Police: Approximately 20 dead inside Florida nightclub after mass shooting

[grotto]

---

Gee, would that mean someone was Amish?

 

[7_Sorrows]

What policy could President Obama have implemented to prevent this?

Mateen was a US born citizen, so no immigration policy change would have mattered.

Mateen was talked to by the FBI about ties with ISIS, but wasn’t charged with any crime and was allowed to keep his high powered weapons and his armed security job. Should the government interceded at that point?

About the only thing that could have been done would be to restrict ownership of the type of weapons Mateen used.

Am I missing something else that should be done here?

how many mass shootings have happened during the Obama administration? I think that is the answer you are missing.

 

[Faith1960]

Let’s keep our focus on prayer too!

Hi Mark,

So, the guy’s ex says he is bipolar, and co-workers reported him (more than once) to the FBI. He had some connection to a suicide bomber, was investigated, but it was determined that there was nothing material. At least one co-worker quit his job because of harassment, and several reported him to authorities about his talk of killing people.

If he passed all the background checks, then in my opinion, the background checks were totally insufficient. So yes, a better gun law and better enforcement could have stopped him from buying a gun, which means he would have had to get a gun from someone else, or steal one. Since he was described as a loner, and I think that most ordinary folk would be very hesitant about buying a gun for a stranger, his action would have been at least inhibited. If he were to have a friend buy a gun for him, then there would have been complicity, and chances are he would not have wanted a friend to go through the aftermath. Most mass murderers are loners.

I know a guy who is mentally unstable and has to have every latest weapon, he has large arsenal. A background check on him would definitely indicate that he was fired from his job for reasons including his extremely hot temper.

.

Have YOU reported him?

 

[mikekle]

Because their act are directly related to their faith. I have yet to hear of ONE catholic that has murdered 50 people and used Catholicism as a reason. This myth that Christianity is every bit as evil as Islam is just that, a myth.

Not in modern times, but back in OT times, when it was law to kill even for blasphemy, or homosexual activity, among other things, we have no way of knowing how many people died as a result of people following these laws…right?

 

[FollowChrist34]

Well, in some cases it was true, right? In others, not. Very murky territory. It was a very tight, tight-lipped community, right (Catholic nationalistic community in NI) - in a political situation much closer to real oppression, injustice in my mind. I don’t think Muslims in the US are really in that exact same situation. This is more about a cultural conflict - different values, Islam v. the West. That said, I believe there is quite a parallel there: the radical Muslim / mosque scenario vs. Catholic support in NI for the IRA, grass roots, local level.

And, of course, there is much more hard evidence (films, tapes, testimony, crimes) to confirm the link of violence to radical Imams in the US and Europe. To me the real question is why did the FBI drop off of trailing this guy. Very often a radical Imam is a beacon for up and coming terrorists. If we had the info…what happened. It is like the Boston attack. We had the info, knowledge. There was an established pattern in the guy’s behavior: he was a radical Islamist; they knew it at his job. No one wanted to appear intolerant or judgmental - the politically correct code. If someone had stepped up, those people would all still be alive.

 

[Thorolfr]

At least, we agree people should be allowed to practice their faith.

Sin is sin.

Even if their faith tells them that killing sinners in allowed?

 

[mafh]

Good question. Many of the nightclub bouncers I know are moonlighting police officers who legally carry. This club may not have used them. I don’t know what the Florida laws are on carrying in a place that serves liquor as an employee rather than a customer. In some states, security personnel and owners can arm themselves. It also depends on what the policy of the owners/management was.

I read an article that said the first officer on the scene was an off-duty police officer who was working security outside the club. He exchanged fire with the gunman after the first shots were fired.

 

[Tomdstone]

I have yet to hear of ONE catholic that has murdered 50 people and used Catholicism as a reason.

Miroslav Filipovic.

 

[Giggly_Giraffe]

Cowards! Mass murders are cowards.

They lack any ability to show manhood by facing a situation that they want to change. The terrorists who hijacked a plane to the twin towers were cowardly because the lacked any courage to declare an attack. Columbine’s Harris and Klebold lack courage to face the people they were jealous of. The Paris attacks … To cowardly to boldly face an attack and basically shoot people in the back. All of these mass murders have one thing in common … Cowards.

I like old western’s and the criminal code of conduct … Don’t shoot me in the back … Face the situation and if you have to die, then you have died with honor. Our Jesus faced his situation. He could have cowardly run from the solders, he faced a trial, and he faced death with honor … Not as a coward.

 

[Convert_in_99]

Cowards! Mass murders are cowards.

They lack any ability to show manhood by facing a situation that they want to change. The terrorists who hijacked a plane to the twin towers were cowardly because the lacked any courage to declare an attack. Columbine’s Harris and Klebold lack courage to face the people they were jealous of. The Paris attacks … To cowardly to boldly face an attack and basically shoot people in the back. All of these mass murders have one thing in common … Cowards.

I like old western’s and the criminal code of conduct … Don’t shoot me in the back … Face the situation and if you have to die, then you have died with honor. Our Jesus faced his situation. He could have cowardly run from the solders, he faced a trial, and he faced death with honor … Not as a coward.

Butting in your debate with a word of caution: This “cowardice” you speak of can apply only to those who know fully what they are doing.

Many serial killers are moderately to severely mentally ill. That would lessen their culpability some or even all.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

So Jharek, if I understand you correctly, you are saying it is appropriate to target those who attend mosques that do teach hatred, just not mosques in general?

In the killer’s case, he attended a mosque run by Marcus Dwayne Robertson, aka Abu Taubah, a felon who converted to radical Islam in prison before forming the Fundamental Islamic Knowledge Seminary (now the Timbuktu Seminary). Robertson, a convicted bank robber, was a bodyguard to the blind Sheikh Abdel Rahman, who masterminded the first attack on the World Trade Center in 1993. Robertson has preached violence against homosexuals in his seminary. Prosecutors said wiretaps from 2011 showed that Robertson instructed one of his students, Jonathan Paul Jimenez, to file false tax returns to obtain a tax refund to pay for travel to Mauritania for terror training.

Jimenez studied with Robertson for a year in preparation for his travel to Mauritania, where he would study and further his training in killing, suicide bombing, and identifying and murdering U.S. military personnel. He pleaded guilty in 2012 to lying to authorities and conspiring to defraud the IRS and was sentenced to 10 years in federal prison.

2 days before the nightclub attack, the nightclub shooter attended the Islamic Center of Fort Pierce with Imam Shafiq Rahman, according to The Washington Post.

That mosque was frequented by American-born suicide bomber Monar abu Salha, who blew himself up in Syria in 2014, and the two knew each other, according to officials. Mateen’s association with Salha led the FBI to interview him in 2014. Rep. Michael McCaul, chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee Mike McCaul told Fox News law enforcement determined at the time their contact “was minimal.”

I don’t think this guy was your run-of-the-mill “homophobe.”

 

[meltzerboy]

It’s always good to have a broader, European perspective on the issue of terrorism. Your point is well taken.

 

[1990Domer]

I don’t know the destination of souls. God does. I know a couple things. Having been active in the gay club scene in my youth I know who and what goes on there. I also know how God directs us to get to heaven.

It makes the club shooting way more tragic than say someone walking into a church with 24 hour adoration and killing 50 adorers.

The reason is that we tend to focus on the secular part of life not the eternal. 50 souls who were in a den of sin. Does that mean all were sinning? No. But perhaps it should give us pause in our own lives. The party we get drunk at. The cohabitating or contracepting or adulterous couple. The anger we ace on our own hearts when driving in traffic. The fact is that we have done a poor job as a religion of evangelizing. So when this happens it should actually strike us harder than our own kind getting thier heads chopped off in the Middle East. Because salvation is a goal to strive for and rarely is it found inside a gay club.

We should be reminded of our own sinfulness because if this. Confession and conversion and evangelization. These are things we fail at as a faith.

Well spoken and a reflection of our readings this past weekend. Our pastor spoke exactly of what you wrote. Where we at the same Mass? The congregation was so moved that they literally clapped (I know, a litergical no no, but that was how inspiring the sermon was). God bless you for your reflection. May many more of us also self-examine ourselves and our actions. God is fair and the eternal judge!

 

[shockerfan]

Miroslav Filipovic.

Impressive. However, he died in 1946…any newer examples?

 

[grotto]

So Jharek, if I understand you correctly, you are saying it is appropriate to target those who attend mosques that do teach hatred, just not mosques in general?

In the killer’s case, he attended a mosque run by Marcus Dwayne Robertson, aka Abu Taubah, a felon who converted to radical Islam in prison before forming the Fundamental Islamic Knowledge Seminary (now the Timbuktu Seminary). Robertson, a convicted bank robber, was a bodyguard to the blind Sheikh Abdel Rahman, who masterminded the first attack on the World Trade Center in 1993. Robertson has preached violence against homosexuals in his seminary. Prosecutors said wiretaps from 2011 showed that Robertson instructed one of his students, Jonathan Paul Jimenez, to file false tax returns to obtain a tax refund to pay for travel to Mauritania for terror training.

Jimenez studied with Robertson for a year in preparation for his travel to Mauritania, where he would study and further his training in killing, suicide bombing, and identifying and murdering U.S. military personnel. He pleaded guilty in 2012 to lying to authorities and conspiring to defraud the IRS and was sentenced to 10 years in federal prison.

2 days before the nightclub attack, the nightclub shooter attended the Islamic Center of Fort Pierce with Imam Shafiq Rahman, according to The Washington Post.

That mosque was frequented by American-born suicide bomber Monar abu Salha, who blew himself up in Syria in 2014, and the two knew each other, according to officials. Mateen’s association with Salha led the FBI to interview him in 2014. Rep. Michael McCaul, chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee Mike McCaul told Fox News law enforcement determined at the time their contact “was minimal.”

I don’t think this guy was your run-of-the-mill “homophobe.”

---

Whoa Nellie! AZ Mike your info has been very reliable in other posts, I must say this post is a bright shining research piece that removes the category of “inspiration” for a lone wolf angry with SSA folks.

Now, how did the FBI miss all these links when it was determined the investigation was not necessary to continue? Who decided the finale? My suspicion is that the direction to cease pursuing this individual was based on his being Muslim. Could this be possible?

 

[Giggly_Giraffe]

Butting in your debate with a word of caution: This “cowardice” you speak of can apply only to those who know fully what they are doing.

Many serial killers are moderately to severely mentally ill. That would lessen their culpability some or even all.

The whole ISIS plan is based on attack of civilians without the civilians ability to defend themselves - cowardly!

Mentally ill or not, it’s the cowardly inclination that leads them to do mass murders. In this recent case, the patrons of the club are now the martyrdoms.

 

[1990Domer]

Do you think that your feeling concerning this massacre and the victims have more to do with your personal history? Being in an LGBTQ nightclub is not a sin. My daughter, who is 31 and lives in Santa’s Monica told me this morning that many straight people patronize gay clubs too, especially if the music and dancing are good. To continue, unless people are openly having sex on the dance floor, what is to be afraid of? The Church does not indicate that being gay is a sin in itself. Hopefully some kind of hope will reveal itself after the initial shock is over. In my heart, I pray than those who still hold LGBTQ individuals to be inferior and freaks will realize that humans are humans and their sexual orientation is just one component of their personality. When I read what the ignorant It. Governor of Texas wrote, quoting from the OT, this morning, I was physically sick. Of course, he immediately deleted the comment. Pat Robertson also put a message up that indicated that gay humans deserve whatever horrible incident or disease that might befall them. What wonderful followers of the Gospels these two are. This has to stop. There are so many sins that are far worse than the sexual ones that still continue to be the focus of old school Catholics, such as racism, homophobia, and the rampant belief that those who follow a religion other than Christianity are going to hell. The biggest sin of all, according to my pea sized brain, is teaching your children to fear and hate those who are different.

First, if you are Catholic, frequenting a nightclub as such you described could be considered a sin of scandal. You are passively saying “the possible sins of this lifestyle are ok in the eyes of a faithful Catholic.” They are not.

Second, when all fear and hate is eradicated from our society–and I am talking about people with special needs, the homeless, the poor, etc–then I can fully agree with you. Sadly, you seem to think the LGBTQ community has special grip on hate. They don’t. I assure you. My son and his special needs counterparts have experienced plenty of fear, hate, intolerance and ostracization. What they lack is a well organized and well fun advocacy group. SMH.

 

[meltzerboy]

So Jharek, if I understand you correctly, you are saying it is appropriate to target those who attend mosques that do teach hatred, just not mosques in general?

In the killer’s case, he attended a mosque run by Marcus Dwayne Robertson, aka Abu Taubah, a felon who converted to radical Islam in prison before forming the Fundamental Islamic Knowledge Seminary (now the Timbuktu Seminary). Robertson, a convicted bank robber, was a bodyguard to the blind Sheikh Abdel Rahman, who masterminded the first attack on the World Trade Center in 1993. Robertson has preached violence against homosexuals in his seminary. Prosecutors said wiretaps from 2011 showed that Robertson instructed one of his students, Jonathan Paul Jimenez, to file false tax returns to obtain a tax refund to pay for travel to Mauritania for terror training.

Jimenez studied with Robertson for a year in preparation for his travel to Mauritania, where he would study and further his training in killing, suicide bombing, and identifying and murdering U.S. military personnel. He pleaded guilty in 2012 to lying to authorities and conspiring to defraud the IRS and was sentenced to 10 years in federal prison.

2 days before the nightclub attack, the nightclub shooter attended the Islamic Center of Fort Pierce with Imam Shafiq Rahman, according to The Washington Post.

That mosque was frequented by American-born suicide bomber Monar abu Salha, who blew himself up in Syria in 2014, and the two knew each other, according to officials. Mateen’s association with Salha led the FBI to interview him in 2014. Rep. Michael McCaul, chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee Mike McCaul told Fox News law enforcement determined at the time their contact “was minimal.”

I don’t think this guy was your run-of-the-mill “homophobe.”

It appears he was not. I just heard he was planning on setting off explosives or a mass shooting at Disney World as well.

 

[Convert_in_99]

The whole ISIS plan is based on attack of civilians without the civilians ability to defend themselves - cowardly!

Mentally ill or not, it’s the cowardly inclination that leads them to do mass murders. In this recent case, the patrons of the club are now the martyrdoms.

Cowardice is a form of fear. Fear is one of the driving forces of mental illness. Please don’t group those into the same category as those who do these hateful crimes out of sheer malice.

From what I’ve read about this individual, there didn’t appear to be mental illness involved. But it is often a factor that reduces culpability. It truly is. If my severely autistic nephew went out and shot 50 people (God forbid) it would be purely innocent, rather than a hate crime that is planned an sought after.

 

[Darryl1958]

So Jharek, if I understand you correctly, you are saying it is appropriate to target those who attend mosques that do teach hatred, just not mosques in general?

In the killer’s case, he attended a mosque run by Marcus Dwayne Robertson, aka Abu Taubah, a felon who converted to radical Islam in prison before forming the Fundamental Islamic Knowledge Seminary (now the Timbuktu Seminary). Robertson, a convicted bank robber, was a bodyguard to the blind Sheikh Abdel Rahman, who masterminded the first attack on the World Trade Center in 1993. Robertson has preached violence against homosexuals in his seminary. Prosecutors said wiretaps from 2011 showed that Robertson instructed one of his students, Jonathan Paul Jimenez, to file false tax returns to obtain a tax refund to pay for travel to Mauritania for terror training.

Jimenez studied with Robertson for a year in preparation for his travel to Mauritania, where he would study and further his training in killing, suicide bombing, and identifying and murdering U.S. military personnel. He pleaded guilty in 2012 to lying to authorities and conspiring to defraud the IRS and was sentenced to 10 years in federal prison.

2 days before the nightclub attack, the nightclub shooter attended the Islamic Center of Fort Pierce with Imam Shafiq Rahman, according to The Washington Post.

That mosque was frequented by American-born suicide bomber Monar abu Salha, who blew himself up in Syria in 2014, and the two knew each other, according to officials. Mateen’s association with Salha led the FBI to interview him in 2014. Rep. Michael McCaul, chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee Mike McCaul told Fox News law enforcement determined at the time their contact “was minimal.”

I don’t think this guy was your run-of-the-mill “homophobe.”

Rico laws ought to apply to mosques that have been identified as Islamist.

Here the mosque is the property of a criminal organization, and ought to be both targetted and have all materials confiscated, including the mosque and real estate that the mosque was built upon.