Please help! Boyfriend wants me to dress sexier

[TheRealJuliane]

You are a grown woman with a good head on your shoulders so continue to use it and dress the way YOU want with style and modesty. I think his request is a red flag that you should not ignore. You mentioned that other than this problem you “adore him”. Put him to the test and see if he also adores you. If he does he will respect your decision to dress the way you see fit and make you feel beautiful no matter what you are wearing. Proceed with caution because it is not a good sign when a man who is not even officially your boyfriend asks you to dress sexier .Look for other clues to his true character. He seems immature.

If it were me, I’d be tempted to dress even more “modestly” just to see what his response might be. Probably he’d dump her if she did that.

 

[Cariethra]

This is my experience with dressing “sexy”. In my late teens I decided to ditch my graphic T and jeans for skirts and blouses (nothing overly revealing but the skirts were well above the knee). I started getting hit on my men in their 30’s. It grossed me out so badly that after only a week I went back to my old look.

I have found that met lust after the revealing women, and love the modest. It is actually one of the reasons why I like “What no to Wear”. They talk about being and feeling sexy and pretty without being revealing.

I think this guy is being overly pushy. It comes down to a what next? If you concede with this one and change who you are for him, what is he going to ask for next?

I think it would be better to find a different guy that loves and cherishes you for you.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

No worries.

attacking was rather a harsh word… sorry BEL, I know I shouldn’t have applied that to you either.

No biggie.

I think that this sounds like a misunderstanding to me because it reminds me a lot of a very heated argument that my fiance and I had at the beginning of our relationship about strip clubs. I’m not going to write out the exchange line for line but basically he was telling me what he thought in a vacuum when it came to couples with a certain relationship dynamic. I heard “Going to strip clubs is fine and women should be ok with their men going. This goes extra for bachelor parties, even married men should go in that case.” It caused one of the worst arguments I’ve ever had with anyone. But he wasn’t saying that at all. In fact, he is against going to strip clubs and doesn’t care who’s bachelor party it is, he is staying home. I just started making assumptions and inferences and things got out of hand, and the more we talked the more flustered he got and things started coming out wrong. Because she doesn’t say how or when he told her to change how she dresses I kind of feel like maybe that’s what happened here.

The next day I could’ve written a post very similar to the OP’s, and he could’ve written one that started out like “Last night I was talking to this girl that I just started dating and we got in to strip clubs. Somehow she got the idea that I would go if invited and that if my best friend were to get married her feelings would suddenly stop mattering. Eventually things escalated and I got flustered and nothing came out right. I really like her and have no desire to go to a strip club now or in the future for any reason and I think that it would be very wrong of me to hurt her or any woman like that. But now she’s mad at me and I think that this was all a misunderstanding. How do I apologize and get her to hear me out?”

 

[TheRealJuliane]

No biggie.

I think that this sounds like a misunderstanding to me because it reminds me a lot of a very heated argument that my fiance and I had at the beginning of our relationship about strip clubs. I’m not going to write out the exchange line for line but basically he was telling me what he thought in a vacuum when it came to couples with a certain relationship dynamic. I heard “Going to strip clubs is fine and women should be ok with their men going. This goes extra for bachelor parties, even married men should go in that case.” It caused one of the worst arguments I’ve ever had with anyone. But he wasn’t saying that at all. In fact, he is against going to strip clubs and doesn’t care who’s bachelor party it is, he is staying home. I just started making assumptions and inferences and things got out of hand, and the more we talked the more flustered he got and things started coming out wrong. Because she doesn’t say how or when he told her to change how she dresses I kind of feel like maybe that’s what happened here.

The next day I could’ve written a post very similar to the OP’s, and he could’ve written one that started out like “Last night I was talking to this girl that I just started dating and we got in to strip clubs. Somehow she got the idea that I would go if invited and that if my best friend were to get married her feelings would suddenly stop mattering. Eventually things escalated and I got flustered and nothing came out right. I really like her and have no desire to go to a strip club now or in the future for any reason and I think that it would be very wrong of me to hurt her or any woman like that. But now she’s mad at me and I think that this was all a misunderstanding. How do I apologize and get her to hear me out?”

Well, that’s part of the problem.

But what about him telling her that it’s OK to get aroused as long as you don’t do anything physical? That was actually what got them into the “heated debate” in the first place.

She wrote: *"I am dating a guy (he isn’t technically my bf but we have discussed the possibility of a relationship) who is extremely wonderful and so much like me, **except for this exception: he seems to think it’s fine to be physically aroused so long as one does not follow up with physical action.

It launched us into a heated debate, our first ever.** (Btw, we are both mid-20’s)*

That, to me, set the tone of the discussion that followed. He is telling her “We can fool around all we want, as long as we don’t have sex, oh and by the way, maybe you can dress a little more sexy on my behalf as well.”

It’s not only about the clothing, it’s about him having a cavalier attitude toward her modesty and chastity.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Well, that’s part of the problem.

But what about him telling her that it’s OK to get aroused as long as you don’t do anything physical? That was actually what got them into the “heated debate” in the first place.

She wrote: *"I am dating a guy (he isn’t technically my bf but we have discussed the possibility of a relationship) who is extremely wonderful and so much like me, **except for this exception: he seems to think it’s fine to be physically aroused so long as one does not follow up with physical action.

It launched us into a heated debate, our first ever.*** (Btw, we are both mid-20’s)

That, to me, set the tone of the discussion that followed. He is telling her “We can fool around all we want, as long as we don’t have sex, oh and by the way, maybe you can dress a little more sexy on my behalf as well.”

It’s not only about the clothing, it’s about him having a cavalier attitude toward her modesty and chastity.

He said it was fine to be aroused as long as they didn’t follow up with anything physical. That pretty much means that fooling around all they want is out.

She never said anything about him wanting to fool around with her or wanting her to change the way he dresses. You are making some pretty uncharitable assumptions about what he wants from her based on the very limited information provided.

Like I said, this looks a lot like he said something along the lines of “I really don’t see a problem with women dressing like _________ because I’ve seen it so much that I’m pretty much over it. That’s just not what I look for anymore. And even if I do get aroused as long as I don’t dwell on it or act on it it isn’t a sin, because as long as I wasn’t looking to be then it was just a function of nature.”

While they could still have legitimate disagreements about the above statement it isn’t exactly the kind of earth shattering thing that everyone is making it out to be.

He could have said what you’re inferring, or he could have just as easily said what I just posted. But making assumptions about his character and what he “really” wants from her is counterproductive and kind of mean, since we don’t know anything at all.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Well, until the OP comes back and updates her thread, I’m done.

 

[polishandproud]

Whatever you do! Do not give into him! In the end you’ll be sorry! Because, next then he’ll force you into an impure relationship, which is one you don’t want! save your body for when you’re married. If your BF cant except you the way you are, Dump him NOW!. My advice on this is, I advise you to buy this book it’s called REAL LOVE by mary beth bonacci Great book one of my favorites! Or any book written by jason evert, He’s good too! it’ll help you in this situation. Good luck you’re in my prayers ! P.S Dont go for a guy who isn’t interested in a chaste relationship (this includes in dressing)

 

[thewanderer]

Well, that’s part of the problem.

But what about him telling her that it’s OK to get aroused as long as you don’t do anything physical? That was actually what got them into the “heated debate” in the first place.

She wrote: "I am dating a guy (he isn’t technically my bf but we have discussed the possibility of a relationship) who is extremely wonderful and so much like me, except for this exception: he seems to think it’s fine to be physically aroused so long as one does not follow up with physical action.

It launched us into a heated debate, our first ever. (Btw, we are both mid-20’s)

That, to me, set the tone of the discussion that followed. He is telling her “We can fool around all we want, as long as we don’t have sex, oh and by the way, maybe you can dress a little more sexy on my behalf as well.”

It’s not only about the clothing, it’s about him having a cavalier attitude toward her modesty and chastity.

Well, the thing is that he really could have been just saying that it is not objectively wrong to be attracted or aroused to someone else, even if you are not married to them. Because, honestly, its not. And it is not necessary to avoid every situation which you know will cause some extent of arousal. If that point was all he was getting at then he is 100% correct. Arousal itself isn’t sinful, it is how you react to that which can be sinful.

 

[Chevaleresse]

I am dating a guy (he isn’t technically my bf but we have discussed the possibility of a relationship) who is extremely wonderful and so much like me, except for this exception: he seems to think it’s fine to be physically aroused so llong as one does not follow up with physical action.

It launched us into a heated debate, our first ever. (Btw, we are both mid-20’s)

I explained that the Church tells people to dress in a way that does not tempt the opposite sex to thoughts of fornication (or for married people, adultery) because you are responsible not just for your own sin, but also the sin of the person who lusts for you.

He purposely answers me in a very slippery way, which was entirely new to me… saying he doesnt lust much anymore, so it wouldn’t be a problem to see me like that… saying that he does not believe men are more visually wired than women… telling me that women should feel ok being uncovered if men are allowed to wear only shorts in public… saying that, even after a couple is married, the husband will want other men to be jealous of his wife (basically, that he would be proud if his future wife made other men jealous of his trophy)

What should I do? I dress mainstream but attractive… a jeans, tee, and high heels kind of gal. I am not a prude, I just have the facts of Church teaching, and he does not… and he is very much butting heads with me over this! How can I handle him so that I don’t lose him completely over this issue? I adore him otherwise.

Just leave him. There’s lots of Catholic men looking for Catholic women who actually take their faith seriously.

 

[TimeEntrance]

My main thrust was to highlight that provocative clothes do effect the person wearing them and the person viewing it. What I mean by “effect” is a stimulus. Obviously if a certain style of clothing had no bearing on matters the OP wouldn’t even need to have a concern.

In this thread a young man wants his girlfriend to wear clothes that turn him on. She is resistant because she doesn’t feel good about putting such clothes on, where as another female would feel sexy wearing such clothes. What I see is a culture that puts many women (and men) in tight fitting or revealing clothes, not for comfort but to appeal to the opposite sex. Then someone, even a Catholic, will take a stance that apparel is subjective. You mean we don’t know what the purpose of wearing an evening gown is as opposed to wearing a short skirt?

If women are wearing clothes with the intent to induce lust, they are sinning, as well as the man who stares at such clothing. At home , in marriage this is not the case. Someone will always say, “how much skin is too much”. Again, if removing more of the evening gown makes it sexier, one must consider what the purpose of “sexier” is and what it is designed to do.

Our culture has become accepting of tight fitting and revealing clothes, they are mainstreamed causing a great deal of desensitizing but our innate inhibitions remain as the OP demonstrates.

Fair post, Johnny.

In general “tight” clothing isn’t usually fashionable for males today, though. There are some apparel exceptions like the motorcycle “bikers” vest.

So, let me ask, would you consider it immoral for a woman to wear a biker vest and not a man? Or do you view it as immoral for both if the male is shirtless under the vest?

But if the key word is intent as in intent to induce lust then does it potentially, logically, follow that liberals (not conservatives) will always historically set the parameters of what is seductive clothing or dress?

I’m not sure the issue simply comes down to “tightness” per se of the clothing. Trousers, even if loose fitting, reveal the shape of a woman lower body far more than the Islamic burqa or long, loose fitting dresses.

On an interesting note, I recall a young Muslim woman online told me that in Islam a man is supposed to dress modestly also, in that he is not supposed to reveal his bare belly to the public or women. I’m assuming that Islam traditionally perceives a well formed male abdomen as something that can incite lust in women. That’s my assumption anyways.

I’m not a fan of the burqa. But it seems to me Muslims of Afghanistan have kept far more in keeping with Christ and Madonna dressing than the Christian of the West have. In Afghanistan we might say the conservatives have led the fashion of society and therefore the fashion has remained virtually unaltered since time of Christ and Madonna. In the Christian West the conservative will always decry today’s liberal fashion only to enthusiastically embrace it tomorrow. Therefore, the liberal leads the way.

Here are some photos of biker vests for both men and women: mcvests.com/biker-vests/

Also, what do you think of the typical male beach wear of Rio de Janeiro, Brazil? I ask this in light of a Spanish priest during the 19th Century I think it was, that designed full body covered beach/swim wear for men. He found the exposed skin of Catholic men on the beaches as sinful. This was back when Spain was still possibly the most conservative Catholic nation on earth. I would probably put the Latin American countries of Chile and Mexico in that spot now. Brazil is arguably one of the most liberal of Catholic nations.

 

[TimeEntrance]

While they could still have legitimate disagreements about the above statement it isn’t exactly the kind of earth shattering thing that everyone is making it out to be.

You’ve heard the phrase, “What would Jesus do?”

Well, I wonder, “What would Mary the Holy Mother do?” in terms of dressing in our contemporary Western World. Perhaps, I’m wrong (possible), but I have a very hard time believing if the Virgin Mary were living in our world today she would be walking around in public in high heels and jeans. Even rather loose fitting jeans.

But I’ll admit my perceptions and struggles with imagining the Virgin Mary (just imagining that males me feel sinful to a very high and dangerous degree) dressed like the OP has to be in part if not largely influenced by the Catholic artistic representation of the Virgin Mary which is essentially Taliban-esque. Except the face of our Holy Mother is never covered up. So, the artistic representations are not 100% Taliban-esque.

I’m sure someone take exception with my use of the word “Taliban” here. But I think that has more to do with our Western preconceived notions and our focus on the Taliban’s less than charitable actions - and sometimes down right evil actions. But it might be similar to a Seventh Day Adventists or some other anti-Catholic hearing the words “Catholic” or “Pope,” a bias and prejudicial response internally in the person is invoked.

Notice the essential Islamic-ness of the way Our Lady is dressed. No trousers worn. Head covered.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Few nuns in the United States today even seem to walk around in public with their head covered. Liberals always lead the way in the Christian West. The conservative usually never have a clue to what yesterday looked like be for they were born.

Jazz musician Wynton Marsalis is one of the few relatively young men of our day that rebels against a certain wide spread liberalism by evoking a certain conservativism (mainly in education and some social behaviors).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wynton_Marsalis

 

[TheRealJuliane]

You are so incredibly off topic here. Can you please open up a thread on the Philosophy Forum? Does the OP really need a master’s thesis on Western fashion? This wasn’t her question at all.

 

[Lucky7]

7 pages and only one post from the OP?

I’m not willing to jump on the “run don’t walk” train without more information.

Edit: Or I could have ditto’d BEL.

 

[TimeEntrance]

You are so incredibly off topic here. Can you please open up a thread on the Philosophy Forum? Does the OP really need a master’s thesis on Western fashion? This wasn’t her question at all.

Actually, I think it’s very much on topic, if in fact “modest” dress is essentially relative as conservative Catholics seem to prove. Which might suggest the OP’s aversion to tighter fitting jeans or a short skirt is a personal bias resulting from familial values and the era she lives in. Because it’s very possible those clothes she - and you - regard as immodest will be enthusiastically embraced by conservative Catholics as the epitome of modesty circa 2050 or something.

And what Fernand Braudel called “stable societies,” like Afghanistan for example, will still be dressing Christ and Holy Madonna-like circa 2050.

Example.

Virgin Mary:


Afghan girl.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...Sharbat_Gula_on_National_Geographic_cover.jpg

Notice any similarity? Fernand Braudel apparently did - as do I.

Since when did not women not covering their heads/hair in Catholicism not become immodest?

Occasionally, I’ll see little old ladies in Catholic churches with their heads covered with veils. But since younger generations of conservative Catholics abandon all Madonna-like dress, I’m to assume Catholicism has historically (and is likely today) completely wrong about what is intrinsically immoral in dress fashion. It must all be subjective.

Do women go to hell if they don’t cover their hair with scarfs? Female hair can incite lust in men Catholics seem to have thought - as absolute truth - once. If not then the topless beaches of Spain or the tight jeans of secular American women probably does not get a woman damned eternally to hell. Just saying.

But I think, Johnny might have touched on the most important theme and point: intent. And maybe it is the intent which is sinful. And maybe that is how the changing Catholic views on female fashion (or male fashion, although that seems to be a less popular criticism or discussion) can be reconciled to the goals of imitating Christ and Madonna. Actually, I don’t know. This is a question which I have no answer for at this time.

Essentially, the OP must examine her conscience and the desires, qualities, and character traits of the young man prodding her to dress more “sexy” (which I would like to know what that is for him - if it’s a female top that has no sleeves but covers the shoulders, obviously he and I might have two different conceptions of “wickedly sexy” to use that term) and make her decision based upon her Catholic faith and what her heart tells her is right. At least right for her.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

You’ve heard the phrase, “What would Jesus do?”

Well, I wonder, “What would Mary the Holy Mother do?” in terms of dressing in our contemporary Western World. Perhaps, I’m wrong (possible), but I have a very hard time believing if the Virgin Mary were living in our world today she would be walking around in public in high heels and jeans. Even rather loose fitting jeans.

But I’ll admit my perceptions and struggles with imagining the Virgin Mary (just imagining that males me feel sinful to a very high and dangerous degree) dressed like the OP has to be in part if not largely influenced by the Catholic artistic representation of the Virgin Mary which is essentially Taliban-esque. Except the face of our Holy Mother is never covered up. So, the artistic representations are not 100% Taliban-esque.

I’m sure someone take exception with my use of the word “Taliban” here. But I think that has more to do with our Western preconceived notions and our focus on the Taliban’s less than charitable actions - and sometimes down right evil actions. But it might be similar to a Seventh Day Adventists or some other anti-Catholic hearing the words “Catholic” or “Pope,” a bias and prejudicial response internally in the person is invoked.

Notice the essential Islamic-ness of the way Our Lady is dressed. No trousers worn. Head covered.

No one painted a portrait of Mary when she was alive. We do not know for a fact how she dressed, though I’m sure we can speculate.

In any event, for the life of me, I don’t understand where you’re going with this. You just posted some information about how you dress. My question would be this: is that how Jesus dressed? I should think not.

So if you think all women ought to dress the same as Mary did, then why aren’t you dressing like Jesus? It would seem to follow.

 

[Andre1000]

It is sad to see that we Catholics always try to sin as much as possible without to lose salvation. We find excuses to dress more sexy, to wear shorter skirts, to wear topless, to go to the beach, to wear pants as women, and so on… We want to be like the world, we want to be from this word.

“Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.”
(Romans 12:2)

We should think different, we should think how to be more modest, how to sin less, how to worship God more…

No one painted a portrait of Mary when she was alive. We do not know for a fact how she dressed, though I’m sure we can speculate.

In any event, for the life of me, I don’t understand where you’re going with this. You just posted some information about how you dress. My question would be this: is that how Jesus dressed? I should think not.

So if you think all women ought to dress the same as Mary did, then why aren’t you dressing like Jesus? It would seem to follow.

First: Jesus is male so she should not dress like him.
Second: Look at all old paintings about Mary, Christians have always believed that she dressed like that so it is Tradition. You argument could be also used against the Dogmas of Mary, so it is invalid.

 

[bmaj]

I know a few posters mentioned this already, but I will also… would highly recommend that you discuss the issue of pornography with him before the relationship goes any further. This man fits the profile of someone who would definitely utilize it whenever he wished - either when single or married - no matter what his girlfriend/wife wished. A huge red flag to be extremely wary of.
My gut instinct tells me just from reading your post that he is not the type of guy worthy of a good person like yourself, but your relationship is in your hands. Please think real carefully before proceeding. God bless.

 

[thewanderer]

It is sad to see that we Catholics always try to sin as much as possible without to lose salvation. We find excuses to dress more sexy, to wear shorter skirts, to wear topless, to go to the beach, to wear pants as women, and so on… We want to be like the world, we want to be from this word.

“Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.”
(Romans 12:2)

We should think different, we should think how to be more modest, how to sin less, how to worship God more…

First: Jesus is male so she should not dress like him.
Second: Look at all old paintings about Mary, Christians have always believed that she dressed like that so it is Tradition. You argument could be also used against the Dogmas of Mary, so it is invalid.

I believe the point was that if you expect women to dress as Mary used to then you ought also yo expect men to dress as Jesus. It’s a very valid point.

 

[kbwall]

He purposely answers me in a very slippery way, which was entirely new to me… saying he doesnt lust much anymore, so it wouldn’t be a problem to see me like that.

Transparent lie. If he isn’t feeling lustful, then why would he want to see you like that?

saying that he does not believe men are more visually wired than women.

This is just straight up stupid.

telling me that women should feel ok being uncovered if men are allowed to wear only shorts in public.

Also stupid. Even if a guy is walking around in only shorts, those shorts are almost always baggy and conservative (unless it’s one of those “those” guys). The clothing for women is much more form fitting and in case of immodesty, much more revealing. The equivalent clothing on a guy would be like him walking around in briefs or a speedo, which is just not cool.

saying that, even after a couple is married, the husband will want other men to be jealous of his wife (basically, that he would be proud if his future wife made other men jealous of his trophy)

So, he openly admits that you’d be his trophy? Why are you dating him again?

What should I do?

He sounds like a complete moron who hasn’t got a clue what he’s talking about, and is an awful liar. Stand your ground. If he leaves you because you dress modestly, then he wasn’t even remotely worth your time.

 

[DAML72]

I don’t go by other threads. She is dealing with THIS issue right now.

Her attire isn’t the issue. The issue is that this guy, who is not even her boyfriend, is trying to change her. He is LYING to her, about how he doesn’t have lust any more. And minimizing the fact that men ARE more visual, no matter what he tells her. They are having heated arguments about it, and she describes him as “slippery.” That is not a good start to a relationship.

This! I’m sure the OP doesn’t need more rationalizations for conforming to this guy’s desires. She came here for support in holding to her values. But, most importantly, it’s not about the way he wants her to dress - it is about the huge RED FLAGS that we see in his character. I, for one, am trying to save her some major pain.