Pictures of the Tridentine Latin Mass/Churches

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ByzCath:
Actually I do not think anyone traces the Tridentine Mass to the beginning, for one thing Latin was not in use in the beginning. The earliest prayers in a Liturgy are in the Divine Liturgy of St John Chrysostom (the Eucharistic Liturgy in use by the Byzantine rite Churches).
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The Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom is, according to Fr. Fortescue, of late derivation when compared to the Roman Rite and even to other Eastern Rites, such as that of St. James or of St. Mark. It is certainly not as old as the Liturgy of St. Basil, which is still in use in the Eastern Churches on a few days a year.
What happened with Quo Primum was that Pope St Pius V forced the Liturgy of Rome, the Tridentine Mass, on all of the Latin Church unless the rites could be proved to be of an older date. This is why many religious orders kept their own rites, such as the Franscians and the Carmelites just to name two.
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As a matter of fact, it is the Franciscans who were largely responsible for the spread of the Roman Rite.
The Tridentine Mass of the time, was known as the Novus Ordo, as it was the New Order of its day. It has since been modified and changed. I am pretty sure that the prayers at the foot of the altar, the Last Gospel, and the pray to St Michael the Archangel were additions to it. So to say that the 1962 Missal is the same one that Pope St Pius V codified is an untruth.
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Who called it the “Novus Ordo”? Anyone?

St. Pius V didn’t invent anything, he only codified what was already there, including the Prayers at the Foot of the Altar and the Last Gospel. The Prayer to St. Michael the Archangel was added by Leo XIII, but strictly speaking it’s not really part of the Mass. It was only said after Low Masses.

Yes, of course the traditional Mass was changed, but virtually all of the changes (up until the Pius XII changes to the Holy Week) were very small. Some of the changes made by Popes following St. Pius V were to correct typesetter errors in printing the Missal (some typesetters were substituting verses from the Vulgate for the Scriptural chants in the Missal, which came from the Old Itala version).
 
ByzCath said:
Actually I do not think anyone traces the Tridentine Mass to the beginning, for one thing Latin was not in use in the beginning. The earliest prayers in a Liturgy are in the Divine Liturgy of St John Chrysostom (the Eucharistic Liturgy in use by the Byzantine rite Churches).

What happened with Quo Primum was that Pope St Pius V forced the Liturgy of Rome, the Tridentine Mass, on all of the Latin Church unless the rites could be proved to be of an older date. This is why many religious orders kept their own rites, such as the Franscians and the Carmelites just to name two.

The Tridentine Mass of the time, was known as the Novus Ordo, as it was the New Order of its day. It has since been modified and changed. I am pretty sure that the prayers at the foot of the altar, the Last Gospel, and the pray to St Michael the Archangel were additions to it. So to say that the 1962 Missal is the same one that Pope St Pius V codified is an untruth.
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The Divine Liturgy of St. Basil was used before the one of St. John Chrysostom. Also the Roman Tridentine Mass is based off of the Divine Liturgy of St. Peter. It is rarely used in the Eastern Catholic churches to my understanding. The Latin Rite goes back to the earliest days of Christianity, as does the Byzantine, coptic, and all those Rites that use variations of the Divine Liturgy of St. James(Maronites, etc).Chrysostom, like Pius V, codified the Byzantine Liturgy(to my understanding). While Paul VI created a brand new rite that reminds you of a Methodist or Lutheran service. There were other Rites in the west and still are. The Mozarabic Rite is used on a limited basis in Spain and Portugal, and some people want a return of the Gallic Rite. Which I think is fine, the more Ancient Liturgies the better in my opinion. The older Rites show much more respect to our Creator. Having the Tabernacle on the Altar infront of all the people surely is better then sticking him in a small room off to the side of the building? Also, Priests facing our Lord rather then the people does seem more fitting, but if you want to worship like that go ahead, who am I to tell you what to do at Mass sunday.

A little off topic , but could someone inform me on where to find a TLM near me lol. I live in Roanoke Va( Western portion of Virginia, basically turn on a radio station and its going to be country music kind of place lol). I wish I had my pictures of my Church to show you guys. It was built in 1890. It still has the real Altar in the back with a Tabernacle on it and such. Very beautiful. Lovely stained glass windows and we even have four statues ! lol The Theotokos and child, Joseph, St. Andrew (church’s Patron) and our Lord of coarse above the Altar(if you want to count a huge crucifix on the wall as a statue)
Anyways. If anyone finds fault in my bit about Eastern Liturgy then please point it out to me as I am only a Roman Catholic, though I do spend a lot of my time reading on the Eastern churches, I still could be wrong on something lol, only human after all.
-Clark
 
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Podo2004:
You really don’t know a thing do you? CHRIST IS EVERYWHERE!!! NOT JUST IN THE TABERNACLE! So facing the people means he’s giving us the word and Jesus practically! There is no need to face the tabernacle. Have you guys ever thought that God wanted Vatican II instead of leaning to your preferences? I mean if he opposed it, then it wouldn’t be there now would it. And by proclaiming the word (which if you look in the bible, his apostles never had their backs talking to the people) Jesus becomes much more alive in the mass compared to the old mass. And it’s not a chat session because people should listen to the word(means be quiet in prayer and refection unless required to respond to the priest), , sing when needed and prepare themselves for recieving Jesus at the eucharist. Protestants chat as you say, we don’t(even in the Novus ordo, the only ones that talk are the ones who don’t listen or aren’t educated)
Podo
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From 1309 until 1377 or more accurately until 1423, the Roman Church suffered under the babylonian captivity and the Great Western Schism. This time in the church was marked by political infighting, intrigues and other scandalous events. The papacy moved from Rome to Avignon, France and back again. Two Popes Urban VI and Clement VII were elected by the same cardinals and held office at the same time, with opposing views and situated in different locations.

The situation reached a head at the council of Pisa in 1409 in which, the Cardinals said neither Pope was worthy and elected yet another Pope, Alexander V. Urban and Clement refused to step down, and now there were three validly elected Popes. Alexander died shortly thereafter and John XXIII was elected. Yes John XXIII. He was an Avignon Pope… At the council of Constance in 1414, his resignation was demanded, he fled, was captured and resigned. Gregory XII the Roman Pope also resigned and the cardinals elected Martin V. Benedict XIII, the remaining Avignon Pope never gave up his claim to the papal throne and died in 1423, with no one being elected to take his place.

Martin V convened the Council of Basil and died shortly thereafter replaced by Eugene IV, who attempted to disband the council. The council refused to adjourn, and with the help of the Patriarch of Constantinople Eugene transferred the Council to Ferrar. Some refused to go, others went in the hope of re-unification with the east. So now, you had the situation of the council, originally convened to heal the schism in the Papacy, was now divided, having two councils and one pope… The Council at Ferrar, moved to Florence and gained recognition when the Patriarch of Constantinople accepted its plan for re-unification.

The remaining council at Basil deposed Eugene and named yet another Pope Felix V. Now there were two councils and two popes. Eventually Basil adjourned and disbanded in lausanne France . Felix V gave up his claim to the papacy in 1449.

From start to finish approximately 140 -150 years had passed.

From your statement and your logic these events never could have happened if God had not wanted it that way. I somehow doubt these incidents were as God really wanted them to be.

I think God does not interfere too much in what happens in the Church. He lets us grow, make mistakes, fall down a few times learn a little and then maybe He nudges things from time to time.

Maybe.

But then again maybe He just lets us flounder along in our arrogance and ignorance until we ask Him for guidance. Who knows? But please don’t think that everything that happens in the Church happens because God wanted it that way.
 
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AndrewMcNabb:
The Divine Liturgy of St. Basil was used before the one of St. John Chrysostom.
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Can you please give a reference to this bit of information?

Just to clarify. The Divine Liturgy of St Basil the Great is identical to the Divine Liturgy of St John Chrysostom except for the private prayers of the priest.
 
Dear Pandora,
Consider contacting the Institute of Christ the King Soverng Priest, Hdqt. in Chicago… Check Google for Info. This Order staffs St. Francis DeSales Oratory in St. Louis, MO, with the full support of ArchBishop Burke. We have daily and Sunday Masses in Latin, three Latin choirs, and so much more. Our congregation has grown by leaps & bounds since we were given this church to use, which was in need of many repairs. Parishioners come from many miles around . We are soooo blessed. When in St. Louis, come to St. Francis DeSales and see this beautiful Cathedral and the beauty and reverence of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, the pomp and ceremony of all major and minor feast days, I feel like I died and went to heaven.
 
I came across an interesting quote from Christopher Dawson in his book "Religion and the Rise of Western Culture (1950…that is pre VII) which is relevant:
For the Roman rite, as known to the Moiddle Ages, was, in fact, the officially authorized rite of the Carolingian Empire and represents the fusion of Roman and Gallican elements resulting from the revision of the liturgical books carried out by Alcuin and his fellow workers.
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Furthermore, after reading another pre-VII book, Theodor Klauser’s Short History of the Western Liturgy, I am firmly of the opinion that not only should the Tridentine Mass has been revised, but that it was necessary for it to be revised. Furthermore, the monolithic status of the Tridentine Mass, with many innovations throughout the centuries, represented a theology much different and forign to the spirit of the early liturgy.

The most important work on liturgy remains Josef Jungmann’s Mass of the Roman Rite.
 
Please stop all the arguing about whether the Tridentine latin mass should exist or have been reformed ETC and accept the fact that it is a reality which will never “go away” and which many Catholics (including myself) are spiritually uplifted into a different realm by and … please
BRING ON MORE OF THE BEAUTIFUL AND INSPIRING PHOTOS OF THE TRADITIONAL LATIN MASS
  • the mass of all ages!!
 
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EtienneGilson:
I came across an interesting quote from Christopher Dawson in his book "Religion and the Rise of Western Culture (1950…that is pre VII) which is relevant:

Furthermore, after reading another pre-VII book, Theodor Klauser’s Short History of the Western Liturgy, I am firmly of the opinion that not only should the Tridentine Mass has been revised, but that it was necessary for it to be revised. Furthermore, the monolithic status of the Tridentine Mass, with many innovations throughout the centuries, represented a theology much different and forign to the spirit of the early liturgy.

The most important work on liturgy remains Josef Jungmann’s Mass of the Roman Rite.
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Curious, why was it necessary that it be revised? What were these differences in theology that you allude to?
 
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tradconvert:
Please stop all the arguing about whether the Tridentine latin mass should exist or have been reformed ETC and accept the fact that it is a reality which will never “go away” and which many Catholics (including myself) are spiritually uplifted into a different realm by and … please
BRING ON MORE OF THE BEAUTIFUL AND INSPIRING PHOTOS OF THE TRADITIONAL LATIN MASS
  • the mass of all ages!!
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Agreed! 👍
 
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tradconvert:
  • the mass of all ages!!
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Not!

At least the form of it is not.

The Eucharist is the Eucharist no matter what form the surrounding ritual is as long as it is according to what the Church rules it to be.
 
**The topic of this thread is: Pictures of the Tridentine Latin Mass/Churches.

Those who wish to discuss other matters are invited to initiate or join an ongoing thread in the approrpriate forum section. **

Your cooperation in staying on topic is appreciated.
 
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ByzCath:
Actually I do not think anyone traces the Tridentine Mass to the beginning, for one thing Latin was not in use in the beginning. The earliest prayers in a Liturgy are in the Divine Liturgy of St John Chrysostom (the Eucharistic Liturgy in use by the Byzantine rite Churches).

What happened with Quo Primum was that Pope St Pius V forced the Liturgy of Rome, the Tridentine Mass, on all of the Latin Church unless the rites could be proved to be of an older date. This is why many religious orders kept their own rites, such as the Franscians and the Carmelites just to name two.

The Tridentine Mass of the time, was known as the Novus Ordo, as it was the New Order of its day. It has since been modified and changed. I am pretty sure that the prayers at the foot of the altar, the Last Gospel, and the pray to St Michael the Archangel were additions to it. So to say that the 1962 Missal is the same one that Pope St Pius V codified is an untruth.
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Actually, the tridentine mass is simply a newer version of the ancient Roman rite of mass, so it can be traced to apostolic times in ROME, but not in the east.
 
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