following Scriptures, Jesus Resurrected has a Body, as well as Spirit.
Luke 24:39
John 20:27

ITS OK TO USE “HE” FOR THE GODHEAD OR THE DIVINE PERSONS COLLECTIVELY, AS WELL AS FOR EACH DIVINE PERSON INDIVIDUALLY, BUT YOU WERE JUMPING BETWEEN THE PERSONS WHEN USING IT, THUS CONFUSING THE ISSUE

Although it is somewhat confusing, I think it is important to recognize that The Father is God, The Son is God, The Holy Spirit is God, God is the Holy Trinity. And yet, All three are One. I also think it would serve greater purpose to conceptualize the Trinity in a manner that allows for the same definition of Person to be applied equally to all three Persons, as well as persons of human beings.

DESPITE YOUR EXAMPLES, NO, THE FATHER IS ETERNALLY PURE SPIRIT

How do you define “Spirit?” Does a Spirit have an Image?

WHAT’S THE RELEVANCE?

In a previous reply, you marked “???” next to Human Nature becoming Atone with God’s Nature. I am trying to demonstrate that while on earth, Jesus had a Human Nature and a Godly Nature because He developed His Human Nature to be One with God’s Nature.

Please note: I am trying to share a method to easily conceptualize the Holy Trinity. I still have not understand how my understandings are outside of Catholicism. Please share a Catechism which I cannot justify given my reflections.

Thank you very much for your time and considerations. I look forward to hearing your thoughts,

 

[levinas12]

The personhood is unique, but the nature is generic (common) to the class of persons. The human nature is generic to the class of humans, the angelic nature is generic to the class of angels and the divine nature is generic to the three Persons.

A person is a singularity that cannot be defined by species and genus.

And the “uniqueness” of a person is not determined by the matter. Because “person” is not a form, is not a nature, that the many can “participate” in. John Doe is not an instantiation of the form “John Doe”. But “John Doe” along with other human beings participates in a form (human nature).

Likewise, each angel is a person, a singularity – but there is a difference – unlike human persons that can share a nature, each angel is its own species (because there is no matter to individuate a form).

And God Himself falls outside species and genus. Because He is Infinite (not bounded by a species and genus).

It is as persons that we are most fundamentally made in God’s image.

n.b. Aristotle never understood “person”. That’s why Thomism based on Aristotle has had hard time with “person”. A “who” can never be reduced to a “what”. The early Heidegger provides an insight into “person” when he talks about the “da”, the “there” in “being-there” (“Da-sein”) – a “there” that cannot be “replaced” by another “there” (e.g., “no one can die my death”).

 

[afthomercy]

My friend, I have been under the impression that you are dictating your message in ALL CAPS and Italics to assist in the distinction of your words and mine. Is this correct? YES

Regarding My Body in the Grave.
Sure. I believe Jesus will raise Us in a similar manner as to how He was Risen. And from the following Scriptures, Jesus Resurrected has a Body, as well as Spirit.
Luke 24:39
John 20:27
I FEEL THAT BETWEEN A WHO AND A WHAT, THE BODY FALLS INTO THE WHAT

Although it is somewhat confusing, I think it is important to recognize that The Father is God, The Son is God, The Holy Spirit is God, God is the Holy Trinity. And yet, All three are One. I also think it would serve greater purpose to conceptualize the Trinity in a manner that allows for the same definition of Person to be applied equally to all three Persons, as well as persons of human beings. THAT IS ALSO MY ENDEAVOUR

How do you define “Spirit?” Does a Spirit have an Image? SPIRIT MEANS IMMATERIAL, SO HAVING AN IMAGE SHOULD BE UNDERSTOOD IN THE SENSE OF SPIRITUAL ATTRIBUTES, SUCH AS ABILITY TO REASON, LOVE, BE ALTRUISTIC, ETC.

In a previous reply, you marked “???” next to Human Nature becoming Atone with God’s Nature. I am trying to demonstrate that while on earth, Jesus had a Human Nature and a Godly Nature because He developed His Human Nature to be One with God’s Nature.
I’M NOT FAMILIAR TO THIS USAGE OF ATONE. I’M OK WITH THE REST OF YOUR STATEMENT.
Please note: I am trying to share a method to easily conceptualize the Holy Trinity. I still have not understand how my understandings are outside of Catholicism. Please share a Catechism which I cannot justify given my reflections. YOU SAID, FOR INSTANCE, THAT THE FATHER HAD A BODY, THAT HE TRANSFERED THIS BODY TO HIS SON AND THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS A MAN. YOU ALSO SAY THAT GOD CHANGES FORM.

Thank you very much for your time and considerations. I look forward to hearing your thoughts,

 

[afthomercy]

a person is a singularity that cannot be defined by species and genus. Excellent! It means that we can attempt a definition of person that fits across all, whether belonging to a species/genus or not, and that’s what I’m trying to do.

And the “uniqueness” of a person is not determined by the matter. Because “person” is not a form, is not a nature, that the many can “participate” in. John doe is not an instantiation of the form “john doe”. But “john doe” along with other human beings participates in a form (human nature).

Likewise, each angel is a person, a singularity – but there is a difference – unlike human persons that can share a nature, each angel is its own species (because there is no matter to individuate a form). Are you sure about this? I always thought angels belonged to a class. Each angel being its own species is something new! Sources?

And god himself falls outside species and genus. Because he is infinite (not bounded by a species and genus).

It is as persons that we are most fundamentally made in god’s image. This gives me hope that the definition of personhood that we apply for man should be valid for God and vice-a-versa

n.b. Aristotle never understood “person”. That’s why thomism based on aristotle has had hard time with “person”. A “who” can never be reduced to a “what”. The early heidegger provides an insight into “person” when he talks about the “da”, the “there” in “being-there” (“da-sein”) – a “there” that cannot be “replaced” by another “there” (e.g., “no one can die my death”).

I have place my own views in bold within your sentences. How do you see my tendency to distinguish between persons by their “unique identifier” being in conformity with your views? Unique identifier, in the case of human and angelic persons would be God’s Jeremiah 1:5a thought concerning them, and in case of the divine Persons, it would be the Godhead’s self-identity thought, as put out in CCC261. Of course Jeremiah 1:5a does not specifically deal with angels, but we can apply the same analogy to them!

 

[afthomercy]

True, also we are incommunicable persons simply because no one else was born of the same parents, at the same time, and lived the same lives as us. Even twins never occupy the same space… And no one can become you, as hard as they might try to mimic you. This last thought is also true for the Most Holy Trinity. God cannot become the Son, the Son cannot become the Spirit etc.

I can share my thoughts, my blood, my organs, my sperms and my stem cells, but try as I might, I can never share my IDENTITY, because I have no control over it. It was impressed upon me by the Creator and there is no way that I can shake it off/alter/amend/erase it. So, at the end of the day, it is the IDENTITY that is incommunicable, and no where do we see this more clearly than in the Godhead, where everything else is the same! The Father, Son and Spirit cannot exchange identities. This makes it sure that without an identity, you cannot have a person, or, identity is the hook by which the person hangs.

 

[levinas12]

I have place my own views in bold within your sentences.

For each angel being its own species, see Summa Theologica, First Part, Question 50, Section 2, Article 4 (and also Article 2). In Article 4, Thomas says that no two angels can belong to the same species.

newadvent.org/summa/1050.htm

 

[levinas12]

Hence it seems that God has a distinct thought in his mind under which He creates an individual. If true, this would be the ultimate differentiating factor between two individuals.

… I would venture to say that the God-thought imprinted on the soul is the essence of the person, This “I” concept is not dependant on consciousness, because it is imposed from above and exists whether the individual is aware of it or not.

Linking “person” to God’s thought is helpful … because, as you point out, in a crucial respect, it makes “person” independent of “consciousness” … in this way, we can say that the human “person” begins at conception (regardless of whether that “person” has consciousness at conception) … “person” has to be ontologically prior to “cogito” … because “person” along with his/her “nature” is, to put it in Kantian manner, the condition of possibility for the “cogito” …

Some might argue that bringing in God’s thought is not philosophically necessary … maybe this is true with respect to the specific “nature” or “form” of the human being … but “person” requires an “I-Thou” relationship … a “person” cannot be simply a free-floating disconnected entity … God, the eternal “Thou”, must “address” or “call” Adam for Adam the person to “pop” into existence … by the way, this is why Aristotle does not have an understanding of “person” because he does not recognize a Personal Creator …

 

[jochoa]

YOU SAID, FOR INSTANCE, THAT THE FATHER HAD A BODY, THAT HE TRANSFERED THIS BODY TO HIS SON AND THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS A MAN. YOU ALSO SAY THAT GOD CHANGES FORM.

Please understand that I am only sharing these reflections to provide a simple and logical understanding of a concept of God.
And to possibly help shed understanding on the stated understandings, please consider the following:
Do you believe that Jesus, in His Physical/earthly Form, is God? If so, then it can be said that God has a Body and in some concept, Changes Form. If not, this may be where our confusion with one another lies.
Do you believe that Humans can become God? If so, then the Holy Spirit could be a Human that achieves Atonement with God’s Nature by “learning and continuing the course of action”(proceeding) as set by the Son and the Father. In other words, He is the Will of the Body and Mind of God. If not, then please consider the CCC #470.

Thoughts?

 

[afthomercy]

Please understand that I am only sharing these reflections to provide a simple and logical understanding of a concept of God.
And to possibly help shed understanding on the stated understandings, please consider the following:
Do you believe that Jesus, in his physical/earthly form, is god? If so, then it can be said that God has a body and in some concept, changes form. If not, this may be where our confusion with one another lies. Ok, it is valid to say that the Second Person, who is eternally formless in the Holy Trinity, took on a form when He assumed the human nature. But this didn’t affect the eternal formlessness of the Trinity. Basically, you have to keep the two things separate.
Do you believe that humans can become God? Humans can never become God. How can a creature become the Creator? Defies logic! They can at most become god-like, with the assistance of the Holy Spirit. In fact, that is their calling!

If so, then the Holy Spirit could be a human that achieves atonement with God’s nature by “learning and continuing the course of action”(proceeding) as set by the Son and the Father. In other words, He is the will of the body and mind of God. Again you use that term “atone”! Only the Second Person holds two natures. The First and Third Persons eternally hold only the divine nature. That the Second Person assumed a human nature is true. That a human person assumes the divine nature is false.

If not, then please consider the ccc #470. **Everything in that para talks of Christ and the Second Person. I don’t see even a whiff of the Third Person! It looks like you are somehow trying to make the Holy Spirit “proceed” from the Christ. The Holy Spirit ‘proceeds’ from the Father and the Son. This procession is difficult to understand/explain, but by no stretch of imagination does it connote a procession from the human to divine! **Thoughts?

My thoughts within yours in bold

 

[afthomercy]

Linking “person” to God’s thought is helpful … because, as you point out, in a crucial respect, it makes “person” independent of “consciousness” … in this way, we can say that the human “person” begins at conception (regardless of whether that “person” has consciousness at conception) … “person” has to be ontologically prior to “cogito” … because “person” along with his/her “nature” is, to put it in Kantian manner, the condition of possibility for the “cogito” …

Some might argue that bringing in God’s thought is not philosophically necessary … maybe this is true with respect to the specific “nature” or “form” of the human being … but “person” requires an “I-Thou” relationship … a “person” cannot be simply a free-floating disconnected entity … God, the eternal “Thou”, must “address” or “call” Adam for Adam the person to “pop” into existence … by the way, this is why Aristotle does not have an understanding of “person” because he does not recognize a Personal Creator …

Thank you! Then it means that I’m spot-on when I define “person” as the confluence of an identity and a nature. In the case of created persons, that identity is authored by the Creator, and in case of the Creator himself, it is held by the Creator in respect of himself. If the Creator has given himself 3-identities, who is to question that? He is sovereign!

Lets test this out on the 3-different kinds of persons:
Human person = God-given identity plus human nature
Angelic person = God-given identity plus angelic nature
Divine Person = Self-given identity plus divine nature

And in the case of the Incarnation, it is God’s “the SON” identity plus human nature.

A flow-through of this concept is that all humans and angels have ‘pre-existance’ as individual thoughts in the mind of God, but they only become persons when He clothes that thought with a “nature”.

Pure philosophy that has no room for a personal God would never agree with this, however, we who do believe in a personal God, may.

 

[jochoa]

Ok, it is valid to say that the Second Person, who is eternally formless in the Holy Trinity, took on a form when He assumed the human nature. But this didn’t affect the eternal formlessness of the Trinity. Basically, you have to keep the two things separate.

I agree with you, in that the Holy Trinity has an eternal formless state. I validate this by, In the beginning, God, the One who would Create All Things, Thought of All the Things that were to happen. These Thoughts are eternally formless and unchanging. However, to make These Thoughts physically happen, the Thoughts had to take on a physical form. I am stating that the Thoughts taking on a physical form are separate, but Equally God.

How can a creature become the Creator? Defies logic! They can at most become god-like, with the assistance of the Holy Spirit. In fact, that is their calling!

God is the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Therefore, if a Person(s) can become One in Spirit(Body, Mind, and Will) with God’s Nature and Will All the Time, S/He will, in the least, be a Holy Spirit.

Again you use that term “atone”! Only the Second Person holds two natures. The First and Third Persons eternally hold only the divine nature. That the Second Person assumed a human nature is true. That a human person assumes the divine nature is false.

Please consider the following regarding atone.
I am using the term literally as “At One,” which is the same atone, however, I would possibly consider a slight consideration in optimism over pessimism. Typically, atone implies a heavy consideration of sins. I am implying a heavy consideration of Always being Kind. Jesus’ Human Nature became Eternally At One with God’s Nature. Therefore, our human nature can become eternally At One with God’s Nature. When we are eternally One with God, it can be stated that we became God.
-I personally find great alignment with this concept in your words: “…the Holy Spirit, the third “I” in conjunction with the Divine nature. That’s how we say that the…Holy Spirit is God. And that is also how we are prevented from saying that they are 3-gods, but that they are 3-persons in one God.”

Everything in that para talks of Christ and the Second Person. I don’t see even a whiff of the Third Person! It looks like you are somehow trying to make the Holy Spirit “proceed” from the Christ. The Holy Spirit ‘proceeds’ from the Father and the Son. This procession is difficult to understand/explain, but by no stretch of imagination does it connote a procession from the human to divine!

I agree that the Holy Spirit must proceed from the Father and the Son. However, I also recognize that the only way to the Father, is through the Son. Therefore, the Holy Spirit must proceed from the Son, in order to proceed from the Father and the Son.

Thoughts?

I hope you know – I greatly appreciate your time and consideration! I have grown tremendously in understanding and faith from considering your thoughts. I have thoroughly enjoyed conversing with you and look forward to more conversation.

 

[afthomercy]

I agree with you, in that the Holy Trinity has an eternal formless state. I validate this by, In the beginning, God, the One who would Create All Things, Thought of All the Things that were to happen. These Thoughts are eternally formless and unchanging. However, to make These Thoughts physically happen, the Thoughts had to take on a physical form. I am stating that the Thoughts taking on a physical form are separate, but Equally God. THIS IS MORE LIKE EASTERN (HINDU-BUDDHIST) THOUGHT. THEY CONSIDER EVERYTHING AND EVERYBODY GOD!

God is the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. IT IS BETTER TO SAY THAT THE FATHER IS GOD, THE SON IS GOD AND THE HOLY SPIRIT IS GOD. Therefore, if a Person(s) can become One in Spirit(Body, Mind, and Will) AGAIN YOU ARE GIVING GOD A BODY. EXCEPT AS THE SECOND PERSON IN HIS HUMAN NATURE, GOD DOESN’T HAVE A BODY, SO PLEASE BE SPECIFIC with God’s Nature and Will WILL RESIDES IN THE NATURE, SO YOU CAN’T SAY NATURE AND WILL All the Time, S/He will, in the least, be a Holy Spirit. YES, BUT NOT THE (CAPITALISED) HOLY SPIRIT

Please consider the following regarding atone.
I am using the term literally as “At One,” which is the same atone, however, I would possibly consider a slight consideration in optimism over pessimism. Typically, atone implies a heavy consideration of sins. I am implying a heavy consideration of Always being Kind. Jesus’ Human Nature became Eternally At One with God’s Nature. Therefore, our human nature can become eternally At One with God’s Nature. When we are eternally One with God, it can be stated that we became God. ABSOLUTELY NO! WE CAN NEVER BECOME GOD. FOR US, THE CREATURE BECOMING THE CREATOR IS ABSURD, BUT FOR THE EASTERN RELIGIONS, IT IS POSSIBLE, BECAUSE THEY SAY THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE THE CREATURES ARE ORIGINALLY PARTS OF GOD. SO AGAIN, YOUR THOUGHT HAS SHADES OF EASTERN THINKING. THEY SAY THAT THE GOAL OF EACH INDIVIDUAL SOUL IS TO MERGE INTO THE PARA BRAHMAN, SUCH THAT SEPARATION DOES NOT EXIST.
-I personally find great alignment with this concept in your words: “…the Holy Spirit, the third “I” in conjunction with the Divine nature. That’s how we say that the…Holy Spirit is God. And that is also how we are prevented from saying that they are 3-gods, but that they are 3-persons in one God.” HOW?

I agree that the Holy Spirit must proceed from the Father and the Son. However, I also recognize that the only way to the Father, is through the Son. Therefore, the Holy Spirit must proceed from the Son, in order to proceed from the Father and the Son. THESE PROCESSIONS ARE WITHIN GOD. THE SON BEING THE WAY TO THE FATHER IS FOR US CREATURES, AND NOT FOR THE DIVINE PERSONS THEMSELVES.

Thoughts?

I hope you know – I greatly appreciate your time and consideration! I have grown tremendously in understanding and faith from considering your thoughts. I have thoroughly enjoyed conversing with you and look forward to more conversation. I NOW GET THE FEELING THAT YOU HAVE BEEN DABBLING IN EASTERN RELIGIONS

 

[afthomercy]

In continuation of post# 71 on pg. 5, I would like to explore the question of whether the person (as defined by me) is a dichotomy? This is important, because if it is indeed a dichotomy, then the defn fails in respect of God, who is simple. I’d say that the person is not a dichotomy, because we cannot have an identity without a nature. We can have a nature without an identity, which is what animals, plants and rocks are, in the eyes of God, but not the vice-versa. God does not create a class of beings who though born with human genes, do not spring from a Jeremiah 1:5a thought of His mind. In the case of the Divine Persons, the identity IS the nature (Thomas Aquinas puts it as “in God, the essence is the same as person” ccel.org/a/aquinas/summa/FP/FP039.html#FPQ39OUTP1)). Hence, I would say that the person is not a dichotomy, but a singularity.

 

[jochoa]

THIS IS MORE LIKE EASTERN (HINDU-BUDDHIST) THOUGHT. THEY CONSIDER EVERYTHING AND EVERYBODY GOD!

Please consider a couple of things regarding my reflections:

1. Before Creation, God Thought of what He wanted. He wanted others to freely share and participate in the awesomeness of Unbreakable Peace, Limitless Happiness, and Unstoppable Energy. To do this, He knew He had to create Beings which were Freely Willed. Therefore, He designed a system that would create Genuinely Free Willed Beings. Since He is all knowing, He was able to determine how these Free Willed Beings would act given a material world, in which they were to able to freely interact, procreate, and govern. During this Imaging of what was to happen, we truly had free will. After He followed the plan through, from Beginning to End, and saw that the Result was Just and Achieving of His Desire, He made it Happen. Therefore, although everything is of God’s Thoughts, does not mean that Everybody chooses to be or wants to be of God’s Nature.
2. As followers of Christ, shouldn’t we treat people as though they have the Holy Spirit in them? Shouldn’t we see Christ in our neighbors?

AGAIN YOU ARE GIVING GOD A BODY. EXCEPT AS THE SECOND PERSON IN HIS HUMAN NATURE, GOD DOESN’T HAVE A BODY, SO PLEASE BE SPECIFIC

Please consider this method of recognizing God has a Body:
We believe the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are Consubstantial, of the same Substance or Essence.
Substance can be defined as a particular kind of matter with uniform properties.
Since substance is matter, this matter could be considered the Body of God.
Essence can be defined as a property or group of properties of something without which it would not exist or be what it is.
Without Jesus on earth, God would not be what it is. Therefore, Jesus on earth, must be fully God. Jesus has a Body, therefore God has a Body.
Whether you use Essence or Substance, God must have a Body.

WILL RESIDES IN THE NATURE, SO YOU CAN’T SAY NATURE AND WILL

Would you say that Thoughts also reside in the Nature? Would you say that God has an eternally unchanging nature?

ABSOLUTELY NO! WE CAN NEVER BECOME GOD.

Although I agree with you in that we can never be The Creator or the Initial State of God(the beginning of before creation), the Catechisms of Catholicism state directly that Man can become God. Therefore, there must be a method of conceptualizing God which allows for this.

Regarding Eastern Religions
Please note a couple of considerations:

1. I read very little about Buddhism a few months ago, but was too founded in Christianity to consider it any further.
2. If these alignments are factual, I find it very interesting that Catholicism and Other Religions are somewhat aligned. For that would indicate that God is working All over the World at the Same Time. I think the Bottom Line from God’s Perspective is: Whatever understandings get a person to not only want to, but also to Achieve and “Spread the Means to” Unbreakable Peace, Limitless Happiness, and Unstoppable Energy through Unconditional Patience, Kindness, and Motivation, is a Valid Human Understanding.

Thoughts?

 

[afthomercy]

Please consider a couple of things regarding my reflections:

1. Before Creation, God Thought of what He wanted. He wanted others to freely share and participate in the awesomeness of Unbreakable Peace, Limitless Happiness, and Unstoppable Energy. To do this, He knew He had to create Beings which were Freely Willed. Therefore, He designed a system that would create Genuinely Free Willed Beings. Since He is all knowing, He was able to determine how these Free Willed Beings would act given a material world, in which they were to able to freely interact, procreate, and govern. During this Imaging of what was to happen, we truly had free will. After He followed the plan through, from Beginning to End, and saw that the Result was Just and Achieving of His Desire, He made it Happen. Therefore, although everything is of God’s Thoughts, does not mean that Everybody chooses to be or wants to be of God’s Nature. ARE THESE YOUR OWN THOUGHTS, OR CAN YOU QUOTE SPECIFIC SOURCES?
2. As followers of Christ, shouldn’t we treat people as though they have the Holy Spirit in them? Shouldn’t we see Christ in our neighbors? VERY TRUE

Please consider this method of recognizing God has a Body:
We believe the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are Consubstantial, of the same Substance or Essence.
Substance can be defined as a particular kind of matter with uniform properties.
Since substance is matter, this matter could be considered the Body of God.
Essence can be defined as a property or group of properties of something without which it would not exist or be what it is. PLEASE READ THOMAS AQUINAS AGAIN. HE HAS EXPOUNDED ON THIS TOPIC IN QUITE SOME DEPTH IN THE SUMMA. NO NEED TO REINVENT THE WHEEL.
Without Jesus on earth, God would not be what it is. Therefore, Jesus on earth, must be fully God. Jesus has a Body, therefore God has a Body. Whether you use Essence or Substance, God must have a Body. LOOKS LIKE I’M NOT GETTING THROUGH TO YOU, SINCE WE HAVE GONE OVER THIS BEFORE.
Would you say that Thoughts also reside in the Nature? I DON’T KNOW. IT IS SAID THAT WE MUST DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THE ATTRIBUTES RELATIVE TO GOD’S BEING (HIS SIMPLICITY, INFINITY, ETERNITY AND INCOMPREHENSIBILITY) AND THOSE RELATING TO THE DIVINE OPERATIONS (IN THE INTELLECT, WISDOM AND PROVIDENCE; IN THE WILL, LOVE WITH ITS TWO GREAT VIRTUES, MERCY AND JUSTICE; AND FINALLY, OMNIPOTENCE. PROBABLY THOUGHTS RELATE TO THE DIVINE OPERATIONS AND NOT TO HIS BEING Would you say that God has an eternally unchanging nature? YES, BUT IN THE CASE OF GOD, THE PERSON AND THE ESSENCE ARE THE SAME, OR THE PERSON IS THE SUBSTANCE, IN KEEPING WITH THE PRINCIPLE OF DIVINE SIMPLICITY.

Although I agree with you in that we can never be The Creator or the Initial State of God(the beginning of before creation), the Catechisms of Catholicism state directly that Man can become God. CAN YOU PLEASE QUOTE THE CCC PARA#.? Therefore, there must be a method of conceptualizing God which allows for this.

Regarding Eastern Religions
Please note a couple of considerations:

1. I read very little about Buddhism a few months ago, but was too founded in Christianity to consider it any further.
2. If these alignments are factual, I find it very interesting that Catholicism and Other Religions are somewhat aligned. For that would indicate that God is working All over the World at the Same Time. I think the Bottom Line from God’s Perspective is: Whatever understandings get a person to not only want to, but also to Achieve and “Spread the Means to” Unbreakable Peace, Limitless Happiness, and Unstoppable Energy through Unconditional Patience, Kindness, and Motivation, is a Valid Human Understanding.
   THERE IS A WORD FOR THIS: SYNCRETISM, WHICH IS, MIXING DIFFERENT RELIGIOUS STREAMS. I FIND IT ABHORRENT.
   Thoughts?

 

[jochoa]

ARE THESE YOUR OWN THOUGHTS, OR CAN YOU QUOTE SPECIFIC SOURCES?

Unfortunately, at this time I do not have the time nor wisdom to fully co-relate each line to the exact line of each source. However, I assure you that what I share are personal reflections from the Combination of Scripture (founded primarily on the Greatest Commandments), as Jesus Taught and Demonstrated in His Crucifixion, as Celebrated in the Sacraments of Catholicism, as found in Prayers of Catholicism, as Taught by the Catechisms of the Church, as Experienced in Life.

PLEASE READ THOMAS AQUINAS AGAIN. HE HAS EXPOUNDED ON THIS TOPIC IN QUITE SOME DEPTH IN THE SUMMA. NO NEED TO REINVENT THE WHEEL.

Will do.

Reflections Regarding God’s Person and Nature are the Same
Please note that I am in agreement with you, however I validate these understandings given various understandings of time prior to creation and various definitions of person and nature.
Please clarify my understandings of your understandings:
The Knowledge is in the Nature.
The Body is in the Nature.
The Will is in the Nature.
Regarding God, His Nature is the same as His Person. His Person is inseparable from His Nature.

CAN YOU PLEASE QUOTE THE CCC PARA#?

I apologize for stating the wrong Catechism earlier. I accidentally confused the CCC# and the Intratext CT#. I meant to reference CCC# 460.

Regarding Syncretism
Please consider these adapted understandings:
I know God is calling Man all the time to draw closer to Him. Some people choose to listen and some people choose to ignore the calling. Of those who listen, some choose or are somehow limited (by earthly lifespan or earthly authorities, in particular) to only listen or abide to a certain degree of the Truth. I am stating that Catholicism, in and of itself, is The Fullness of Truth. I do not want to nor am I trying to mix religious concepts.

Regarding Simplicity of God’s Being
I think the following conceptualization of God can allow for One Person to be Three Persons, while using strict definitions equally applicable to both God and Man.
Prior to God’s Person becoming Flesh, He knew all that was to happen, in order to guide genuinely free willed beings to His Blessings and Nature.
When God’s Person became Flesh.
His Spirit is The Father.
His Mind is Fully the Father’s Mind.
His Image/Body is Fully the Image of the Father and the Body of the Son.
His Will is Fully the Will of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Thoughts?

 

[afthomercy]

Unfortunately, at this time I do not have the time nor wisdom to fully co-relate each line to the exact line of each source…Thoughts?

Friend, I have reached the limit of my explaining capacity, so please excuse me if I can’t comment/guide you any further. I am sure that with sufficient prayer, reading and reflections, God will lead you into a better understanding…

 

[afthomercy]

It is a truism to state that all men (and women) are created equal and unique. The root of this statement lies in the underlying Jeremiah 1:5a thought. Since those thoughts are equal, the resultant individuals are equal. Since those thoughts are unique, the resultant individuals are unique.

“…formed you in your mother’s womb” is an earthy way of saying “vested you with a nature”. Hence for the angels, I would modify this verse to “Before I vested you with a nature, I knew you”