Police: Approximately 20 dead inside Florida nightclub after mass shooting

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Expatreprocedit said:
Less availability of guns and less tolerance of gun use might have prevented this. We will never know. But it would make this and similar atrocities less likely, to some degree. That’s enough for me.

What we are dealing with above all else is a mentality. In the US now, there is a prevalent mentality that guns are an acceptable means to personal power, to personal and societal “security”, and, in some communities and subcultures, even to settlement of personal disputes. The US is opting to go back to the society that prevailed in the 19th century western frontier. That might have been necessary in that time and place, and it’s made for some great TV shows and movies over the years, but in the present day US, it’s is an unmistakeable sign of societal disintegration.

Bottom line: the easy availability of guns in this country is a great enabler of terrorist acts. I’d like to see someone dispute that.
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You know what else “might” have worked?
Evangelizing this young man. Are you in favor of that? Last I checked the US was still not an Islamic state(yet)

Tell me what outreach to conversion to keep this from happening do you support.

My guess is an “ecumenical” statement.

You can look to the government. I believe the true way to end terrorism is through the CAtholic church.

When was the last time anybody here ever tried to spread the gospel to someone named “Omar”

But gun control might help? Please.
 
Good_Tidings said:
I think the fact that it was a popular gay club is no coincidence.
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What about the victims in San Bernardino? Helpers for disabled and gays represents a wide range with a great number of targets in between.

It simply looks like open season…
 
Neofight said:
So Trump’s election will make the country and the world better?
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I’m a Gary Johnson supporter. Johnson said he will define PP, cease the HHS Mandate, and overturn Roe v. Wade to the States (all for the secular reasons of reducing government). The same cannot be said for Hillary or her drinking-buddy-turned-controlled-opposition Trump.

If everyone owned guns, there would be no need for a SWAT team on every corner or our overblown military-industrial complex. Remember what that one Japanese officer in WWII said: “you could not invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass”.
 
JackVk said:
I’m a Gary Johnson supporter. Johnson said he will define PP, cease the HHS Mandate, and overturn Roe v. Wade to the States (all for the secular reasons of reducing government). The same cannot be said for Hillary or her drinking-buddy-turned-controlled-opposition Trump.

If everyone owned guns, there would be no need for a SWAT team on every corner or our overblown military-industrial complex. Remember what that one Japanese officer in WWII said: “you could not invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass”.
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Why not just cut out the middleman and Vote for Hillary?
 
JackVk said:
I’m a Gary Johnson supporter. Johnson said he will define PP, cease the HHS Mandate, and overturn Roe v. Wade to the States (all for the secular reasons of reducing government). The same cannot be said for Hillary or her drinking-buddy-turned-controlled-opposition Trump.

If everyone owned guns, there would be no need for a SWAT team on every corner or our overblown military-industrial complex. Remember what that one Japanese officer in WWII said: “you could not invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass”.
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You might want to check Gary Johnson our. He is pro abortion and pro gay marriage.
ontheissues.org/2012/Gary_Johnson_Abortion.htm
 
If ISIS or similar Islamists are ultimately behind this, then I think they’re very smart. 9-11 had (albeit temporarily) a unifying effect on the US, because the victims were seen as “Americans” first, before any other demographic label.

But the “target gays with guns during an already nasty election season” strategy seems to have worked great so far. It’s like a multiple choice test, with the distractor answer choices of gay rights and gun control in addition to the “Islamist threat” as the main socio-political issue that’s applicable to the massacre.

ETA: And speaking of 9-11. pretty much everyone agreed that “plane control” was a legitimate strategy to prevent that kind of terrorist act for happening again, though the actual performance (or lack thereof) of the TSA, to me is cause to doubt the idea that “gun control” really would prevent terror attacks. Possibly attacks such as this one, or the San Bernadino one. But the terrorists, I’m sure, will come up with another strategy eventually.
 
ToeInTheWater said:
If ISIS or similar Islamists are ultimately behind this, then I think they’re very smart. 9-11 had (albeit temporarily) a unifying effect on the US, because the victims were seen as “Americans” first, before any other demographic label.

But the “target gays with guns during an already nasty election season” strategy seems to have worked great so far. It’s like a multiple choice test, with the distractor answer choices of gay rights and gun control in addition to the “Islamist threat” as the main socio-political issue that’s applicable to the massacre.
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This will help Trump. I don’t know how much, but it will help.
 
Sy_Noe said:
So citizenry should have an arsenal of tanks and nukes and every other weapon the government possesses today in the 21st century?
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As a last-resort check against government tyranny, the 2nd amendment is more or less just as effective today as it was when the amendment was written. Remember Vietnam: vast and widespread populations of entrenched and desperate gun owners are more or less unassailable. Killing a thousand angry gun-wielding homemakers only makes the millions remaining even angrier. ‘Gaining ground’ doesn’t accomplish anything if they outnumber the military 100 to 1 and immediately fill in wherever it stretches itself thin. Any situation where thousands try to control rebellious millions by force is precarious; if a majority of the millions is armed it’s impossible–regardless of nukes and tanks. For what it’s worth, this particular argument remains as good today as when farmhand flintlock rifles were theoretically pitted against warships and heavy artillery. Whether or not it’s a precaution that’s worth what it’s costing the U.S. today is another question. It’s a balance between potentially saving lives today and potentially saving many lives in the future.

Meandered off topic… Praying for victims of the shooting.
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
I’d love to see the gun law that would have stopped this…

So many people want to contraband guns. Funny how they are never the people who want to secure the border or patrol the coastlines for people sneaking stuff in. Brilliant plan. Outlaw something and then make sure to not secure the population from access…
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Well, I can think of a gun law that would have made it harder for him to do this. First of all, the gunman was mentally unstable, so he never should have been allowed to buy a gun. Of course, anyone can have someone else buy a gun for them, but Florida’s gun laws are very lax, and semiautomatic assault weapons are still allowed for sale. Why on Earth does anyone not doing a mass killing need a semi-automatic assault weapon?

What would have stopped the killing is for the gunman to have forgiven his enemies. We can remember that we reap what we sow. If we sow forgiveness, we are sure to reap the same. For those of us close to the victims, it will be some time before there is a readiness for such forgiveness.

Let us pray for the victims, and their families and loved ones. Let us pray for our enemies too.
 
The shooter pledged loyalty to ISIS in the 911 call…cnn.com/

He was a domestic terrorist, radical Islam. These people know how to access and use weapons. Let’s give the gun restrictions vs rights thing a rest, at least long enough to mourn for the victims of another heinous act of terrorism on our own soil - the worst in the nation’s history.
 
Lea101 said:
We should also support gun control.
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Most of the mass shootings happen in gun-free zones. What exactly is it about gun control laws that is so special criminals will break all the others but follow that one.
 
OneSheep said:
W. Why on Earth does anyone not doing a mass killing need a semi-automatic assault weapon? .
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To shoot people doing a mass shooting. Best defense during an LA riot situation.

Conveniently, the shooter selected a gun-free zone to pick a place to murder people. Where, you know, no one can shoot back.
 
FollowChrist34 said:
The shooter pledged loyalty to ISIS in the 911 call…cnn.com/

He was a domestic terrorist, radical Islam. These people know how to access and use weapons. Let’s give the gun restrictions vs rights thing a rest, at least long enough to mourn for the victims of another heinous act of terrorism on our own soil - the worst in the nation’s history.
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Gun control just at the end of the day just means that people who follow the law don’t have guns.

Also, 9-11 was much worse in terms of casualties than this.
 
OneSheep said:
Well, I can think of a gun law that would have made it harder for him to do this. First of all, the gunman was mentally unstable, so he never should have been allowed to buy a gun. Of course, anyone can have someone else buy a gun for them, but Florida’s gun laws are very lax, and semiautomatic assault weapons are still allowed for sale. Why on Earth does anyone not doing a mass killing need a semi-automatic assault weapon?

What would have stopped the killing is for the gunman to have forgiven his enemies. We can remember that we reap what we sow. If we sow forgiveness, we are sure to reap the same. For those of us close to the victims, it will be some time before there is a readiness for such forgiveness.

Let us pray for the victims, and their families and loved ones. Let us pray for our enemies too.
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He was mentally unstable?
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
I don’t know the destination of souls. God does. I know a couple things. Having been active in the gay club scene in my youth I know who and what goes on there. I also know how God directs us to get to heaven.

It makes the club shooting way more tragic than say someone walking into a church with 24 hour adoration and killing 50 adorers.

The reason is that we tend to focus on the secular part of life not the eternal. 50 souls who were in a den of sin. Does that mean all were sinning? No. But perhaps it should give us pause in our own lives. The party we get drunk at. The cohabitating or contracepting or adulterous couple. The anger we ace on our own hearts when driving in traffic. The fact is that we have done a poor job as a religion of evangelizing. So when this happens it should actually strike us harder than our own kind getting thier heads chopped off in the Middle East. Because salvation is a goal to strive for and rarely is it found inside a gay club.

We should be reminded of our own sinfulness because if this. Confession and conversion and evangelization. These are things we fail at as a faith.
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Do you think that your feeling concerning this massacre and the victims have more to do with your personal history? Being in an LGBTQ nightclub is not a sin. My daughter, who is 31 and lives in Santa’s Monica told me this morning that many straight people patronize gay clubs too, especially if the music and dancing are good. To continue, unless people are openly having sex on the dance floor, what is to be afraid of? The Church does not indicate that being gay is a sin in itself. Hopefully some kind of hope will reveal itself after the initial shock is over. In my heart, I pray than those who still hold LGBTQ individuals to be inferior and freaks will realize that humans are humans and their sexual orientation is just one component of their personality. When I read what the ignorant It. Governor of Texas wrote, quoting from the OT, this morning, I was physically sick. Of course, he immediately deleted the comment. Pat Robertson also put a message up that indicated that gay humans deserve whatever horrible incident or disease that might befall them. What wonderful followers of the Gospels these two are. This has to stop. There are so many sins that are far worse than the sexual ones that still continue to be the focus of old school Catholics, such as racism, homophobia, and the rampant belief that those who follow a religion other than Christianity are going to hell. The biggest sin of all, according to my pea sized brain, is teaching your children to fear and hate those who are different.
 
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