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fix
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Yes, by that standard I am the worst mass murderer in history.:whacky:
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Hospitaller
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IMHO this is exactly the sort of support the Church *doesn’t *need.
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pnewton
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The I will explain it to you. Romano stated, "and listen to what a real Christian has to say about all this. " In a previous post he stated,“And here are these guys actually trying to justify it? And pretending at the same time to be Christians?”
Almost everyone here is trying to stick to what the Catechism teaches (and not go beyond it). Romano is implying we are not Christian. Either he has no concept of what it means to be a Christian or he is just being vindictive. Conteplative gave him the benefit of the doubt.
I think romano goes beyond the church teaching in this area and also criticizes others for not doing the same, yet I would not challenge his relationship with Christ over such trivial matters.
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tuopaolo
Guest
Actually, I think that it might cause PETA-friendly or liberal people who are not Catholic to look into becoming Catholic.
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romano
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It isn’t “vindictive” to point out the truth. It is to do people a service. The trouble is, there are many who don’t like the truth, and they can become very “vindictive” indeed when the truth is pointed out to them, murderously so. Witness what happened to the prophets. Witness what happened to Christ.
Neither is what I have posted. My posts referred specifically to factory farm produce.
I think you should read it again. To pretend that one is in favor of better treatment of animals while not condemning factory farm produce is sheer hypocrisy.
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Trelow
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We hunt and fish about half of our meat, are we evil?
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romano
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Hi Fireman Frank:
Thank you. I’m happy you saw the point of the St. Isaac passage. Here’s another from p.69 of the same source for you:
"The humble man approaches wild animals, and the moment they catch sight of him their ferocity is tamed. They come up and cling to him as to their Master, wagging their tails and licking his hands and feet. They scent as coming from him the same fragrance that came from Adam before the transgresssion, the time when they were gathered together before him and he gave them names in Paradise. This scent was taken away from us, but Christ has renewed and given it back to us at his coming. It is this which has sweetened the fragrance of humanity."
The relation between holy beings and animals can be very striking. Such beings can, and in fact do, restore the relation which existed between man and animals in Paradise before the fall. There are well-attested instances of this. But such a restoration demands real humility, real love, a love which is sadly lacking in so many today.
The narrow path, the Christian path of love and humility, the path on which we would acquire that “sweet fragrance” referred to by St. Isaac, is a path few seem prepared to tread. The “fragrance” emanating from those on the broad path, from the supporters of cruelty, is far from “sweet.”
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romano
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Nope. But I’ll bet you’re constipated.
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Trelow
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Nope. Sorry.Nope. But I’ll bet you’re constipated.
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Trelow
Guest
What about me? I am an avid hunter, casual fisher, and former farmer (would love to get back into that), and animals absolutely adore me.
I believe that animals have such a respect for the order of creation that what causes them harm is for that order to be disrupted. Look at their social structures, clearly they understand order and dominance. Look at those animals who behave outside of the norm, the majority to the time they are outside of their proper place, they either have an owner who abuses them or more often they have a companion that unnaturally elevates them outside of their status.
Animals thrive best when under man’s domination. that is clearly taught by scripture and proven in action. Not withstanding that man can slide either way.
But my friend you are dangerously close to taking this to a unnatural level, and are placing the animals in too high a bracket, upsetting their balance.
They are here to serve us, and through us serve God.
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romano
Guest
Throw a rock into a pool and the ripples will spread. Here’s an interesting news item I just ran into:
local6.com/news/4496638/detail.html
**Deputy Suspended After Using Taser Gun On Handcuffed Girl
POSTED: 12:02 am EDT May 17, 2005
UPDATED: 12:38 pm EDT May 17, 2005
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. – An officer has been suspended for zapping a 13-year-old girl at least twice with a stun gun while she was handcuffed in his caged patrol car.**.
Cruelty spreads, folks. It starts with cruelty to animals, but then it spreads. I’ve read about grandmothers being tasered, pregnant women being tasered, and now we have a kid being tasered. And there’s much worse than tasering going on, and not every officer indulging in violence is being charged. And yet you argue in favor of cruelty?
Do you really suppose those ripples will never reach you?
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romano
Guest
In case you haven’t noticed, this thread is about CRUELTY TO ANIMALS.
Pain is pain. Suffering is suffering. Whether it is that of a man or an animal. Pain hurts. So stop hiding behind irrelevant pieties.
Why don’t you just be honest and admit that you don’t care about suffering so long as it isn’t you who is suffering?
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Trelow
Guest
what about pain and suffering of plants?
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romano
Guest
John told us to “repent.” Christ told us to “repent.” The Rheims translates the Greek ‘metanoeite’ as “DO PENANCE” (Matthew 3:2, 4:17) because it has to do not just with ‘feeling’ something but with DOING SOMETHING, turning around, making a 180 degree shift, cleaning up one’s act. This isn’t easy, which is why most folks will find an excuse, any excuse, for not doing it.
There is an extensive literature on the cruelty involved in the meat industry. But even though you may not care about animals, you presumably do care about your own health. So, for what it may be worth, here’s one book the hard cases on this thread might read:
MAD COWBOY: Plain Truth from the Cattle Rancher Who Won’t Eat Meat by Howard F. Lyman.
You can find it at:
amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0684854465/ref=pd_sim_b_1/103-7263732-1539835?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance
You don’t have to buy the book. Just read a few of the reviews. There are currently 85 of them. Some of them are from folks like you. They will give you the picture.
In the meantime, I’ll be praying for you. And for the animals.
There is an extensive literature on the cruelty involved in the meat industry. But even though you may not care about animals, you presumably do care about your own health. So, for what it may be worth, here’s one book the hard cases on this thread might read:
MAD COWBOY: Plain Truth from the Cattle Rancher Who Won’t Eat Meat by Howard F. Lyman.
You can find it at:
amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0684854465/ref=pd_sim_b_1/103-7263732-1539835?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance
You don’t have to buy the book. Just read a few of the reviews. There are currently 85 of them. Some of them are from folks like you. They will give you the picture.
In the meantime, I’ll be praying for you. And for the animals.
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fix
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How many centuries have humans been eating meat?
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contemplative
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Published in 2001 !?!
Old stuff.
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CarolAnnSFO
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I would imagine that humans have been eating meat since God put them here on earth. Most of that time, they got their meat the old-fashioned way – hunting. That isn’t very practical today (at least in towns and cities).
I don’t think factory farming is a great thing, and I would like to see a better alternative. Right now, though, it just isn’t that easy to find meat processed in other ways, and when you do, it costs a fortune.
(Incidentally, if I did have to hunt to get meat, I would probably become a vegetarian.)
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fix
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My point is that each time one of these vegetarian threads come up I see a radicalized notion that equates animals with humans and makes vegetarianism holy and eating meat less than holy. This is propaganda.I would imagine that humans have been eating meat since God put them here on earth. Most of that time, they got their meat the old-fashioned way – hunting. That isn’t very practical today (at least in towns and cities).
I don’t think factory farming is a great thing, and I would like to see a better alternative. Right now, though, it just isn’t that easy to find meat processed in other ways, and when you do, it costs a fortune.
(Incidentally, if I did have to hunt to get meat, I would probably become a vegetarian.)
As to whether the meat industry is cruel is almost a non issue. There may be abuses in many avenues of life, that does not mean those abuses should end all meat eating or those who eat that meat are contributing to the abuse.
If things can be done better, fine. Work toward that end, but the radical fringe is just that…radical.
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Trelow
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They are nuts. The places they cite are as rare as a sane vegan. I have been to scads of slaughterhouses and various farms and have never seen anything like the stuff they love to cite as the norm.
You are correct, sheer propaganda.
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pnewton
Guest
Repentance applies to sin. Your post might have some validity if applied to a person who clubbed baby seals for a living, maybe.
If this a continuation of your rant against all who eat meat, then you have no authority to label something as a sin of which we need to repent. You have clearly exceeding church teaching in this matter, if you label all of us sinners for eating steak and chicken.
I have plenty of real sins I have to work on. I do not need pretend ones to worry about.
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