Please help clarify catholic understanding of Islam

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I seem to be getting mixed messages about Catholics opinions on Islam.

questions

1] do Muslims worship the same god as Catholics the god of the bible?

2] Is Islam a religion of peace to be accepted, or should we preach the gospel to them as well and look to convert?

3] Is Islam true? or does it have parts of truth in it?

4] Why did the church call crusades against Islam before, yet seems to accept them today?
 
jjsmity said:
1] do Muslims worship the same god as Catholics the god of the bible?
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Well, there is only one God.

Muslims (as well as Jews) profess to worship the God of Abraham, the one True God. We also profess to worship the God of Abraham. We recognize that this God is a Trinity of Persons, Muslims (and Jews) do not. Does that mean they do not worship the God of Abraham? No. It means they sincerely believe they are worshiping the God of Abraham, but we believe they have incomplete or incorrect knowledge of Him.

So, yes, in the sense that there is only one God, and we all claim to worship Him, we worship the “same God”. Don’t confuse that to mean that we believe the same thing about God, or that we are all three correct about that God. Catholicism would reject the idea that everyone is fine worshiping God as they see fit, and anything goes. Our mission in evangelization is to bring people to the truth about who God is.

We acknowledge their sincere search for God, but of course we believe they are mistaken about many things, including the nature of God.
jjsmity said:
Is Islam a religion of peace to be accepted, or should we preach the gospel to them as well and look to convert?
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The Church doesn’t have any teaching on Islam’s tenets of faith. We have teaching on our own tenets of faith.

Yes, we are called to evangelize all people.
jjsmity said:
Is Islam true?
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No. Islam is, in essence, a derivation of the Arian heresy mixed with tribal paganism of the 7th century, Iconoclasm, and some elements of Judaism and Christianity.
jjsmity said:
or does it have parts of truth in it?
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Most religions do, as they are mostly all a search for truth and God.
jjsmity said:
Why did the church call crusades against Islam before
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Because Christian lands and people were under attack, and the Crusades were called to defend against the aggression.
jjsmity said:
yet seems to accept them today?
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Define “accept”.

Do we call for invasion of countries? No. Do we call for discrimination against Muslims living in democratic societies and going about their business like good citizens? No.

Do we oppose unjust aggression and call for the defense of peoples being attacked by groups like ISIS? Yes, of course.
 
1ke said:
Well, there is only one God.

Muslims (as well as Jews) profess to worship the God of Abraham, the one True God. We also profess to worship the God of Abraham. We recognize that this God is a Trinity of Persons, Muslims (and Jews) do not. Does that mean they do not worship the God of Abraham? No. It means they sincerely believe they are worshiping the God of Abraham, but we believe they have incomplete or incorrect knowledge of Him.

So, yes, in the sense that there is only one God, and we all claim to worship Him, we worship the “same God”. Don’t confuse that to mean that we believe the same thing about God, or that we are all three correct about that God. Catholicism would reject the idea that everyone is fine worshiping God as they see fit, and anything goes. Our mission in evangelization is to bring people to the truth about who God is.

We acknowledge their sincere search for God, but of course we believe they are mistaken about many things, including the nature of God.

The Church doesn’t have any teaching on Islam’s tenets of faith. We have teaching on our own tenets of faith.

Yes, we are called to evangelize all people.

No. Islam is, in essence, a derivation of the Arian heresy mixed with tribal paganism of the 7th century, Iconoclasm, and some elements of Judaism and Christianity.

Most religions do, as they are mostly all a search for truth and God.

Because Christian lands and people were under attack, and the Crusades were called to defend against the aggression.

Define “accept”.

Do we call for invasion of countries? No. Do we call for discrimination against Muslims living in democratic societies and going about their business like good citizens? No.

Do we oppose unjust aggression and call for the defense of peoples being attacked by groups like ISIS? Yes, of course.
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Thank you for response. I guess were I am having trouble is number 1. How can we both worship the god of abraham, yet that god be different in say the bible and koran.
 
jjsmity said:
Thank you for response. I guess were I am having trouble is number 1. How can we both worship the god of abraham, yet that god be different in say the bible and koran.
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Do you believe Jews and Christians worship the same God?
 
1ke said:
Do you believe Jews and Christians worship the same God?
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I would say it depends on there understanding. The same god of the old and new yes. Koran is different book, different god,not just another nt or ot. I would not say all jews are saved no.
 
jjsmity said:
I seem to be getting mixed messages about Catholics opinions on Islam.
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jjsmity said:
Thank you for response. I guess were I am having trouble is number 1.
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For clarity read the following:
Not Peace But a Sword by Robert Spencer
The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam, also by Robert Spencer
How To Answer Muslims by Catholic Answers.

All are available at the Catholic Answers bookstore: shop.catholic.com/beginning-apologetics-9-how-to-answer-muslims.html
 
jjsmity said:
I seem to be getting mixed messages about Catholics opinions on Islam.
Click to expand...
jjsmity said:
Thank you for response. I guess were I am having trouble is number 1.
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For clarity read the following:
Not Peace But a Sword by Robert Spencer
The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam, also by Robert Spencer
How To Answer Muslims by Catholic Answers.

All are available at the Catholic Answers bookstore: shop.catholic.com/beginning-apologetics-9-how-to-answer-muslims.html
 
The Church has defined (at the First Vatican Council) that God can be acknowledged without faith. Faith is believing what He has revealed. As such, it is possible for someone to acknowledge and even adore God but be deceived or mistaken as to what He has revealed.

Furthermore, the defining aspect of God is that for Him, essence is the same as existence (as summed up in His ultimate declaration of who He is: “I AM” or “I AM who AM.”) He is the Creator of all that exists and all other being is dependent on Him.

It is impossible to posit a being for whom essence and existence are the same who is not God. By definition, if for a being essence and existence are the same, it is God. Muslims acknowledge God as the Creator of the Universe and for whom essence and existence are the same. That’s all that’s necessary to acknowledge God (in fact, the virtue of religion, which is not a theological virtue, but falls under justice, is to honor God as the Creator and principle of all being).

The rest of the truth about God and His plan for our salvation is known only by faith in God’s word, but this is not necessary to simply acknowledge Him or worship Him.

Nothing more should be implied from acknowledging this basic truth–we should not put the two religions therefore on the same footing, we should not treat the two holy books as both authentically revealed, etc., etc. This also does not mean that everything done in His name is therefore virtuous or good.
 
1ke said:
From your perspective. Jews would disagree.

That’s what the Jews would say about the New Testament and our concept of God as Trinity.

Well, from their perspective it is.
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tell me one jew [non messanic] that says we worship same god?

I agree, just as I would say islam is false.

So to stay on topic, how does a catholic understand them and Muslims as worshiping the same god even though those gods are separate and different?.
 
Genesis315 said:
The Church has defined (at the First Vatican Council) that God can be acknowledged without faith. Faith is believing what He has revealed. As such, it is possible for someone to acknowledge and even adore God but be deceived or mistaken as to what He has revealed.

Furthermore, the defining aspect of God is that for Him, essence is the same as existence (as summed up in His ultimate declaration of who He is: “I AM” or “I AM who AM.”) He is the Creator of all that exists and all other being is dependent on Him.

It is impossible to posit a being for whom essence and existence are the same who is not God. By definition, if for a being essence and existence are the same, it is God. Muslims acknowledge God as the Creator of the Universe and for whom essence and existence are the same. That’s all that’s necessary to acknowledge God (in fact, the virtue of religion, which is not a theological virtue, but falls under justice, is to honor God as the Creator and principle of all being).

The rest of the truth about God and His plan for our salvation is known only by faith in God’s word, but this is not necessary to simply acknowledge Him or worship Him.

Nothing more should be implied from acknowledging this basic truth–we should not put the two religions therefore on the same footing, we should not treat the two holy books as both authentically revealed, etc., etc. This also does not mean that everything done in His name is therefore virtuous or good.
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Thank you. Would a Muslim be saved for being a good Muslim? or a muslim who is searching after the true good only or neither in your opinion.
 
jjsmity said:
I seem to be getting mixed messages about Catholics opinions on Islam.
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Not to interrupt the conversation between you and 1ke, but I just want to say that - everyone can have an “opinion” but since you are asking for the “Catholic understanding” of Islam…you should look at Church teaching.

As 1ke points out, the Church does not really address Islam’s tenets…but the Catechism does address what should be our relationship to Islam…Sorry I can’t look it up right now…maybe someone else can post it.

Peace
James
 
RBushlow said:
For clarity read the following:
Not Peace But a Sword by Robert Spencer
The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam, also by Robert Spencer
How To Answer Muslims by Catholic Answers.

All are available at the Catholic Answers bookstore: shop.catholic.com/beginning-apologetics-9-how-to-answer-muslims.html
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thanks. Is robert spencer a catholic? i am getting a two books of his already. So how woud these resources saying islam is false, reconcile with the pope and vatican 2 i think, that says we worship same god?.
 
jjsmity said:
tell me one jew [non messanic] that says we worship same god?
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They wouldn’t.

But Christians would say that Jews worship the one true God.

How can this be if they don’t believe in the “same God” we do?
jjsmity said:
So to stay on topic, how does a catholic understand them and Muslims as worshiping the same god even though those gods are separate and different?.
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The same way we would say that Jews worship the same God we do. They acknowledge the revelation to Moses of “I AM”.
 
jjsmity said:
thanks. Is robert spencer a catholic? i am getting a two books of his already.
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Yup, and so is the Catholic Answers staff who wrote the How To Answer Muslims Catholic Answers pamphlet, it is very inexpensive (less than $5.00)so you might want to start with that one.

They bring it all together pretty well, but you’ve got to read it if you want to comprehend it.
 
jjsmity said:
Thank you. Would a Muslim be saved for being a good Muslim? or a muslim who is searching after the true good only or neither in your opinion.
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The answer to your question is “maybe”.

The Baptist and Catholic understanding of “saved” is quite different so I think it’s difficult to talk about that without clarifying terms.

See the link I provided to the Catechism. It addresses this question.

The church document Dominus Iesus is another good read:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html
 
1] do Muslims worship the same god as Catholics the god of the bible?
Yes, but in a flawed way due to the errors within Islam. The three Abrahamic faiths all worship the same God. Judaism- under the accurate but incomplete understanding of the Old Covenant, Christians- with accurate and complete understanding (here grouping in non-Catholic Christians with Catholic for simplicity), Muslims- inaccurately and incompletely due to the errors within Islam (unlike Judaism and Christianity, Islam isn’t divinely inspired/guided; Muslims believe their faith is a continuation of the other two, but it’s not and that is the subject for another thread)
2] Is Islam a religion of peace to be accepted, or should we preach the gospel to them as well and look to convert?
You need to better define the term “peace” as it has numerous definitions that would change how I would respond.
3] Is Islam true? or does it have parts of truth in it?
The Church teaches that it, like the other non-Judaism non-Christian faiths, has parts of the truth within it since the truth is universal (applies to everyone, everyone can find it/understand it) and absolute (analogy- gold is gold regardless if it is in a gold bar or in a mound of dirt; the dirt doesn’t change it to being not gold)
4] Why did the church call crusades against Islam before, yet seems to accept them today?
Which crusade are you talking about?
 
1ke said:
They wouldn’t.

But Christians would say that Jews worship the one true God.

How can this be if they don’t believe in the “same God” we do?

The same way we would say that Jews worship the same God we do. They acknowledge the revelation to Moses of “I AM”.
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saying the nt and ot is the same is not like saying the bible and koran god are the same so your analogy I believe does not work. Any official document to clarify?
1ke said:
The answer to your question is “maybe”.

The Baptist and Catholic understanding of “saved” is quite different so I think it’s difficult to talk about that without clarifying terms.

See the link I provided to the Catechism. It addresses this question.

The church document Dominus Iesus is another good read:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html
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thank you i will look into them.
 
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