Political Correctness

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Zaccheus said:
I don’t want to organize morals around what offends other people. I want not to needlessly or pointlessly offend other people, nor to condone those who would shout down any protest of mistreatment with cries of “political correctness!”
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Great. The last bit is a little vague though because the protests of mistreatment can refer to many different things.
 
I begin to think we’re talking past each other, which means further discussion between us is likely to be unprofitable.

I acknowledge your right to your own beliefs, and I hope I have not given offense to you.

May God bless and keep you.
 
Zaccheus said:
You brought up the comparison to the Nazis.
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Yes but a comparison is not saying two things are exactly the same in all facets.

This is one of many errors I find with people on the Left.

I can compare a house and a tree and say they are the same height and same colour and perhaps even used for the same purpose if say a squirrel lives in a tree. In no way though am I saying a house is a tree. It is incorrect to assert that I have said that.
 
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Zaccheus said:
Hitler’s followers were mass murderers. Do you really see no difference between that and a gay man not wanting people to shout “Fag!” when he walks by, or a black man not wanting to hear the N-word, or a woman not wanting to endure endless cat-calls and crude propositions when she walks down the street? Because in part it’s that kind of thing people are complaining about.
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See the explanation of the tree and the house. What is being compared is the idea of offense and victimhood and the problem of using the state to control behaviour.
 
Gaslighting is one form of evil and manipulation I cannot deal with. You know the sort if you confront them with what they clearly stated, they will deny it and proclaim you’re misinterpreted what they clearly stated
 
Zaccheus said:
And if we were dealing with Hitler I’d agree with you. We’re not dealing with Hitler.
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My example does. If you are going to reply to my example then yes, you have to deal with Hitler’s socialists.
 
Zaccheus said:
I begin to think we’re talking past each other, which means further discussion between us is likely to be unprofitable.

I acknowledge your right to your own beliefs, and I hope I have not given offense to you.

May God bless and keep you.
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None of your comments offend me. I welcome your expressed views.

God bless you too.
 
I never said anything and I was speaking in general terms, which was the point I was making.

You mentioned intent and while agree that intent is important I have a question or two to ask. What if the words spoken were meant and intended to offend? What punishment should the offender undergo? Should they lose their job? I would agree this could be the case if the words spoken were made while working but off the job or even on social media, I don’t think so. Anyway, I digress. I ask again, should they lose their job? Should they be imprisoned? Should they be sent to a work camp? In other words what punishment should the offender undergo? Please explain.
It could be in reference to gays or anyone else for that matter, it doesn’t have to refer only to gays. You mentioned the word “innocent,” which I find very interesting. I will have to just say it then. If anyone, by chance, were to say anything racist or against gays then what punishment should they be forced to undergo? Financial ruin? Imprisonment? What?
I am not advocating for any speech like this at the moment but I am just wondering what the consequences of assaulting people with words should be. That’s all.
 
What punishment should the “offender” undergo? People advocating for censorship and political correctness can never seem to answer that question, but I assume that they believe there should be a punishment. They just want to say that they believe in free speech to make themselves look good but in reality they are against it because they believe there should be consequences for it.
 
Zaccheus, please answer a question. If anyone were to say those things then what punishment should they have to undergo? Loss of employment? Improsonment? Sentenced to a work camp? What?

I will add that I am not advocating for saying them but what punishment should there be for such a “crime?” I am only asking.
 
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It sounds like you think truth is a matter of perspective. That’s a dangerous road to travel and not a very happy one. It’s the foundation of subjectivism and moral relativism.

I truly believe that there are objective truths and objective morality. There are some that are more evident than others, but most can be arrived at or verified by critical thinking and reasoned argument. Sometimes that can be uncomfortable and offensive.

If you police speech and make certain subjects taboo, you’re hindering people from discovering the truth and ultimately do more harm than good. That’s why freedom of speech is so important, and not just in the legal sense. That’s why we need to tolerate offensive speech.

And there is a difference between courtesy and political correctness. It’s a mistake to think the two are the same. Political correctness dissuades a person from saying what he believes to be true simply because it may offend someone.
 
I was not thinking legally. More of in relationship, I think it’s fair grounds to not associate with someone if you find the manner they address you offensively
 
What’s the difference between common courtesy and political correctness?
 
What one person sees a passionate another sees as aggressive. What do you suppose someone does if and when they’re feeling offended? I think there is such thing as being too sensitive and there is such thing as being too brash. How people communicate is just as important as what is being said. Some people use the badge of offense to not consider whether what the other person is saying is true. Some people do use the truth as a weapon to humble or belittle others.
Should people never take offense at what is being said to them?
 
I think political correctness is destroying the depth in the relationships we used to have back in the days. Back in the days, we didn’t need to ‘walk on eggshells’ when talking with somebody, whence, leading to much more meaningful relationships, as we were able to go more in depth when talking some somebody.

Today’s society is all about me and myself. So, nobody is really seeing this fad of political correctness as a problem, since nobody really cares to engage in more meaningful relationships.

It gives people an idea that we are acting for a betterment of society, but what is really happening is that we are becoming more and more selfish. Since it also leads to the idea that what really matters is our own feelings, our own opinions about some certain subject, and not facts.
 
J_the_Centrist said:
What punishment should the offender undergo?
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I do not advocate punishment for mere rudeness. Only the offended person should not be bullied into silence when they complain of the offense.

If someone calls me a ‘fat slob’ (I actually am overweight) that person does not deserve to be sent to jail or lose their job just for that.
But neither should I be silenced with cries of ‘politically correct!’ or ‘oversensitive!’ when I point out how rude it is to call me a fat slob.

Offensive behavior can shade over into more serious offenses: harassment, hounding, threats. When that happens it needs to be dealt with and may require punishments.
But in that case it’s the harassment, threats or whatever that must be punished. Not just some offensive words.
 
That’s a fair answer and this has always applied to human relationships in one sense or another. If someone is offending you then you shouldn’t feel obligated to associate with that person. However, the criminalization of speech in Europe and the financial ruin it can lead to in America is going to backfire big time.
 
Take offense all you want, that’s your choice. Really, I’m not being sarcastic or mean, it’s simply the truth. Reason trumps irrational feelings. It’s better to rationally approach substantive arguments than to emotionally respond to them.

The type of power-play, manipulative communications you’re describing are something I loathe, and I guess ironically offend me 🙂 I just try to act cordial, mature and rational. Emotional mind games are not my thing.

To be politically incorrect, I think women and men have different nuances in the way they communicate. Because women are more empathetic, they tend to be more focused on feelings. Men tend to be more task driven and direct. Biology plays a big part in that. That may be offensive to a lot of people, but there’s a lot of evidence to back it up. Should I never bring it up in order to avoid offending someone?
 
I was making a clear distinction between harassment and offending someone. The two are not the same and I don’t understand why they are often combined.
Harassment has to be punished but offensive language, I don’t think so.
 
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