Pipe organ held in high esteem--oh, really?!

[ConstantineTG]

The only instrument required for Mass is the human voice. By the words of the holy consecration, all music fades away and only the melody of the angels remains. Gregorian chant hardly needs an organ to lead it…

AMEN!

 

[Cat]

It totally spaced my mind, but I should have posted about it when it was still open for registration! I think many people would like to at least look into going to something like this. I couldn’t go, but I would love to!

Perhaps CAF could do a sticky on seminar opportunities. Perhaps they would have to vet them first, but surely that would be feasible?

It would be useful. So often I don’t find out about things until after the fact.

 

[Cat]

I agree with you. A lot of the organists I know don’t belong at least in my area’s chapter mainly because they don’t have much respect for the AGO and also because they do enjoy their freedom. Although, I’ve found with the few I know who have been screwed out of positions, have joined as a last resort. It is a shame. They are the ones who worked as organists/music directors full time and depended on the income for their livelihood.

When you look at the various chapters on each of their websites, the blacklists are so few and far between that you can easily find out which church has the blacklist and then do as much or as little research on the situation (the former journalist in me. haha!)

I personally believe that part of the reason the complaint was lodged was to protect whatever hold over his former job he has or thinks he has. As I said, most organists and other musicians, gay or not, devout or not, know the beliefs of the church/denomination they work for and also know the ramifications should they violate the policies. Knowing enough organists in my area, I can pretty much guarantee that if no complaint was made and no “blacklist” was enacted, those same organists who are behind this guy would be the first people sending their resumes to the church for his job. Whether or not one believes he was in the wrong, he was smart and obviously knew what he was doing based on his connections with other organists. (I don’t think I need to expound on that subject much as I think most of us have come across that kind.) You make a church suffer enough without anyone to play their organ, you may be able to get them to fold and give you back “your” job and none of the “wolves” were able to take it. At least I think that is part of the reason.

I think it’s great that Cat is taking the initiative and is willing to learn how to play the organ. However short or long it takes for her to learn it, I think she has the integrity and respect for the music and especially the mass to be sure she does it right. My only advice to you, Cat, is to try to be as optimistic and positive as possible and to focus on the beauty and the prayer within that music and the instrument itself. Don’t allow yourself to look at the negative especially in the beginning. I know it can be easy to fall into naysaying, especially if you (“you” in general) are prone to see the negative and a little too much of what you view as the reality or practicality. The most successful people are those who do see the reality, but don’t let it get them down and feel negative. Although I’m not an organist and have never tried learning it, I know how difficult and daunting something can seem when you are first learning to master an instrument. In my case, the voice. (It’s funny how so many instrumentalists I know think that mastering the voice is one of the hardest instruments to be very good at… one of my organists friends who is literally a genius on the organ and piano thinks that and has taken years of voice - who is a very good classical singer as well.) I wish you the best in your endeavors.

Thank you for the advice. Several of the speakers at this week-long conference have said essentially the same thing.

I was very happy that my private lesson teacher (assigned to me this week) told me that I should continue to take lessons because I seem to be someone who would be a good organist. I have a “soft touch” on the piano that seems to translate well to organ.

But those pedals! During the hymn-playing session today, I and another pianist sat close enough to watch the professor play the demos. Both of us decided that we have “pedal envy.”

I think that playing organ pedals is good physical therapy for feet!

 

[archangel04]

Cat,

You seem so much against chant, polyphony, and the pipe organ. These constitute a large majority of the church’s treasury of sacred music. Why do you dislike and eschew them so strongly?

When you sing the Mass (as opposed to singing at Mass, or not singing at all), there is no organ required. Chant, the normative music for the liturgy, needs no accompaniment. I attend Mass weekly at a parish that is embracing the churches wishes for sacred music, and the retention of latin:

• Chant (Both propers and ordinary, in latin, at every parish Mass, besides some weddings and funerals)
• Polyphony and sacred choral music
• Organ
• Hymns (in that order of preference)

The Mass is sung for all Sunday Masses, as well as many week day Masses. Yes, an OF Missa Cantata on a weekday! It’s great. Yes, it took a little getting used to that we don’t sing as much, but the chant is so beautiful, I’d never regret it.

So, long story short, if you don’t have a pipe organ, try singing the Mass. It’s really not that hard.

Why are you so strongly against what the church wants for Music?

Agreed I notice this as well. I feel that if Churches would open up and let the young ones into music programs we would have many sign up to learn how to play the organ.

 

[TheMc]

Perhaps CAF could do a sticky on seminar opportunities. Perhaps they would have to vet them first, but surely that would be feasible?

It would be useful. So often I don’t find out about things until after the fact.

Indeed, especially for the Liturgy and Sacraments forum.

 

[archangel04]

“I’m doing a weeklong workshop to learn how to play the pipe organ!”
–Cat

"Why do you hate the pipe organ so much!? Why do you hate the Church?!
–commenters

Who wommented that Cat hated the Church? Did I miss this comment or did you just make it up? I must be going blind.

 

[Cat]

Your last couple posts have been more charitable to traditional music. Keep it up and you may have some folks praising you instead of fighting. Thanks for trying to learn the pipe organ since we obviously need more folks. Next year go to a Chant workshop so you can join us in that love also.

I have never been hostile to traditional music.

Rather, I am skeptical that it will ever gain a foothold, let alone a prominent place, in Catholic churches. If I’m wrong, that’s OK.

I prefer to have a realistic outlook about not only music, but about all aspects of life, and I do not have any patience with dreams and hopes and wishes. To me, this is a waste of time and energy.

I believe in putting money where the mouth is, and I believe in taking action to make “dreams” come true.

I want realistic objectives, with a definite “action plan” for achieving those objectives. I want steps that can be written down, goals that can be broken down into specfic actionable steps.

To me, just saying, “Gregorian chant is the preferred music in Mass, so we should have that in our parishes” is a worthless thing to say UNLESS there is an action plan for actually getting Gregorian chant in the parishes.

Gregorian chant, polyphony, pipe organ music, etc. doesn’t just spontaneously generate. There has to be a plan, an action plan, for getting from Point A (all contemporary music with praise band and piano) to Point B (a chanted Mass with no instruments, or only pipe organ).

I’m asking people, “What is that action plan?”

And all too often, instead of an action plan, I get, “You’re hostile! You’re still thinking like a Protestant! You’re dissing the Pope!”

In other words, because I don’t jump on your bandwagon, I’m your enemy.

For years and years in the evangelical Protestant world, I watched bandwagon after bandwagon rolling by. I hope you’ll forgive me for being a skeptic. It’s only because I’ve seen too many bandwagons turn out to be travelling medicine shows.

I know that some of you are involved in parishes that are making changes in your Mass music, and proving that it’s not just another bandwagon.

So rather than telling ME that MY PARISH needs to make changes, I think it would be more useful for you to tell me exactly HOW your parish is making those changes. What are the specific actions that you specifically are taking, and that others in your parish are taking?

And please don’t include “muttering under my breath while I sit in my pew and listen to the guitars” as one of your “action plans.” This isn’t useful.

This week, being part of this pipe organ conference/workshops is exactly the kind of thing that I’m talking about. It’s action!

Rather than just talking about the pipe organ, I took steps to actually learn more about the pipe organ and get an opportunity to actually sit down, play it with the help of a teacher, and of course, listen to a lot of beautiful concerts. As a result of this week, I feel that I now have a realistic outlook and can make an intelligent decision as to whether I should attempt to take lessons with the clear objective of learning to play well enough to play for a Mass.

I had other ulterior motives for attending the sessions this week, having to do with getting the blacklisting lifted from our parish. No matter how gloomy and pessimistic you think I am, I assure you that I am actually understating the gravity of the situation at our parish. As long as we are on a blacklist, we won’t be able to attract knowledgeable musicians to our parish, and we need those musicians and their practical knowledge. This isn’t gloomy Cat. This is hard reality.

And by the way, I don’t have to LIKE Gregorian chant to submit to the wishes of the Church that it have the place of pride in the Mass. The documents do not say, “We must like Gregorian chant”. I do wish that you would allow me the freedom to have my personal preferences and express them. After all, plenty of YOU freely express your personal opinions about the Mass music that you hate.

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

Thank you for the advice. Several of the speakers at this week-long conference have said essentially the same thing.

I was very happy that my private lesson teacher (assigned to me this week) told me that I should continue to take lessons because I seem to be someone who would be a good organist. I have a “soft touch” on the piano that seems to translate well to organ.

But those pedals! During the hymn-playing session today, I and another pianist sat close enough to watch the professor play the demos. Both of us decided that we have “pedal envy.”

I think that playing organ pedals is good physical therapy for feet!

The pedals are the fun part! Okay, so all of it is fun, but the pedals make the organ, so to speak. To me it’s the highlighting part of it, although I love the entire organ. And you’re right about good therapy, so long as you do it right and use the proper shoes. Improper technique and equipment (shoes) can lead to injuries. I can believe it as once I switched to proper organ shoes, I could tell there was a lot less pressure on my feet and much less tendency for cramping (and getting a cramp in the middle of one of Bach’s fugues is not fun!).

Be envious! And then use that as motivation to be good at it yourself. Some people have equated playing the pedals to dancing (some people even use dancing shoes!), and you know what? It is like that. Footwork, coordination, and mindless repetition of pedal drills and you’ll start to pick it up. I wouldn’t even worry about putting the hands with the pedals for awhile. Just do the pedals. Watch your feet while you practice them until you can get a feel for the intervals, then try exercises without watching. You’ll find that it becomes like playing a keyboard. You just KNOW where the pedals are without having to look at them, but it DOES take time.

 

[Sarabande]

Thank you for the advice. Several of the speakers at this week-long conference have said essentially the same thing.

You’re welcome!

I was very happy that my private lesson teacher (assigned to me this week) told me that I should continue to take lessons because I seem to be someone who would be a good organist. I have a “soft touch” on the piano that seems to translate well to organ.

That is wonderfully encouraging!!! Keep that with you because it will help you go forward. I always love it when a good pianist can also play the organ well because I think they can bring a sensitivity and warmth that is sometimes lacking with those who only play organ. Not always the case with organists, so I don’t want anyone thinking that I’m putting them down, but just something I’ve personally experienced. So, anyway, I hope you continue to pursue it.

But those pedals! During the hymn-playing session today, I and another pianist sat close enough to watch the professor play the demos. Both of us decided that we have “pedal envy.”

I think that playing organ pedals is good physical therapy for feet!

I’m always utterly amazed at how organists can play with their hands and their feet AND read three lines of music. Some will even sing in addition. So much multi-tasking. It’s incredible.

Side note… my husband and I like to “church hop” when we visit different areas or countries. We’ve been known to attend mass three or four times on a Sunday. We love church architecture and sacred music. Once, when we were in Paris, we had attended a Saturday vigil mass, I wish I could remember the church name - I think it was St. Etienne du-mont because I seem to remember it was where Durufle played. Anyway, the organist was incredible. Everything she played was beautiful. Her postlude was one of Bach’s fugues, I believe, and she is just going at it. My husband and I watched her as tourists came up to her while she was playing. They started talking to her and here she was playing this difficult piece on this magnificent organ, turning the pages on her own and she was able to answer them back while still focusing on the music. We were astounded.

 

[ProVobis]

I have never been hostile to traditional music.

Rather, I am skeptical that it will ever gain a foothold, let alone a prominent place, in Catholic churches. If I’m wrong, that’s OK.

I prefer to have a realistic outlook about not only music, but about all aspects of life, and I do not have any patience with dreams and hopes and wishes. To me, this is a waste of time and energy.

I believe in putting money where the mouth is, and I believe in taking action to make “dreams” come true.

I want realistic objectives, with a definite “action plan” for achieving those objectives. I want steps that can be written down, goals that can be broken down into specfic actionable steps.

To me, just saying, “Gregorian chant is the preferred music in Mass, so we should have that in our parishes” is a worthless thing to say UNLESS there is an action plan for actually getting Gregorian chant in the parishes.
…

You present some good points. However, perhaps people look toward the pianist or organist or cantor for some kind of music direction. Most wouldn’t know that a high C is twice the frequency of the C below it or the Church encourages Latin chant so what could they do to advance the practice? As I stated some time ago, I think you’re in the best position to lead the advance.

 

[Cat]

The pedals are the fun part! Okay, so all of it is fun, but the pedals make the organ, so to speak. To me it’s the highlighting part of it, although I love the entire organ. And you’re right about good therapy, so long as you do it right and use the proper shoes. Improper technique and equipment (shoes) can lead to injuries. I can believe it as once I switched to proper organ shoes, I could tell there was a lot less pressure on my feet and much less tendency for cramping (and getting a cramp in the middle of one of Bach’s fugues is not fun!).

Be envious! And then use that as motivation to be good at it yourself. Some people have equated playing the pedals to dancing (some people even use dancing shoes!), and you know what? It is like that. Footwork, coordination, and mindless repetition of pedal drills and you’ll start to pick it up. I wouldn’t even worry about putting the hands with the pedals for awhile. Just do the pedals. Watch your feet while you practice them until you can get a feel for the intervals, then try exercises without watching. You’ll find that it becomes like playing a keyboard. You just KNOW where the pedals are without having to look at them, but it DOES take time.

You do realize that I was raised in a church where dancing was considered a sin?!

I tried taking ballroom dance with my husband two years ago. It didn’t work out for me. I just couldn’t do it. My mind wouldn’t let my feet do it. Sigh.

Interestingly, the heros in my novels always are good dancers.

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

You do realize that I was raised in a church where dancing was considered a sin?!

I tried taking ballroom dance with my husband two years ago. It didn’t work out for me. I just couldn’t do it. My mind wouldn’t let my feet do it. Sigh.

Interestingly, the heros in my novels always are good dancers.

Uh oh. The feet wouldn’t do anything even when you didn’t have to do anything else at the same time? Well, the good news is that with the organ you don’t have to worry about tripping over anyone else’s feet while playing — just your own.

One person told me something that’s pretty important about playing the organ – you can’t fear the instrument, and some people are just intimidated by it. Don’t let that happen!

 

[Cat]

You present some good points. However, perhaps people look toward the pianist or organist or cantor for some kind of music direction. Most wouldn’t know that a high C is twice the frequency of the C below it or the Church encourages Latin chant so what could they do to advance the practice? As I stated some time ago, I think you’re in the best position to lead the advance.

I don’t think I’m in any position to lead anything in the Church. I think if you knew me in person you would agree. It’s not a wise idea at this time. It really isn’t.

Perhaps it goes back to being kicked out of the Protestant church. I really can’t take a chance on that kind of thing happening ever again. I wouldn’t be able to handle another church disaster. Just the thought of it frightens me and makes me want to go hide.

At this point, it’s much better that I remain in a position of service rather than try to take the lead in anything. I will wholeheartedly support anyone who is in a leadership position in my parish. (One thing that I am making myself known for at this organ seminar is my encouraging attitude–one of the committee members told me that “I’m a breath of fresh air!”)

But I shouldn’t be in charge of anything in the parish, especially music that I know little-to-nothing about, and Latin which I really don’t get at all.

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

I don’t think I’m in any position to lead anything in the Church. I think if you knew me in person you would agree. It’s not a wise idea at this time. It really isn’t.

Perhaps it goes back to being kicked out of the Protestant church. I really can’t take a chance on that kind of thing happening ever again. I wouldn’t be able to handle another church disaster. Just the thought of it frightens me and makes me want to go hide.

At this point, it’s much better that I remain in a position of service rather than try to take the lead in anything. I will wholeheartedly support anyone who is in a leadership position in my parish. (One thing that I am making myself known for at this organ seminar is my encouraging attitude–one of the committee members told me that “I’m a breath of fresh air!”)

But I shouldn’t be in charge of anything in the parish, especially music that I know little-to-nothing about, and Latin which I really don’t get at all.

Well, if what you say is true about yourself, I know some pastors who’d love to hire to you to be in charge!

In all seriousness, though, just keep doing what you think best. It’s true that sometimes people aren’t meant to lead, but you never know. Sometimes you’re put in that position even when you don’t want it.

 

[ProVobis]

But I shouldn’t be in charge of anything in the parish, especially music that I know little-to-nothing about, and Latin which I really don’t get at all.

Teachers sometimes are put into positions of teaching subjects they know little about, simply because they studied education for a few years. Some of these have turned into the best teachers we have around. Point is teachers have to study and learn too. For example, even if you can’t be the best organ player around, you can still become a super organ teacher for others. You scoff now but I’m sure your investment will pay off in due time, in one way or another.

 

[Cat]

Teachers sometimes are put into positions of teaching subjects they know little about, simply because they studied education for a few years. Some of these have turned into the best teachers we have around. Point is teachers have to study and learn too. For example, even if you can’t be the best organ player around, you can still become a super organ teacher for others. You scoff now but I’m sure your investment will pay off in due time, in one way or another.

Yes, I agree. I have learned so much about hymn-playing that applies to any instrument, not just pipe organ.

Some of this stuff I already do. People sing when I play hymns. And now I know why!

But there were so many other excellent ideas presented by the various professors. (We actually have two more days of lectures, so there is more to come!) I know that I can use these ideas in my own music.

Also, I now understand why some pipe organ music in Mass is just not really good. The wrong registrations are being used, or the contemporary music is being played in a Baroque style (a no-no, BTW, according the professors! Music should be played true-to-composer’s style!), or the tremolo should never be used for congregational singing. I’ve heard all of these gaffes, and I’m guessing some of you have heard them too.

I’m beginning to think that if ALL music in Mass were done correctly and well, that this would eliminate a lot of the arguments about Mass music. I believe that I play contemporary Christian hymns very well, while others slog through them. I also play traditional hymns well, for a pianist.

So perhaps if the contemporary hymns were only done in Mass when good musicians are around who can play them well, more people would like them. No wonder people don’t like “Eagle’s Wings” when it’s played at a dirge tempo on a pipe organ with trumpet settings! Eugh! And no wonder young people don’t like the traditional hymns when they’re played wimpily with a funeral-style tremolo. Echh.

 

[ProVobis]

So perhaps if the contemporary hymns were only done in Mass when good musicians are around who can play them well, more people would like them. No wonder people don’t like “Eagle’s Wings” when it’s played at a dirge tempo on a pipe organ with trumpet settings! Eugh! And no wonder young people don’t like the traditional hymns when they’re played wimpily with a funeral-style tremolo. Echh.

And this I think agrees with my premise: It’s probably not so much what you play/sing but HOW you play/sing it. I guess you have to be there.

 

[TheMc]

And this I think agrees with my premise: It’s probably not so much what you play/sing but HOW you play/sing it. I guess you have to be there.

I don’t know if that’s entirely true. That matters a lot, but what you play is also important.

 

[ProVobis]

I don’t know if that’s entirely true. That matters a lot, but what you play is also important.

True, especially among those who are more theologically astute. But how many of those attending fall into this category?

 

[Sarika]

True, especially among those who are more theologically astute. But how many of those attending fall into this category?

It’s not a matter of being more “theologically astute” as it is being more respectful of the great knowledge and wisdom involved in the directives of the Apostles , who actually are (much) the ones who are more theologically astute. It’s more a thing of submission and respect than anything else. There are REASONS behind the directives, we don’t necessarily have to know or understand them, just humbly accept them, knowing that they are for our true good in the long run.

The music that the Church prefers has the mental/spiritual/physical effect upon us that is the type most efficacious for worshipping God. We have to check our own “opinions” at the door. Or hang them up on the hat clip!