Poll: Circumcision: yes or know?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Chris_C
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Whitedove,
Whats your point? I think we all agree this is one area that is very personal, there are pro’s and con’s on both sides, so to each his own.
 
Dear kamz,
I was answering the previous post, the one right before mine. He stated in his post…

*" I doubt there are many circumcised men who long for the return of their foreskins, nor are there many uncircumcised men who wish theirs’ was history. I imagine that what you like is what you got " *

If you go to that website you will see that there is a group of men who wish to reclaim their foreskins! How about that? I’ll bet you didn’t know that!
 
Not “to each his own”…this issue is not without moral implications.

Ask yourself…

IF there is no demonstrable and SUBSTANTIAL health advantage to circumcision, then is it moral to inflict unnecessary pain and risk of infection on a newborn for purely aesthetic purposes?

I would say: NO, for such an act would be unnatural, unnecessary and go against right reason.

Just because many people do not think of this act in a moral context does not mean that it is devoid of any moral component.
 
Whitedove,
sorry, that was rude of me.
Again, I just think that in this area it is a personal thing.
I have seen it from both sides, my husband is circumcised as are my three sons, my dad is not and he wishes he was as he has had trouble and has seen several doctors through the years.
My dad thought (gee, am I the only one whith this problem and if so why me?) well, he found out that no, he is not the only man with this problem but also that to circumcise at his age it would cause a great deal of pain and he would not be able to work for a few weeks while it healed and he can’t do that with his line of work. So, he wishes that as an infant he would have been so lucky as his younger brothers to be born in a hospital rather than homebirth as that is the only reason he wasn’t circumcised.
I’m not debating that there are some men who may wish it hadn’t happen to them as babies but just as many are probably thrilled as is my husband that it was done. Two sides to every story.
Pro’s and Con’s for both not circumcising and circumcising.
Again, it all comes down to what a parent decides to do and hopefully the parent gets well informed before deciding one way or another.
Peace 😃
 
Ham1,
tell it to my dad who has sometimes terrible irritation and can hardly stand to put on pants and jeans.

I was with all my sons when they were circumcised and none of them cried at all, they were given a atopical pain med like when you get stitches they can rub on some liquid and it numbs it and you feel nothing. They never fussed once while I cleaned their circ while diapering and they were healed within one week.

I’ve seen far worse as in teens peircing every area they can on their bodies but not much is said about that. I’ve also seen parents who take their babies to have their ears peirced and nothing is said on that either.

Your stating your own personal feelings and that is fine but you don’t speak for everyone and you certainly don’t speak for God.
 
40.png
kamz:
Ham1,
tell it to my dad who has sometimes terrible irritation and can hardly stand to put on pants and jeans.

I was with all my sons when they were circumcised and none of them cried at all, they were given a atopical pain med like when you get stitches they can rub on some liquid and it numbs it and you feel nothing. They never fussed once while I cleaned their circ while diapering and they were healed within one week.

I’ve seen far worse as in teens peircing every area they can on their bodies but not much is said about that. I’ve also seen parents who take their babies to have their ears peirced and nothing is said on that either.

Your stating your own personal feelings and that is fine but you don’t speak for everyone and you certainly don’t speak for God.
Click to expand...
I didn’t claim to speak for God. But just because this isn’t specifically answered in the Catechism does not mean it is perfectly moral either way. I would say applying the same question that I posed above to infant piercing would apply as well.

As for your father, I am sorry that he has health issues, but that is one person. In my experience, the medical community seems to indicate that there is no real health benefit either way. If that is the case then we have to ask if it is moral to subject a baby to a procedure that can cause pain and/or infection for a purely arbitrary reason. It appears that any cost/benefit analysis would be quite unbalanced.

That is the logic behind my reasoning. If you disagree, please indicate where the argument is flawed rather than just accusing me of a “personal feeling.”
 
All I’m saying is where in the Bible does it say you shall not circumcise?
And where does it say that if you circumcise it is a sin?

Circumcision is not mutilating, my sons did not have a circumcision where they were cut, they had a little plastic ring put on the end of their penis, no blood, nothing, the ring fell off in one week, no mutilation in that.

If you want to see mutilation check out websites where women from Africa have their vaginas sewn shut without any pain meds so they will remain virgins or if they are suspected of not being virgins they are cut up all over in their vaginas, that is mutilation.
For you to say circumcision is mutilation is your opinion and there is nothing to debate about that.

Circumcision = personal decision made by parents not mutilation
 
40.png
kamz:
All I’m saying is where in the Bible does it say you shall not circumcise?
And where does it say that if you circumcise it is a sin?

Circumcision is not mutilating, my sons did not have a circumcision where they were cut, they had a little plastic ring put on the end of their penis, no blood, nothing, the ring fell off in one week, no mutilation in that.

If you want to see mutilation check out websites where women from Africa have their vaginas sewn shut without any pain meds so they will remain virgins or if they are suspected of not being virgins they are cut up all over in their vaginas, that is mutilation.
For you to say circumcision is mutilation is your opinion and there is nothing to debate about that.

Circumcision = personal decision made by parents not mutilation
Click to expand...
Okay, first off…whether the Bible says anything at all about prohibiting circumcision is totally irrelevant.

Second, I never said anything about mutilation. If you look at my original question it mentioned nothing of the sort.

Third, just by saying that it is a “personal decision” you seem to contend that it is an act without moral content. As I have mentioned two times now in previous posts, there does seem to be a moral issue involved.

The chief question is:

Is it moral to subject a baby to a procedure that can cause pain and/or infection for a purely arbitrary reason?

I would say “No.” Apparently, you would say, “Yes.” I disagree with you.
 
Ham1,

Sorry, I thought you posted that is was mutilation and you did not, so sorry.

All I have ever said was that this is a personal decision for a parent to make, I can’t choose if its right for your family and vise versa. And I can see that there can be pro’s and con’s to both sides.
That is all I have ever tried to state.

I was stating only that it is possible for later in life problems to arise as it did for my dad and my dad found out from several doctors that he was not the first patient to complain of such problems.

All, I’m trying to get across is #1 personal decision for parents to make #2 for people who say nothing will ever happen if you are not circ’d as far as pain later on, that is not always true.

So, each parent must make a decision that is right for them.

I’m not saying one is right or wrong both are fine.

Jesus was circumcised so I feel very good with my decision for my sons, my dad’s parents did not have him circumcised, thats fine, that was the decision they made and thats great.

In the end its up to the parents,
PEACE 👍
 
by the way, I see it was iguana27 who said this was a form of genital mutilation.

Again Ham1 I am very sorry. :o
 
Our first son was but then we realized that it was painful and very unnessesary(sp) Our 2nd son is not and this new one will not be either.
 
That’s no problem.

But…

I can’t agree with you on the personal decision idea. That decision can still be objectively moral or immoral.

The reasoning that you use to justify personal decision sounds an awful lot like the reasoning used by people to justify abortion. I am NOT accusing you of that. But it does seem that you are using the same reasoning.

Please note, I am not attempting to say that you committed any sin in having your boys circumcised. But I do think that a case could be made that circumcision is, in fact, objectively wrong. That is the case I attempted to make. I just don’t see a totally unnecessary medical procedure with increased risk to the health of the subject as a good thing. It seems to me that such an act is disordered. Using the same reasoning, I don’t think that purely elective plastic surgery would be moral either.

Please understand, I mean no offense. I merely want to discuss how one could construe circumcision as a morally good or non-moral act…Thanks!
 
40.png
OhioBob:
I think judgemental comments about genital mutilation made toward parents of circumcised sons are ludicrous and don’t make any constructive contribution to the debate :tsktsk: .
Click to expand...
I honestly believe that if more people considered the position of the defenseless child in this situation, they would not have the circumcision done. I hope you don’t think I am being judgemental of parents - just circumcision.

mu·ti·late tr.v. mu·ti·lat·ed, mu·ti·lat·ing, **mu·ti·lates **

  1. *]To deprive of a limb or an essential part; cripple.
    *]To disfigure by damaging irreparably: mutilate a statue. See Synonyms at batter1.
    *]To make imperfect by excising or altering parts.

    I believe that circumcision qualifies under the definition of mutilation and it concerns the genitals, therefore I believe that genital mutilation is an appropriate term.

    My boys have been told that if they want to be circumcised, they may do so when they turn 18. They don’t look very enthusiastic about the prospect! I wonder how many babies would choose circumcision.

    Have you ever seen a video of a circumcision? Have you seen the boards that they strap the babies to for the procedure? Ghastly.
 
Yes.

We do not need to get circumsized in the New Covenant. However, there is no prohibition against it. I still find the practice to be a way of honoring our connection with the past, and as a way of recognizing our religious heritage.
 
40.png
iguana27:
I honestly believe that if more people considered the position of the defenseless child in this situation, they would not have the circumcision done. I hope you don’t think I am being judgemental of parents - just circumcision.

mu·ti·late tr.v. mu·ti·lat·ed, mu·ti·lat·ing, **mu·ti·lates **

  1. *]To deprive of a limb or an essential part; cripple.
    *]To disfigure by damaging irreparably: mutilate a statue. See Synonyms at batter1.
    *]To make imperfect by excising or altering parts.

    I believe that circumcision qualifies under the definition of mutilation and it concerns the genitals, therefore I believe that genital mutilation is an appropriate term.

    My boys have been told that if they want to be circumcised, they may do so when they turn 18. They don’t look very enthusiastic about the prospect! I wonder how many babies would choose circumcision.

    Have you ever seen a video of a circumcision? Have you seen the boards that they strap the babies to for the procedure? Ghastly.
Click to expand...

  1. Well, then you are accusing God of implementing and demanding a procedure of barbaric mutilation. And I may add, it was a lot more demanding back then! groaning at the thought

    I, for one, completely disagree with you regardless of what Webster has to say.
 
Hi, all.

Male circumcition is mainly done for religious and cultural purposes. I have to admit that I was surprised when I found out that it’s a common practice in the USA and that many does it not out of religious purposes, but because everybody else does it. At least that’s my impression :hmmm:

In Scandinavia only Muslims and Jews circumcise their sons. Nobody else does it, except for medical reasons like problems with the foreskin.

Like any procedure it has it’s pros and cons. Let the parents themselves consider all implications and take the decision.
 
40.png
iguana27:
Have you ever seen a video of a circumcision? Have you seen the boards that they strap the babies to for the procedure? Ghastly.
Click to expand...
I have seen the procedure first hand, and while I can’t say I would have the nerve to do it as an adult, the child doesn’t seem to mind it much.

I can’t say that I disagree with the moral/non-moral argument that HAM is making, although it would seem that the question comes down to a judgement on the parents’ part of the objective and subjective pros and cons. I disagree that the medical issues are as cut and dried (no pun intended) as HAM suggests.

It would seem that parents make any number of judgements for their children that could fall into a similar category (i.e PE tubes for ears, tonsils, certain cosmetic procedures done in infancy) that are subject to conflicting medical opinions regarding efficacy or are done for subjective, rather than objective reasons. In my mind, circumcision is one of those issues.

Again, I feel that it is the parents’ duty to weigh the medical and non-medical arguments, subjective and objective, pro and con, and arrive at what they feel is the best decision for their child.

The fact that the result might cause pain and/or discomfort to the infant is not necessarily the overwhelming moral compass. A great many things cause pain and discomfort to infants but sometimes it is necessary for the perceived greater good of the child. I guess the point of endless contention is that perception…
 
If it was good enough for Jesus then its good enough for me.

This is not the same as abortion, this is not a problem with Jesus, how could it be a problem with Jesus when he himself was circumcised?

This is not abortion, this is not mutilation.

My sons screamed like insane when they have their immunizations done and some say those are not nessessary either(some people do believe immunizations are not nessessary)
so, I must be mutilating my children when they get their shots, and believe me, they screamed like crazy at immunizations and not a peep in circumcision, they were looking around the room and sucking on my finger 👍
 
Ohiobob,
You just keep hitting the nail right on.
You are writing exactly what I’m thinking! 🙂
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top