Please help clarify catholic understanding of Islam

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oldcatholicguy said:
Should I also assume you view Mr. Slick as qualified to be considered an expert on Catholicism as Mr. Spencer is to be considered an expert on Islam?
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I consider Chesterton to be just as much an expert as Spencer for the sake of this proposed point, even though his [Chesterton] education doesn’t indicate this for equivalence purposes. Unless its considered Chesterton was lacking education, definitely not an expert, then I guess by this paradigm no one should pay attention to him or read him. Why exactly?

Who gets to define what an expert is? I believe there is lacking consensus on that point?
 
Ignatius said:
The books are available Catholic Answers store: shop.catholic.com/not-peace-but-a-sword-the-great-chasm-between-christianity-and-islam.html
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Following the conversation this point above creates unresolved conflict. In my mind if CAF advertised the Spencer book which it does. Then how do we honestly evaluate their expert opinion of Spencer in fairness? I mean is their integrity in question since Spencers credibility is called into account? It casts doubt which I see as uncalled for.

Which is why Spencers books should be debated by their content and point by point. By implication it shows CAF in a light that just seems unjust to me. Further by the logic above its wrong.

Just saying
 
GaryTaylor said:
I consider Chesterton to be just as much an expert as Spencer for the sake of this proposed point, even though his [Chesterton] education doesn’t indicate this for equivalence purposes. Unless its considered Chesterton was lacking education, definitely not an expert, then I guess by this paradigm no one should pay attention to him or read him. Why exactly?

Who gets to define what an expert is? I believe there is lacking consensus on that point?
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The question was regarding the comparison of Mr. Slick and Mr. Spencer. Perhaps you should respond to that prior to trying to interject someone completely different.
 
jjsmity said:
I seem to be getting mixed messages about Catholics opinions on Islam.

questions

1] do Muslims worship the same god as Catholics the god of the bible?
Yes, but there are vast differences in our understanding of that nature and essence of that God. He is however the God of Abraham to all of us. Most responding to this question jump right to the idea that if our understanding is so different about his Nature that he must be a different God, but he is definitely one in the same if our Abraham is the same as their Abraham.

2] Is Islam a religion of peace to be accepted, or should we preach the gospel to them as well and look to convert?
We are called to spread the Gospel so regardless of whether Islam is a religion of peace or not we are not to accept it. Like Protestantism, Islam lacks a single “head” of the faith or vicar on earth and as such is just as lacking in unity as the 50,000 protestant denominations. The result is killing between the sects, Sunni/shia etc. Then given the extremist factions who have as much right to call themselves Muslims as any other sect I think its safe to say that Islam is not a religion of peace but that doesn’t mean it can’t be.

3] Is Islam true? or does it have parts of truth in it?
No, God is truth and he established his Church in Christ Jesus so Islam can’t be true.

4] Why did the church call crusades against Islam before, yet seems to accept them today?
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The Church called the first crusades to preserve itself in accord with God's plan. The Church today wants nothing more than to convert Muslims to Christianity by spreading the Love Christ taught us to live out.
 
jjsmity said:
I seem to be getting mixed messages about Catholics opinions on Islam.

questions

1] do Muslims worship the same god as Catholics the god of the bible?

2] Is Islam a religion of peace to be accepted, or should we preach the gospel to them as well and look to convert?

3] Is Islam true? or does it have parts of truth in it?

4] Why did the church call crusades against Islam before, yet seems to accept them today?
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Regards question 4, I recommend “The Glory of the Crusades”, by Steve Weidenkpf. Also, read blog: catholic.com/blog/steve-weidenkopf/why-the-crusades-were-glorious
 
oldcatholicguy said:
The question was regarding the comparison of Mr. Slick and Mr. Spencer. Perhaps you should respond to that prior to trying to interject someone completely different.
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Before we can determine there has to be a criteria? What makes someone an expert? Isn’t expertise subjective here or do we have a set criteria? Does CAFs opinion count as expert in relation to the books by Spencer? To me its not a comparison of expertism with either Mr. Slick and Mr. Spencer unless we know whats required to be an expert. In this case the expertise of Spencer seems to be reviewed by CAF? Thus my point #42.
 
GaryTaylor said:
Before we can determine there has to be a criteria? What makes someone an expert? Isn’t expertise subjective here or do we have a set criteria? Does CAFs opinion count as expert in relation to the books by Spencer? To me its not a comparison of expertism with either Mr. Slick and Mr. Spencer unless we know whats required to be an expert. In this case the expertise of Spencer seems to be reviewed by CAF? Thus my point #42.
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Yes, another non-answer. Not only that, your above non-answer invalidates your attempt to interject Mr. Chesterton into the discussion (your non-answer response in post 41). So, back to the actual question. Mr. Slick is just a valid expert on Catholicism as Mr. Spencer is on Islam?
 
oldcatholicguy said:
So, back to the actual question. Mr. Slick is just a valid expert on Catholicism as Mr. Spencer is on Islam?
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Expert is undefined unless we use Webster, then perhaps both are as the gap widens, thus no set criteria.
 
GaryTaylor said:
Expert is undefined unless we use Webster, then perhaps both are as the gap widens, thus no set criteria.
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Apparently you have a good enough definition to compare Mr. Spencer to Mr. Chesterton and to try to interject your comparison into the discussion instead of addressing my comparison of Mr. Spencer to Mr. Slick. Perhaps the reason you are so reluctant to apply your criteria to my point is that you can not find criteria that would classify Mr. Spencer as an expert without having to also classify Mr. Slick as an expert. Or are you now trying to claim that your comparison of Mr. Spencer and Mr. Chesterton was incorrect and therefore of no value to the discussion because you are unable to set criteria?🤷
 
oldcatholicguy said:
Perhaps the reason you are so reluctant to apply your criteria to my point is that you can not find criteria that would classify Mr. Spencer as an expert
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The point is we have no set criteria period, what we have is opinion at the moment and thus I see no reason to disregard CAFs. 🤷
 
GaryTaylor said:
The point is we have no set criteria period, what we have is opinion at the moment and thus I see no reason to disregard CAFs. 🤷
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Funny, “no set criteria” didn’t seem to bother you when you described my post as a rant and tried to switch the comparison to Mr. Chesterton. I guess one has to claim “no set criteria” when the person one is trying to hold up as an expert (Mr. Spencer) is less qualified than someone one doesn’t want to deem an expert (Mr. Slick).
 
oldcatholicguy said:
Funny, “no set criteria” didn’t seem to bother you when you described my post as a rant and tried to switch the comparison to Mr. Chesterton. I guess one has to claim “no set criteria” when the person one is trying to hold up as an expert (Mr. Spencer) is less qualified than someone one doesn’t want to deem an expert (Mr. Slick).
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The comparison with all of them indicates there is “no set criteria”. The definition of “expert” is obviously vital to any analysis of expertise. If external standards exist such as with CAF and Spencers books, which they do, then the definition is pretty much straightforward by extension or do we need a set criteria for CAF also? I don’t think so do you? So to the point, the only expertise we have here is CAF?
 
oldcatholicguy said:
Funny, “no set criteria” didn’t seem to bother you when you described my post as a rant and tried to switch the comparison to Mr. Chesterton. I guess one has to claim “no set criteria” when the person one is trying to hold up as an expert (Mr. Spencer) is less qualified than someone one doesn’t want to deem an expert (Mr. Slick).
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GaryTaylor said:
The comparison with all of them indicates there is “no set criteria”. The definition of “expert” is obviously vital to any analysis of expertise. If external standards exist such as with CAF and Spencers books, which they do, then the definition is pretty much straightforward by extension or do we need a set criteria for CAF also? I don’t think so do you? So to the point, the only expertise we have here is CAF?
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Guys-

We’re here to answer the question asked by a hello non-Catholic.

Try not to confirm everything he’s heard about us. 😉
 
Randy_Carson said:
Guys-

We’re here to answer the question asked by a hello non-Catholic.

Try not to confirm everything he’s heard about us. 😉
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Excellent suggestion. To get back to the OP question, for clarity read the following:
How To Answer Muslims by Catholic Answers.

Not Peace But a Sword by Robert Spencer
The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam, also by Robert Spencer

All are available at the Catholic Answers bookstore: shop.catholic.com/beginning-a…r-muslims.html
 
Ignatius said:
Excellent suggestion. To get back to the OP question, for clarity read the following:
How To Answer Muslims by Catholic Answers.

Not Peace But a Sword by Robert Spencer
The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam, also by Robert Spencer

All are available at the Catholic Answers bookstore: shop.catholic.com/beginning-a…r-muslims.html
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Mr. Spencer is no more qualified to be deemed an expert on Islam than Mr. Slick is to be deemed an expert on Catholicism. The fact that Mr. Spencer had to get the vast majority of his works published by a publishing company that specializes in secular conservative politics should be a good indication of his lack of actual creditability.
 
Ignatius said:
In addition to his books, I have also found some additional audio and Q&A’s in Islam from Catholic Answers, Zenit, Franciscan University at Steubenville and EWTN. Four very reliable sources!

catholic.com/search/content/Spencer%2C%20Robert

ewtn.com/library/CHISTORY/zaftcrus.htm

**Fr. A. G. Sertillanges - “Walking with Jesus in the Holy Land” **bookmark9888.mp3
Host - Doug Keck and Robert Spencer

youtube.com/watch?v=UZBXHxHbZZE
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Do you also happen to have links for the usage of Mr. Spencer’s books by the Vatican’s Office of Interreligious Dialogue?
 
oldcatholicguy said:
Ignatius;12474412:
In addition to his books, I have also found some additional audio and Q&A’s in Islam from Catholic Answers, Zenit, Franciscan University at Steubenville and EWTN. Four very reliable sources!

catholic.com/search/content/Spencer%2C%20Robert
Click to expand...
ewtn.com/library/CHISTORY/zaftcrus.htm

**Fr. A. G. Sertillanges - “Walking with Jesus in the Holy Land” **bookmark9888.mp3
Host - Doug Keck and Robert Spencer

youtube.com/watch?v=UZBXHxHbZZE

Do you also happen to have links
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If you’ll notice, I have included links that have several other Catholic sources that are completely Faithful to The Magisterium.
I understand that your interpretation i different, that’s fine. If you’d like to post opposing views, well that’s what the Catholic Answers forum is for.
When you do, rest assured that I will continue provide many additional Catholic sources.
 
Ignatius said:
If you’ll notice, I have included links that have several other Catholic sources that are completely Faithful to The Magisterium.
I understand that your interpretation i different, that’s fine. If you’d like to post opposing views, well that’s what the Catholic Answers forum is for.
When you do, rest assured that I will continue provide many additional Catholic sources.
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So no, you don’t have links to Mr. Spencer’s works being used or promoted by the organization within the Church that, unlike the ones you listed, actually specialize in Islam and Catholic relations with Muslims. Trying to say that his works must be ok because they are sold by CAF is appealing to authority. CAF, last I checked, dealt with and was allowed to deal with Catholicism and defending it from claims against it. Its approved mission wasn’t to instruct Catholics on what other faiths teach and our relationship with them.
 
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