Police: Approximately 20 dead inside Florida nightclub after mass shooting

[Thorolfr]

Sometimes political points need to be made. Obama wasted no time in attributing this event to “hatred” (as in “hate crime”) and guns. It’s madness to imagine that this event was about “homophobia”. Hatred of homosexuals is only one part of a broader Sharia-based ideology. San Bernardino was in no way about homosexuality. It was about “infidels”. Homosexuals are only one kind of “infidel”.

Yes, yes, we all know that the attack was about Islam and that a white non-Muslim American could never have done any thing like that…

A heavily armed man who said he was heading to a Los Angeles-area pride parade was arrested early on Sunday in nearby Santa Monica, but there was no apparent link with the deadly mass shooting in Florida, authorities said.

Officers responding to a call from a member of the public found James Howell of Indiana sitting in a car with Indiana plates alongside three assault rifles and high capacity magazines, Santa Monica Police Department said.

He also had a five-gallon (19-liter) bucket with chemicals that could be used to make an improvised explosive device, the police department said in a statement.

reuters.com/article/us-florida-shooting-california-idUSKCN0YY0TY

 

[Arizona_Mike]

A tweet from Donald Trump:
**
appreciate the congrats for being right on radical Islamic terrorism.
**
As we all know, everything is about Donald, never about anyone else, certainly not about the victims of the tragedy in Orlando. If he can score political points in the midst of this, he’ll do it.

It looks like you cherry-picked part of Trump’s tweet to try to make your point. The full tweet was:

Appreciate the congrats for being right on radical Islamic terrorism, I don’t want congrats, I want toughness & vigilance. We must be smart!

Trump’s initial tweet was

**Really bad shooting in Orlando. Police investigating possible terrorism. Many people dead and wounded. **

He followed this with a request for prayers:

**Horrific incident in FL. Praying for all the victims & their families. When will this stop? When will we get tough, smart & vigilant? **

The above tweet is similar to the one that Hillary sent, although at least Trump suggested prayer rather than just “thoughts”.

**Woke up to hear the devastating news from FL. As we wait for more information, my thoughts are with those affected by this horrific act. -H **

The tweet you excerpted was his third tweet, and was in response to tweets that said he and been prescient in seeing this coming. His follow-on comment, which you did not include, seem appropriate in that it was a call to action rather than self-congratulation.

 

[7_Sorrows]

A tweet from Donald Trump:

As we all know, everything is about Donald, never about anyone else, certainly not about the victims of the tragedy in Orlando. If he can score political points in the midst of this, he’ll do it.

he is only pointing out his stance on terrorism and how the Obama administration has dropped the ball. it is not all about Donald. this is an election year and he is a political candidate.

 

[7_Sorrows]

It looks like you cherry-picked part of Trump’s tweet to try to make your point. The full tweet was:

Appreciate the congrats for being right on radical Islamic terrorism, I don’t want congrats, I want toughness & vigilance. We must be smart!

Trump’s initial tweet was

**Really bad shooting in Orlando. Police investigating possible terrorism. Many people dead and wounded. **

He followed this with a request for prayers:

**Horrific incident in FL. Praying for all the victims & their families. When will this stop? When will we get tough, smart & vigilant? **

The above tweet is similar to the one that Hillary sent, although at least Trump suggested prayer rather than just “thoughts”.

Woke up to hear the devastating news from FL. As we wait for more information, my thoughts are with those affected by this horrific act. -H

The tweet you excerpted was his third tweet, and was in response to tweets that said he and been prescient in seeing this coming. His follow-on comment, which you did not include, seem appropriate in that it was a call to action rather than self-congratulation.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

The trouble, of course, is that Mateen was a US-born citizen. He wasn’t a recent immigrant who might be affected by the immigration policy of the next President.

I am aware of that, he was the child of Islamic immigrants. I am also aware that he idolized other extremist immigrants such as those involved in the Boston bombings. We are still unaware of the possible training and support he received from other immigrants within the U.S.

What’s interesting to me is that this man, who has a violent history and was questioned by the FBI about ISIS, worked as an armed security guard and legally owned weapons that could murder 50 people. I find this incredibly odd.

It’s also worth questioning if the administration’s policies that limit the amount of time that the FBI is allowed to conduct an investigation of terrorism subjects and other AG restrictions unduly limited their ability to fully investigate the killer.

 

[OneSheep]

Let’s keep our focus on prayer too!

Well, I can think of a gun law that would have made it harder for him to do this. First of all, the gunman was mentally unstable, so he never should have been allowed to buy a gun. Of course, anyone can have someone else buy a gun for them, but Florida’s gun laws are very lax, and semiautomatic assault weapons are still allowed for sale. Why on Earth does anyone not doing a mass killing need a semi-automatic assault weapon?

What would have stopped the killing is for the gunman to have forgiven his enemies. We can remember that we reap what we sow. If we sow forgiveness, we are sure to reap the same. For those of us close to the victims, it will be some time before there is a readiness for such forgiveness.

Let us pray for the victims, and their families and loved ones. Let us pray for our enemies too.

Absolutely and completely untrue! The Orlando shooter possessed a “Security Officer” license in Florida. He also possessed a “Statewide Firearms License” in Florida. IOW, he passed all background checks. No gun law could have prevented this…try again!

***Peace, Mark ***

Hi Mark,

So, the guy’s ex says he is bipolar, and co-workers reported him (more than once) to the FBI. He had some connection to a suicide bomber, was investigated, but it was determined that there was nothing material. At least one co-worker quit his job because of harassment, and several reported him to authorities about his talk of killing people.

If he passed all the background checks, then in my opinion, the background checks were totally insufficient. So yes, a better gun law and better enforcement could have stopped him from buying a gun, which means he would have had to get a gun from someone else, or steal one. Since he was described as a loner, and I think that most ordinary folk would be very hesitant about buying a gun for a stranger, his action would have been at least inhibited. If he were to have a friend buy a gun for him, then there would have been complicity, and chances are he would not have wanted a friend to go through the aftermath. Most mass murderers are loners.

I know a guy who is mentally unstable and has to have every latest weapon, he has large arsenal. A background check on him would definitely indicate that he was fired from his job for reasons including his extremely hot temper.

At the very least, given previous reports to the FBI about Mateen, his recent purchase should have triggered some kind of inquiry or probe, it was way to easy for him to do this. I know, this puts the government into more of a “big brother” position, but gun ownership is out of control!!

And remember, this tragedy could have been stopped if the gunman had forgiven his enemies. ** It would behoove all of us to live in a society, in a world, that believed in forgiveness of enemies.**

In the mean time, let us continue to pray…

 

[Crossbones]

he is only pointing out his stance on terrorism and how the Obama administration has dropped the ball. it is not all about Donald. this is an election year and he is a political candidate.

What policy could President Obama have implemented to prevent this?

Mateen was a US born citizen, so no immigration policy change would have mattered.

Mateen was talked to by the FBI about ties with ISIS, but wasn’t charged with any crime and was allowed to keep his high powered weapons and his armed security job. Should the government interceded at that point?

About the only thing that could have been done would be to restrict ownership of the type of weapons Mateen used.

Am I missing something else that should be done here?

 

[Brendan]

A tweet from Donald Trump:

As we all know, everything is about Donald, never about anyone else, certainly not about the victims of the tragedy in Orlando. If he can score political points in the midst of this, he’ll do it.

How about posting the full tweet

Appreciate the congrats for being right on radical Islamic terrorism, I don’t want congrats, I want toughness & vigilance. We must be smart!

And the one right before it

Horrific incident in FL. Praying for all the victims & their families. When will this stop? When will we get tough, smart & vigilant?

 

[meltzerboy]

If the security guards there had been armed, they would have had a tactical advantage against the gunman in knowing the layout of the club much better (whereas the gunman would have had at best only a cursory knowledge), knowing positions of cover and concealment, and being used to operating in the deafening, disorienting barrage of music and lights that exist in a disco/nightclub.

Why weren’t the security guards armed? I was talking about the people at the club: their being armed might have resulted in mass chaos and shootings as well.

 

[Crossbones]

I am aware of that, he was the child of Islamic immigrants. I am also aware that he idolized other extremist immigrants such as those involved in the Boston bombings. We are still unaware of the possible training and support he received from other immigrants within the U.S.

We’ll have to wait and see on this, of course. But given that he was an armed security guard, it is likely his training came as a result of his job, not because of support of immigrants.

It’s also worth questioning if the administration’s policies that limit the amount of time that the FBI is allowed to conduct an investigation of terrorism subjects and other AG restrictions unduly limited their ability to fully investigate the killer.

We will need to learn more about this. Again, the most interesting thing to me is that he is a wife-beater and someone questioned by the FBI, but he worked as an armed security guard and legally held high capacity assault rifles.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Yes, yes, we all know that the attack was about Islam and that a white American could never have done any thing like that…

QUOTE]

Mateen looks pretty “white” to me. Remember, most Afghans and Pakistanis are “Caucasian”. It’s not a matter of “race”.

 

[Thorolfr]

How about posting the full tweet

And the one right before it

Doesn’t make much difference. He’s still trying to make political hay for himself out of this tragedy.

[Republican] Party operatives had hoped Trump would remain silent on the attacks so as not to politicize the tragedy in Orlando. Those hoping for a change in tone from the presumptive GOP nominee, however, were likely disappointed by a tweet Trump sent Sunday thanking supporters for “congratulating” him for being right.

nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-set-address-terrorism-clinton-record-monday-speech-n590766

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Yes, yes, we all know that the attack was about Islam and that a white non-Muslim American could never have done any thing like that…

reuters.com/article/us-florida-shooting-california-idUSKCN0YY0TY

It looks like the initial statement that was tweeted
by the police (that he was on his way to the gay pride rally to attack it) was incorrect, by the way. From statements in the L.A. Times article, the man was gay himself and was seeking out another man at the rally, quite possibly in an attempt to do harm to him and/or others, but it doesn’t sound like his motivations were right-wing Christian homophobia. On the contrary, he was a gay man with some serious mental problems:

Per today’s L.A. Times article:

Santa Monica Police Chief Jacqueline Seabrooks initially said on Twitter that during the arrest, the suspect told one of her officers “of wanting to harm Gay Pride event.”

But Lt. Saul Rodriguez, a Santa Monica police spokesman, said later that the tweet was a misstatement and that Seabrooks had been given incorrect information. Howell told investigators that he was going to the Pride festival but did not make additional statements about his intentions, Rodriguez said.

(…)

At a news conference Sunday afternoon, police stressed that they were still trying to determine what Howell planned to do with the weapons.

Later in the article:

Howell was charged in October 2015 with intimidation with a deadly weapon and pointing a loaded firearm at another person, according to Indiana court and police records.

Howell allegedly pointed a gun at two people, according to reports released by the Charlestown Police Department.

In the first case, on Oct. 14, an ex-boyfriend alleged that Howell had pointed an AR-style rifle at him, though Howell denied that and said he had kept the gun up on his shoulder. Howell was arrested the next day after neighbors called police to report that Howell had pointed a gun at one of them.

On April 19, Howell pleaded guilty to misdemeanor intimidation and prosecutors dropped the pointing a firearm charge. Court records show he was sentenced to a year in state prison and placed on probation. Under the deal, he agreed to forfeit all weapons while he was on probation.

Reached by phone Sunday, Howell’s ex-boyfriend Richard Hambrick said Howell had at least four firearms.

“He likes his guns,” Hambrick said.

Howell’s friend and fellow car club member Joseph Greeson, 18, said Howell was bisexual and didn’t harbor any ill will towards gays or lesbians.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

What policy could President Obama have implemented to prevent this?

Mateen was a US born citizen, so no immigration policy change would have mattered.

Mateen was talked to by the FBI about ties with ISIS, but wasn’t charged with any crime and was allowed to keep his high powered weapons and his armed security job. Should the government interceded at that point?

About the only thing that could have been done would be to restrict ownership of the type of weapons Mateen used.

Am I missing something else that should be done here?

Loosen the AG requirements that the administration has placed on the FBI in counterterrorism investigations.

 

[Crossbones]

Loosen the AG requirements that the administration has placed on the FBI in counterterrorism investigations.

Of course, we would need some evidence that this made a difference in this case, right?

 

[Arizona_Mike]

We’ll have to wait and see on this, of course. But given that he was an armed security guard, it is likely his training came as a result of his job, not because of support of immigrants.

Have you seen the level of training security guards receive on firearms use???

We will need to learn more about this. Again, the most interesting thing to me is that he is a wife-beater and someone questioned by the FBI, but he worked as an armed security guard and legally held high capacity assault rifles.

Did the wife file a complaint against him for DV?

 

[Ridgerunner]

What policy could President Obama have implemented to prevent this?

Mateen was a US born citizen, so no immigration policy change would have mattered.

Mateen was talked to by the FBI about ties with ISIS, but wasn’t charged with any crime and was allowed to keep his high powered weapons and his armed security job. Should the government interceded at that point?

About the only thing that could have been done would be to restrict ownership of the type of weapons Mateen used.

Am I missing something else that should be done here?

Restricting the law abiding from exercising their Second Amendment rights will not do anything to stop the criminal or the terrorist. If Mateen could go out on the street and buy heroin, which he could have easily done, there is no reason to think he couldn’t have bought an “illegal” gun as well.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Of course, we would need some evidence that this made a difference in this case, right?

I think we already have it…

 

[Thorolfr]

Thorolfr;13968369:

Yes, yes, we all know that the attack was about Islam and that a white American could never have done any thing like that…

Mateen looks pretty “white” to me. Remember, most Afghans and Pakistanis are “Caucasian”. It’s not a matter of “race”.

Most Pakistanis and Afghanis I know consider themselves to be people of color. All you have to do is go to a place like Britain that has a large minority population of Indians and Pakistanis and many white Brits there, especially in the past, usually considered them to be “black” or “Asian”.

 

[meltzerboy]

Loosen the AG requirements that the administration has placed on the FBI in counterterrorism investigations.

Why were these tight requirements in place to begin with? This is the first I have heard of this. Is there a link regarding what the specific requirements are?

The Obama administration is quite tough when it comes to deportation of immigrants as well as drone attacks; why is it lax with regard to counterterrorism?