Poll: majority of Catholics who attend Mass weekly support same-sex marriage, women's ordination [CWN]

[Personanongrata]

Not surprised at all.

This is not news. It’s life.

 

[Country_Gal]

So, if the Church wants an accurate poll, they should hand one to each Church goer on an average weekend, at all Masses, Vigil and Sunday.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Just goes to show how off course many people are about what makes one faithful, sitting in the pews doesn’t mean anything when you are supporting heterodox beliefs.

(nor does a baptismal certificate. )

These pollsters always try imply that regular mass goers are magically representative of orthodoxy.

Actually, the pollsters don’t care about orthodoxy. They apply the same “democratic” and “changing” model of secular life (moral relativism and consensus) to an institution which represents absolute truths. The models are incongruent, but the pollsters don’t care.

 

[EphelDuath]

Why should anybody here care?

No, seriously. Who cares?

A campaign manager for a politician might take interest in this for electoral predictions. People who make sacramental wine and wafers, mayhaps, will have to consider how much less supply they’ll produce if U.S. bishops come out more authoritatively on receiving communion while holding mortally sinful beliefs. The pollsters themselves, of course, get lots of media attention (and therefore ad revenue).

Beyond those people, what does it matter to you or me? The people on this forum are well aware that the Church has no authority to ordain women, and that two people of the same sex cannot enter into a marriage. Neither the truth, nor the Church’s infallible teachings, are democratic.

Continue (start if you have not yet) praying for those who dissent against the Church or are improperly catechized. Beyond that, who cares?

 

[Lapey]

Your statement is so very true, Deacon, but I’m afraid I’m losing patience with the dissidents aka the progressives, and therefore, the “enlightened ones.” Most of them know exactly what the Church teaches and want nothing to do with it because it differs from their own opinions.

Have patience and pray. The pendulum is starting to swing back. It is inevitable as the Church as a whole remains centrists through all of history. It may swing left or right at times, but She always remains in truth!

:knight2:

Pray…Pray…and be vigilant!

 

[sw85]

You can find different polls by different polling groups on Catholics views on marriage and/or abortion and they have totally different results

The Qunnipiac poll results in regards to homosexual marriage from the poll released in October that is being discussed in this thread shows different results to a Quinnipiac poll released in March which found 55% of weekly mass going Catholics oppose homosexual marriage to 38%

Regular Massgoers Oppose Same-Sex ‘Marriage,’ Poll Shows

Other polls

2006 Zogby poll

Poll: Catholics Who Regularly Attend Mass Don’t Support Abortion

March 2013 released CBS/New York times poll found 35% of Catholics who attend Church weekly or more think abortion should be limited, 35% think it should not be permitted comapred to 43% of people who go to the Church less than weekly agree that it should be generally available

cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57572665/u.s-catholics-want-a-younger-more-liberal-pope

August 2013 Pew poll

pewforum.org/2013/08/15/abortion-viewed-in-moral-terms

Actually those results line up with these ones pretty well. Regular Mass-goers tend to be more faithful to the Church’s teachings than non-regular ones. Since non-regular Mass-goers are still a pretty big chunk of self-identified Catholics, including them skews the results considerably.

Why should anybody here care?

No, seriously. Who cares?

Anyone who cares about the salvation of souls should care.

 

[EphelDuath]

Anyone who cares about the salvation of souls should care.

I ended my post with:

“Continue (start if you have not yet) praying for those who dissent against the Church or are improperly catechized. Beyond that, who cares?”

 

[Slaney]

Continue (start if you have not yet) praying for those who dissent against the Church or are improperly catechized. Beyond that, who cares?

We should care because they can contaminate others with their views, like that bad apple in the barrel…

Anyway it’s as plain as the nose on our faces that it’s forbidden…

Leviticus 20:13
If any one lie with a man as with a woman, both have committed an abomination, let them be put to death: their blood be upon them.

PS: yes I saw they bit where you said to pray for them, but are our prayers any good if we don’t pray for them out of love ?

 

[EphelDuath]

We should care because they can contaminate others with their views, like that bad apple in the barrel…

Refute their errors when you come across them. What does it matter to you or me what percentage of the population holds them?

 

[Country_Gal]

We should care because they can contaminate others with their views, like that bad apple in the barrel…

Anyway it’s as plain as the nose on our faces that it’s forbidden…

Leviticus 20:13
If any one lie with a man as with a woman, both have committed an abomination, let them be put to death: their blood be upon them.

PS: yes I saw they bit where you said to pray for them, but are our prayers any good if we don’t pray for them out of love ?

More from Leviticus:

Leviticus 15:16-18 If a man has an emission of semen, he shall bathe his whole body in water, and be unclean until the evening. And every garment and every skin on which the semen comes shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the evening. If a man lies with a woman…both of them shall… be unclean until the evening

Leviticus 24:16 He who blasphemes the name of the Lord shall be put to death; the whole congregation shall stone him…

Leviticus 11:7-8:
7 And the pig, though it has a split hoof completely divided, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. 8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you.

People who have flat noses, or are blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God
~Leviticus 21:17-18

 

[EphelDuath]

More from Leviticus:

Lev. 18:22, 29 - God commands a man never to lie with a male as with a female, or he will be cut off. This refers to supernatural death which is eternal separation from God. While the Old Covenant laws have been abrogated by the New Covenant, the Church has adopted their moral principles. Thus, the moral prohibitions on homosexuality still apply in the New Covenant, as Peter, Paul and Jude demonstrate.

Jude 5-7: Like Peter, Jude confirms that the Sodomites are in hell by saying that they had the same fate as the evil angels. Jude says just as the evil angels were condemned to hell, the Sodomites “likewise” (Greek, hos) acted immorally and are undergoing a punishment of eternal fire. “Undergoing” (Greek, upechousai) is a present participle which means their suffering is ongoing. See also the clear polarity between those who are saved (v.5) and those who are condemned (vv. 6-7,11,13).

Source

 

[JimG]

If a majority of Catholics support same sex marriage, it means that most Catholics no longer know what marriage IS—i.e. a life long marital relationship between a man and a woman which is unitive and procreative and exclusive for life.

That, of course, would also explain the huge increase in the number of declarations of nullity granted to Catholics who entered into null marriages. Much of society has already lost the knowledge of what marriage is. The fact that Catholics are following the same path means that marriage is being deconstructed, and along with it, families and civilization.

As for the impossibility of ordaining woman, that has already been definitively addressed by the Church. So we seem to be losing our sacramental sense as well.

One can only hope that this can be turned around.

 

[EphelDuath]

If a majority of Catholics support same sex marriage, it means that most Catholics no longer know what marriage IS—i.e. a life long marital relationship between a man and a woman which is unitive and procreative and exclusive for life.

That, of course, would also explain the huge increase in the number of declarations of nullity granted to Catholics who entered into null marriages. Much of society has already lost the knowledge of what marriage is. The fact that Catholics are following the same path means that marriage is being deconstructed, and along with it, families and civilization.

As for the impossibility of ordaining woman, that has already been definitively addressed by the Church. So we seem to be losing our sacramental sense as well.

One can only hope that this can be turned around.

Personally I am unafraid. Not just because I believe Mt 16:18-19, but because there is nothing new under the sun.

Let’s keep in mind what the western world looked like when Christ was born: the Roman Empire dashed the heads of physically deformed infants against the rocks. They had rape orgies with the female concubines they abducted from conquered nations. They executed alleged criminals by nailing their arms and legs to a cross. Taxes went to polytheistic worship in the state’s temples. The majority of people desired their god-emperor to rule the whole world and subject them to these values.

And the Church conquered THAT! Not by war, not by politics, but by prayer and sacrifice in Christ

By contrast, the Devil’s grasp of the world right now is barely comparable, for there are millions of faithful Christians attending Holy Mass every single day for the reparation of sinners.

“The LORD is with me; whom shall I fear?”

Do your part in prayer and catechesis. Leave the anxiety for God, he knows what’s best.

 

[JimG]

Personally I am unafraid. Not just because I believe Mt 16:18-19, but because there is nothing new under the sun.

Let’s keep in mind what the western world looked like when Christ was born: the Roman Empire dashed the heads of physically deformed infants against the rocks. They had rape orgies with the female concubines they abducted from conquered nations. They executed alleged criminals by nailing their arms and legs to a cross. Taxes went to polytheistic worship in the state’s temples. The majority of people desired their god-emperor to rule the whole world and subject them to these values.

And the Church conquered THAT! Not by war, not by politics, but by prayer and sacrifice in Christ

By contrast, the Devil’s grasp of the world right now is barely comparable, for there are millions of faithful Christians attending Holy Mass every single day for the reparation of sinners.

“The LORD is with me; whom shall I fear?”

Do your part in prayer and catechesis. Leave the anxiety for God, he knows what’s best.

It’s quite true that Christianity triumphed over the Roman world by adherence to Christ, and non-adherence to the world. Today, it seems to me, Christians are doing the opposite–conforming themselves to the corruption of the world. What else could the poll results mean?

Of course Christ will triumph in the end. He gives us no guarantee that we will not have to endure some dark ages along the way. The fall of Roman civilization resulted in a civilization in chaos. The rebuilding of a Christian civilization was tedious, slow, and hard work. The Church accomplished that rebuilding once, and will do it again, but we can’t start the task as long as we are accommodating ourselves to the world.

 

[M-Dent]

If a majority of Catholics support same sex marriage, it means that most Catholics no longer know what marriage IS—i.e. a life long marital relationship between a man and a woman which is unitive and procreative and exclusive for life.

That, of course, would also explain the huge increase in the number of declarations of nullity granted to Catholics who entered into null marriages. Much of society has already lost the knowledge of what marriage is. The fact that Catholics are following the same path means that marriage is being deconstructed, and along with it, families and civilization.

Jim,

Yes. For some, the problem may go even deeper.

The Chief Rabbi of France, Gilles Bernheim, has shown in a very detailed and profoundly moving study that the attack we are currently experiencing on the true structure of the family, made up of father, mother, and child, goes much deeper. While up to now we regarded a false understanding of the nature of human freedom as one cause of the crisis of the family, it is now becoming clear that the very notion of being – of what being human really means – is being called into question. He quotes the famous saying of Simone de Beauvoir: “one is not born a woman, one becomes so” (on ne naît pas femme, on le devient). These words lay the foundation for what is put forward today under the term “gender” as a new philosophy of sexuality. According to this philosophy, sex is no longer a given element of nature, that man has to accept and personally make sense of: it is a social role that we choose for ourselves, while in the past it was chosen for us by society. The profound falsehood of this theory and of the anthropological revolution contained within it is obvious. People dispute the idea that they have a nature, given by their bodily identity, that serves as a defining element of the human being. They deny their nature and decide that it is not something previously given to them, but that they make it for themselves. According to the biblical creation account, being created by God as male and female pertains to the essence of the human creature. This duality is an essential aspect of what being human is all about, as ordained by God.

BENEDICT XVI December 2012

 

[Tigg]

Why should anybody here care?

No, seriously. Who cares?

As this is Catholic Answers forum and many many come to this apologetic site for Catholic views, I care a lot. I often wonder about the lurkers who are weak in faith and read the posts from the heterodox.

Do your part in prayer and catechesis. Leave the anxiety for God, he knows what’s best.

Sound advice!

 

[JimG]

Jim,

Yes. For some, the problem may go even deeper.

Indeed. Justice Kennedy inserted something similar into his opinion in the Casey decision:

“At the heart of liberty is the right to define one’s own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life.”

Some conservatives might even like this idea. The ultimate freedom is the freedom to ignore reality, to decide for yourself, to go against reality itself. It is the ultimate in subjectivism, and it leads to legal and social chaos.

 

[Gricken]

Good for them . Doesn’t mean it’s gonna happen.

 

[Sarabande]

It’s just a poll and really means nothing. That said, many of the Catholics I know don’t think that the government should be telling any kind of churches what they should accept. They are ok with the Catholic Church not having female priests or gay marriage and some even actually understand the Church’s stance. It doesn’t bother them. At the same time, they don’t care if other denominations have female clergy or if secular governments and other denominations accept gay marriage. They think of it as a separation of Church and State. It is more of “as long as it doesn’t affect my church, I don’t care” mentality.

Now, I do know there are liberal Catholics out there who openly support both and are critical of the Church about it, but with what I’ve seen, it’s a little more nuanced for most of the Catholics I know. I do think that the idea of “separation of Church and State” is what keeps a lot of them from thinking they are “ok” as long as the State doesn’t touch or affect the Church with their beliefs.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Not surprised at all.

You do understand that the Church IS NOT a political entity,don’t you?
You do understand that in the Catholic Faith we have Sacred Tradition,Sacred Scripture,Deposit of Faith.
You do understand that the truths and teachings of our faith are God’s Truth,we cannot bend them to suit the whims of society.
ThevCatholic Church has survived for over 2,000 years.There are now over 38,000 plus Christian faiths,this because somebody,starting with Luther thought they had a better plan than Christ.
Poor cathechesis,is what causes these poorly informed responses from those who identify as Catholics,…