Petroleum and the future of civilization

[drpmjhess]

Looks like you’re zero for whatever, so far, Doug.

No, Doug is absolutely correct. The majority of humanity have no idea what they are in for beginning in a few years.

 

[ribozyme]

No, Doug is absolutely correct. The majority of humanity have no idea what they are in for beginning in a few years.

I really had high hopes humanity will use utilize technology to solve its problems, but it seems we cannot reach Kardashev I if that horrible event happens.

 

[Hastrman]

I really had high hopes humanity will use utilize technology to solve its problems, but it seems we cannot reach Kardashev I if that horrible event happens.

That’s because A) we gave car manufacturers too many choices and B) the environmentalist movement exists.

It ought to be a truism, but isn’t, that sometimes ideas get destroyed by guilt-by-association. Environmentalism is an example–it’s associated with people no sane person would have anything to do with. If you set the average Green activist to protest segregation, you could probably get blacks to sign up to man Bull Connor’s firehoses, rather than be seen as associated with such people. Human nature–I mean the real thing, not its imaginary nice qualities–is such that people will hurt themselves rather than be aligned with those they hate.

As to A, I think we need to stop mucking around with ethanol (it’s hurting the whole New World, where the staple crop is, duh, corn) and hydrogen cells (which give off water vapor…which is a worse greenhouse gas than CO2!), and abandon hybrids (since they’re just the same problem as gas, only more efficient…ish). We need to throw massive numbers of contracts at Tesla Motors, the inventors of the first non-punishment electric car, and anyone else who’ll work with induction motors.

 

[Al_Masetti]

No, Doug is absolutely correct. The majority of humanity have no idea what they are in for beginning in a few years.

My statement was that Doug’s box score was zero for whatever.

Meaning that each of his statements ranging from misquoting the Catechism of the Catholic Church to that there was no life before oil [ignoring coal, for example.] … was wrong.

Each of his historical statements was in serious error.

Remember the predictions in 1999 … that the turnover of the calendar to 2000 would cause widespread disaster. Yet the “advocates” for disaster turned out to be wrong. [There were, in fact, two or three glitches, but they were easily fixed.]

---

Ya know, keep in mind that fuel selection is really and truly merely a matter of economics. When one fuel “mode” gets too costly folks will switch to some other. Coal. Natural gas. Methanol. [Read Robert Zubrin’s book, “Energy Victory”.]

These substitutions have happened over and over in history.

Sometimes there are policy reasons for accelerating a change or for creating incentives to change. For example, to avoid having Saudi Arabia dictate U.S. foreign policy … it would be worthwhile to switch to “dual fuel” or Flex-Fuel vehicle fuels.

But the world switched from animal power to water power to wind power to coal / steam power to oil power to nuclear power. If a few people would get off their duffs, we could advance to fusion power by making a couple of more breakthroughs.

---

Ethanol is not the answer, but methanol is.

I was browsing through the January 14, 2008 issue of Aviation Week & Space Technology and on pages 53 - 55, the editors made their Annual Laureate Candidate Selections.

I found the following entry on page 55:

“William E. Harrison, 3rd, chief of the fuel branch at the Air Force Research Laboratory’s propulsion directorate at Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio, has spearheaded the Office of Secretary of Defense’s Assured Fuels Initiative to develop domestic fuel sources for U.S. air and ground forces. In 2007, the Air Force certificated a synthetic fuel – produced from coal and natural gas through the FISCHER-TROPSCH PROCESS [my emphasis] – that is being used in a 50-50 blend with a petroleum-based fuel in B-52 aircraft. The program is being extended to other aircraft and engines, research is broadening into other sources of synthetic fuel, and the FAA is working toward commercial use of such fuel.”

What the brief article fails to mention is that the liquid manufactured by the Fischer-Tropsch process is METHANOL.

This little bit of information is really essential to the overall discussion of alternatives to petroleum-based gasoline, diesel fuel, and jet fuel.

Interested folks should purchase and read Robert Zubrin’s book, “Energy Victory”. He goes into a lot of detail.

amazon.com/Energy-Victory…2353165&sr=1-1

I was recycling some old magazines and found an article on the latest technology in catalysts. Now, if someone is looking for a field of study … or just looking to have some research fun, finding out what’s going on in he field of catalysts might be interesting.

 

[Doug50]

Al, you’re a crank. Your abiotic stuff is enough for me to hold that view.

Even if petroleum production stays flat there’s the little problem of exporting countries increasing usage of their own production.

What you end up with, is exported oil declining faster then regional declines.

Jeffrey Brown, Dallas geologists, analysis of Mexico’s declining production along with increasing homegrown usage estimates exports out of Mexico (to the US) could end in 5 years. Mexico is the US’s second largest supplier behind Canada. A similar thing is happening in Saudi Arabia.

Brown isn’t alone in this asessment: research.cibcwm.com/economic_public/download/occrept62.pdf

Oh, sorry, I forget you won’t open that link because it’s evil.

We use to get (name removed by moderator)orts from England’s North Sea. England is no longer an exporter but an (name removed by moderator)orter.

 

[Al_Masetti]

First, posters are requested to be charitable.

Second, please quote me accurately. I never used the word “evil” … I merely said I had no confidence in the opinions of someone who is on the payroll of the Saudi “oil machine”. [aka Armaco]

Third, much of the petroleum assets are held by countries that impose a command economy … and as a result, oil field management tends to be corrupt (and poor). Mexico is a classic example. If Saudi Arabia had more wells, they could pump more oil. But that would cause the price to drop.

Fourth, perhaps (since you know more than I do) you could fill us in on how many refineries Saudi Arabia and Iran and Iraq have … after all, petroleum is not usable unless it has been intensively processed.

Fifth, anyone who has read the abiotic theories understands that there are some facts for which the conventional theories of petroleum origination cannot account.

See you later.

Al, you’re a crank. Your abiotic stuff is enough for me to hold that view.

Even if petroleum production stays flat there’s the little problem of exporting countries increasing usage of their own production.

What you end up with, is exported oil declining faster then regional declines.

Jeffrey Brown, Dallas geologists, analysis of Mexico’s declining production along with increasing homegrown usage estimates exports out of Mexico (to the US) could end in 5 years. Mexico is the US’s second largest supplier behind Canada. A similar thing is happening in Saudi Arabia.

Brown isn’t alone in this asessment: research.cibcwm.com/economic_public/download/occrept62.pdf

Oh, sorry, I forget you won’t open that link because it’s evil.

We use to get (name removed by moderator)orts from England’s North Sea. England is no longer an exporter but an (name removed by moderator)orter.

 

[Al_Masetti]

There is so much information available on the abiotic theory of petroleum origination.

Here is an interesting partial quote … the source is extensive … but interested folks can do additional research:

questionsquestions.net/docs04/peakoil1.html

Dave McGowan argues for the abiotic theory, which holds that oil is generated by natural processes in the earth’s magma, and he also argues pointedly that the “fossil” theory has never been proven. The following is long and detailed, but a must-read:

NEWSLETTER #52
March 13, 2004
Cop v CIA (Center for an Informed America)
davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr52.html

excerpt:

The modern Russian-Ukrainian theory of deep, abiotic petroleum origins is not controversial nor presently a matter of academic debate. The period of debate about this extensive body of knowledge has been over for approximately two decades (Simakov 1986). The modern theory is presently applied extensively throughout the former U.S.S.R. as the guiding perspective for petroleum exploration and development projects. There are presently more than 80 oil and gas fields in the Caspian district alone which were explored and developed by applying the perspective of the modern theory and which produce from the crystalline basement rock. (Krayushkin, Chebanenko et al. 1994) Similarly, such exploration in the western Siberia cratonic-rift sedimentary basin has developed 90 petroleum fields of which 80 produce either partly or entirely from the crystalline basement. The exploration and discoveries of the 11 major and 1 giant fields on the northern flank of the Dneiper-Donets basin have already been noted. There are presently deep drilling exploration projects under way in Azerbaijan, Tatarstan, and Asian Siberia directed to testing potential oil and gas reservoirs in the crystalline basement. (gasresources.net/index.htm)

It appears that, unbeknownst to Westerners, there have actually been, for quite some time now, two competing theories concerning the origins of petroleum. One theory claims that oil is an organic ‘fossil fuel’ deposited in finite quantities near the planet’s surface. The other theory claims that oil is continuously generated by natural processes in the Earth’s magma. One theory is backed by a massive body of research representing fifty years of intense scientific inquiry. The other theory is an unproven relic of the eighteenth century. One theory anticipates deep oil reserves, refillable oil fields, migratory oil systems, deep sources of generation, and the spontaneous venting of gas and oil. The other theory has a difficult time explaining any such documented phenomena.

So which theory have we in the West, in our infinite wisdom, chosen to embrace? Why, the fundamentally absurd ‘Fossil Fuel’ theory, of course – the same theory that the ‘Peak Oil’ doomsday warnings are based on.

I am sorry to report here, by the way, that in doing my homework, I never did come across any of that “hard science” documenting ‘Peak Oil’ that Mr. Strahl referred to. All the ‘Peak Oil’ literature that I found, on Ruppert’s site and elsewhere, took for granted that petroleum is a non-renewable ‘fossil fuel.’ That theory is never questioned, nor is any effort made to validate it. It is simply taken to be an established scientific fact, which it quite obviously is not.

 

[Al_Masetti]

On the conversion of American coal to petroleum products and related liquid fuels:

americanenergyindependence.com/cleanhydrocarbons.html

They have some calculations that the United States has the equivalent of 1.5 Trillion barrels of oil. About twice what Saudi Arabia has. Obviously, the Saudi’s don’t want us to develop those resources.

 

[Doug50]

First, posters are requested to be charitable.

Second, please quote me accurately. I never used the word “evil” … I merely said I had no confidence in the opinions of someone who is on the payroll of the Saudi “oil machine”. [aka Armaco]
See you later.

Charitable includes reading another’s link which became too obvious that you were not doing. And “evil” was something I dream up about what my links were after you dreamed up claims of me promoting abortion, euthanasia, and somethink else.

see you later

 

[Dee_Dee_King]

There is so much information available on the abiotic theory of petroleum origination.

Here is an interesting partial quote … the source is extensive … but interested folks can do additional research:

this has already been debunked. it’s as silly as that russian theory of geosynclines.

there is nothing mysterious about crystaline basement reserviors. they could be caused by faulting or having source directly rock above a fractured basement.

 

[Al_Masetti]

Charitable includes reading another’s link which became too obvious that you were not doing. And “evil” was something I dream up about what my links were after you dreamed up claims of me promoting abortion, euthanasia, and somethink else.

see you later

Charity means discussing the topic and not discussing the posters. It also mean not sinking to the level of name-calling.

Posters are free to click on links or not.

With respect to promoting abortion, euthanasia and birth control, there were posts suggesting that population could be reduced by “education”. Of course, later on, it was stated that “education” would, if done properly, lead to voluntary use of population reduction measures … the only “population reduction measures” that I can think of besides birth control, abortion, and euthanasia are celibacy … well, actually only one.

In addition, because of the timetable for the exhaustion of petroleum resources, the voluntary population reduction would have to take place very quickly. Which would be physically and statistically impossible without involuntary birth control, abortion and euthanasia.

So, if I have misstated or misunderstood what was meant by voluntary population reduction … perhaps someone would be kind and charitable by providing very specific examples of what was meant by “education” and how education would reduce the population without resorting to birth control, abortion and euthanasia.

So, in this particular debate case, it would be an act of charity to provide a clear and detailed explanation.

 

[Al_Masetti]

this has already been debunked. it’s as silly as that russian theory of geosynclines.

there is nothing mysterious about crystaline basement reserviors. they could be caused by faulting or having source directly rock above a fractured basement.

We do know that there are some unexplained sources of petroleum.

We also know that for a very long time, Malthusian economics has been predicting the end of natural resources reserves. And Malthusian economic predictions have been proven and demonstrated to be wrong. Over and over.

 

[Al_Masetti]

Is this real or not real?

recent applications of the modern theory of abiogenic hydrocarbon
origins: drilling & Development of oil & gas fields in the
Dnieper-Donetsk basin

V. A. Krayushkin, T. I. Tchebanenko, V. P. Klochko, Ye. S. Dvoryanin (all at: Institute of Geological Sciences, Academy of Sciences of Ukraine, Kiev); J. F. Kenney (Institute of Earth Physics, Russian Academy of Sciences, Moscow, C.I.S. & Gas Resources Corporation, Houston, TX 77098, U.S.A)

Abstract:

Here are reported certain specific observations of properties of the Earth’s crust which were conducted by drilling and which are not only of profound scientific significance but also of direct economic value to the nation which supported the project. The scientific results reported here fall into two categories: (1), the discoveries of large deposits of commercially producible petroleum in geological environments which would be considered extraordinary (at least in the U.S.A.); and (2), the analyses of the chemical, bacteriology and paleontology investigations of that oil for determination of its origin.
Of greater scientific importance than the content of the specific observations or laboratory tests is the context of the body of scientific knowledge through the perspective of which this extensive project was initiated and carried out. This project has been carried out from its inception in explicit recognition of the modern Russian theory of deep, abiotic hydrocarbon origins. Although the modern Russian theory of abiogenic hydrocarbon origins is mostly unknown in the U.S.A., there is not space in this short article to describe it. Thus it must suffice to state simply that the modern theory of hydrocarbon origins recognizes that petroleum is a primordial material erupted from great depth.

      Here is described a recent exploration project on the flanks of the Dnieper-Donets Basin which has been conducted in explicit recognition of the modern theory. This specific project has been chosen from many others because it is a "pure" modern project:  the geological area explored is one which had been extensively studied in the past and had been previously condemned (according to the perspective of an hypothesis of a biological origin for petroleum) as possessing no potential for petroleum production;  the exploration techniques applied, from the initial work-up, through the well planning, to the production tests have been carried out in ways peculiar to such for abiogenic hydrocarbons in crystalline environments;  and the scientific tests upon the petroleum produced were specifically designed to test the assumption that the oil and gas originated at great depth in the Earth. 


      The Dnieper-Donets Basin runs in a NW-SE direction between 30.6°E-40.5°E; its northern and southern borders are traced from 50.0°N-51.8°N and 47.8°N-50.0°N, respectively.  For the first 45 year period of the geological study  of the Northern Monoclinal Flank of the Dnieper-Donets Basin, its sedimentary, metamorphic, and igneous rock had been condemned as possessing no potential for petroleum production for reasons of the complete absence of any "source rock" (so-called) and the presence of active, strongly-circulating artesian waters.  Recently the area was reexamined according to the perspective of the modern theory of deep, abiotic hydrocarbon origins.

      Because the modern theory of hydrocarbon origins recognizes hydrocarbons as primordial material erupted from great depth, the exploration process began with a detailed analysis of the tectonic history and geological structure of the crystalline basement of the Northern Monoclinal Flank of the Dnieper-Donets Basin.  The exploration and drilling project which followed resulted in the discovery and development of 12 fields with oil reserves equal to 219 million metric tons of oil equivalent, the major part of which is produced from the Precambrian crystalline basement.  These petroleum fields have been discovered in a narrow strip approximately 30-35 km wide and 400 km long near the Northern Marginal Deep Fault where the oil and gas bearing rocks are Middle and Lower Carboniferous period sandstones and Precambrian granites, amphibolites, and schists of the crystalline basement complex.  This exploration project generated also the discovery of a new gas producing area within a region 30 km wide and 100 km long near Khark for which the producible gas in place has been calculated to be 100 billion cubic meters.

      Of a total number of 61 wells drilled, 37 produce commercial quantities of oil or gas, an exploration success rate of 55%.  The initial flows from the productive wells varied between 40-350 metric tons per day of oil and 100,000-1,600,000 cubic meters of gas per day.  The specific gravity of the oil from the upper sedimentary levels ranges between 25°-48°API, that from the Precambrian crystalline basement rock between 28°-48°API.  The sulfur content of the oil is uniformly less than 0.3%.  The gas from the Precambrian crystalline basement contains also condensates.  The specific formations and depths from which petroleum has been discovered and is now being produced are as follow:

 

[Al_Masetti]

1.) Production from the upper sedimentary levels: The oil and gas bearing reservoir rocks in the upper sedimentary levels are Middle and Lower Carboniferous period sandstones. The oil wells which produce from the Carboniferous period sandstones have reservoir depths at the following levels: 3133-3172 m; 3200-3212 m; 3530-3543 m; and 3666-3688 m. The gas wells which produce from the Carboniferous period sandstones have reservoir depths: 1738-1754 m; 1802-1835 m; 2034-2063 m; 2813-2854 m; 2905-2994 m; 2910-2943 m; 2987-3526 m; 2990-3176 m; 3080-3339 m; 3089-3135 m; 3425-3603 m; 3439-3442 m; 3450-3469 m; 3472-3500 m; 3506-3528 m; 3530-3543 m; 3638-3724 m; 3824-3845 m; 3874-3933 m; 3962-4002 m; 4007-4100 m; 4423-4463 m; and 4500-4505 m.

2.) Production from the Precambrian crystalline basement: In addition to these reservoirs in the sedimentary rock, above, the exploration drilling has discovered five reservoirs in the Precambrian crystalline basement rock complex at depths ranging from several meters to 200 meters below the top of the crystalline basement. From such traditionally unusual reservoir rock, oil and gas wells produce from the following levels: 3135-3151 m; 3164-3172 m; 3167-3173 m; 3192-3196 m; 3200-3280 m; 3213-3235 m; 3240-3260 m; 3244-3272 m, 3432-3498 m; 3468-3480 m; 3501-3520 m; 3516-3529 m; 3521-3531 m; 3547-3550 m; 3552-3570 m; 3590-3612 m; 3610-3625 m; 3618-3687 m; 3636-3735 m; 3685-3695 m; 3735-3800 m; and 4020-4041 m.

      The trapping strata for the reservoirs in the Carboniferous period sandstones are shallower shale formations, as is typical for sedimentary reservoirs.  The trapping strata for the reservoirs in the Precambrian crystalline basement are impervious, non-fractured, essentially horizontal zones of crystalline rock which alternate with the fractured, uncompacted, bed-like zones of granite and amphibolite.


      Following the discovery of these petroleum reservoirs, a series of quite different scientific investigations have been carried out to test the initial assumptions that the oil and gas have entered the reservoir formations from great depth.  Those laboratory analyses are described here briefly.

1.) Analysis and correlations of trace element abundances in oil: The oil produced from all reservoirs and depths have been analyzed for correlations of their trace metallic elements. For example the ratios of Ni/V and of either Methane or Nitrogen have been measured. The abundances of the trace metals show a clear correlation and have thereby established that the oil at all levels share a common, deep source, characterized by diffusive separation, regardless of the age, type or circumstance of the particular reservoir rocks.

2.) Paleontology analyses of the oil, - and its significance: The Paleontology analyses of the oil in the shallower Permian and Upper and Lower Carboniferous sandstone formations have demonstrated the presence of spore-pollen and other microphytofossils of the Devonian and Proterozoic ages, establishing thereby upward migration from the deeper formations, which migration is not necessarily correlated to the age of either. The paleontology analyses of the oil from these wells has been performed by laboratories in Lvov, Minsk and Moscow. The proterozoic microphytofossils examined included the following: Protoleiospheridium conglutinatum Tim., Zonoleiospheridium larum Med., Leiominuscula rugosa Naum., Margominuscula rugosa Medw., Protoarchaeosacculina stava. Naum., Leiopsophosphaera giganteus Schep., Asperatopsophosphaera magna Schep., Strictosphaeridium implexum Tim., Gloecapsomorpha hebeja Tim., Turuchanica alara Rud., Pulvinomorpha angulata Tim. The observations from all laboratories have been that the proportion of proterozoic microphytofossils is usually equal to 70%-75% of the total spore pollen abundance in oil from every formation and reservoir, irrespective of the reservoir rock, its depth or its age.

3.) Bacteriological analysis of the oil and the examination for so-called “biological marker” molecules: The oil produced from the reservoirs in the crystalline basement rock of the Dnieper-Donets Basin has been examined particularly closely for the presence of either porphyrin molecules or “biological marker” molecules, the presence of which used to be misconstrued as “evidence” of a supposed biological origin for petroleum. None of the oil contains any such molecules, even at the ppm level. There is also research presently under progress which has established the presence of deep, anaerobic, hydrocarbon metabolizing microbes in the oil from the wells in the uppermost petroliferous zones of the crystalline basement rock in the Dnieper-Donets Basin.

4.) Measurement of elevated abundances of helium: The petroleum from all producing reservoirs manifest elevated abundance of helium. The natural gas and oil from, for example, the Yulyovskoye field contain not less than 180,000,000 m3 of helium. Helium is of deep origin and can be transported significant distances in the Earth’s crust only by entrainment in another carrier fluid, typically hydrocarbons or hydrocarbons and carbon dioxide or nitrogen together, by which process it becomes concentrated in the carrier fluid.

 

[Al_Masetti]

Link: gasresources.net/DDBfields.htm

And the conclusion:

      These results, taken either individually or together, confirm the scientific conclusions that the oil and natural gas found both in the Precambrian crystalline basement and the sedimentary cover of the Northern Monoclinal Flank of the Dnieper-Donets Basin are of deep, and abiotic, origin.

      For this work, the present authors responsible for the discovery of these 12 fields were awarded the State Prize of Ukraine in the field of Science and Technology in 1993.

      Furthermore, the exploration drilling is still in progress and continues to yield success.  Today (15 February 1994), there are 20 commercial new oil and gas fields under development.  One of these new fields is the Khukhrya field with reserves of 18 million metric tons of oil.  Another is the Yulyovskoye oil and gas field for which the presently discovered petroleum reserves have been calculated to be 27 million tons of oil equivalent.

      published in:  Krayushkin, V. A., T. I. Tchebanenko, V. P. Klochko, Ye. S. Dvoryanin, J. F. Kenney, (1994). Recent applications of the modern theory of abiogenic hydrocarbon origins:  Drilling and development of oil & gas fields in the Dneiper-Donets Basin. VIIth International Symposium on the Observation of the Continental Crust through Drilling, Santa Fe, NM, DOSECC.

 

[Al_Masetti]

There are two other, peripheral issues regarding / challenging the whole notion of imminent peak oil:

1. The purchase by MidEastern countries of large numbers of A380 Super Jumbo Airbuses.

Here’s the order book so far:

15 customers, including: Singapore Airlines (launch customer with an order for 19 aircraft and five options), Lufthansa (15), Emirates (47), Air France (12), Qantas (20), Malaysia Airlines (six), Virgin Atlantic (six) International Lease Finance (ten), Kingfisher Airlines (five), Qatar Airways (five), Korean Air (five), Penerbangan Malaysia Berhad (MAS) (six), Thai Airways (six), Etihad Airways (four), China Southern Airlines (five) have announced firm orders for 165 A380 airliners. [Kingfisher Airlines is based in India, in case folks are not familiar with that name.]

In June 2007, Air France ordered an additional two, Emirates an additional eight and Qatar Airways an additional three aircraft.

So it looks like 60 of the A380’s are headed for oil-producing countries, plus probably some of the ILF aircraft.

If the oil producing states of Emirates and Qatar were really worried about oil running out in a few years, why would they purchase so many of the biggest airplane in the world? They can’t all be to accommodate the annual Haj.

In addition, Boeing has sold a lot of the new 787’s to the purchasers in the region, I need to look the Boeing order book. *

So the oil producing countries have a LOT of faith in the future availability of petroleum-based jet fuel.

1. In researching the abiotic theory, there is a consistent linkage between the peak oil proponents and their desire to get away from oil because of their BELIEF that the burning of oil causes global warming.

And we know that MAN-MADE global warming is a hoax.

Which has been the subject of many other threads on CAF. But we can go through that again.*

 

[Al_Masetti]

There are two other, peripheral issues regarding / challenging the whole notion of imminent peak oil:

1. The purchase by MidEastern countries of large numbers of A380 Super Jumbo Airbuses.

Here’s the order book so far:

15 customers, including: Singapore Airlines (launch customer with an order for 19 aircraft and five options), Lufthansa (15), Emirates (47), Air France (12), Qantas (20), Malaysia Airlines (six), Virgin Atlantic (six) International Lease Finance (ten), Kingfisher Airlines (five), Qatar Airways (five), Korean Air (five), Penerbangan Malaysia Berhad (MAS) (six), Thai Airways (six), Etihad Airways (four), China Southern Airlines (five) have announced firm orders for 165 A380 airliners. [Kingfisher Airlines is based in India, in case folks are not familiar with that name.]

In June 2007, Air France ordered an additional two, Emirates an additional eight and Qatar Airways an additional three aircraft.

So it looks like 60 of the A380’s are headed for oil-producing countries, plus probably some of the ILF aircraft.

If the oil producing states of Emirates and Qatar were really worried about oil running out in a few years, why would they purchase so many of the biggest airplane in the world? They can’t all be to accommodate the annual Haj.

In addition, Boeing has sold a lot of the new 787’s to the purchasers in the region, I need to look the Boeing order book. *

Saudi Arabian airlines has apparently not purchased any A380’s or 787’s; however, they did recently make a large buy of the smaller A320s and apparently one or more of the new stretched 747-8 aircraft as executive jets.

So the oil producing countries have a LOT of faith in the future availability of petroleum-based jet fuel.

1. In researching the abiotic theory, there is a consistent linkage between the peak oil proponents and their desire to get away from oil because of their BELIEF that the burning of oil causes global warming.

And we know that MAN-MADE global warming is a hoax.

Which has been the subject of many other threads on CAF. But we can go through that again.*

 

[Al_Masetti]

At the very instant I edited my last post, I got timed out.

So, here is the edit:

Saudi Arabian airlines has apparently not purchased any A380’s or 787’s; however, they did recently make a large buy of the smaller A320s and apparently one or more of the new stretched 747-8 aircraft as executive jets.

 

[drpmjhess]

this has already been debunked. it’s as silly as that russian theory of geosynclines.

Dee Dee King, people like Al have to believe in the abiotic origin of oil, liked my little ones used to believe that the supermarket always carried milk. It was just impossible that the market might run out of milk! Inconceivable!

 

[Doug50]

Dee Dee King, people like Al have to believe in the abiotic origin of oil, liked my little ones used to believe that the supermarket always carried milk. It was just impossible that the market might run out of milk! Inconceivable!

I think you’re correct about that, hess. I like to believe that adults are by and large rational and capable of reasoning with when you give them the facts and data. The thought alone of the gas pumps not having gas to fuel the car whenever you need to anytime you need to for getting to work, or even woundering if going on vacation could leave you stranded for day(s) isn’t something a lot of people want to consider. Add to that the thought of not having the food stocks in the supermarkets that you’re use to.

I’m worried the puplic will not wake up to this until there’s a stimulas such as gas shortages here in the first world to get them to take notice.