Poll: majority of Catholics who attend Mass weekly support same-sex marriage, women's ordination [CWN]

[Bookcat]

“Polling public opinion to determine the proper thing to think or do, opposing the Magisterium by exerting the pressure of public opinion,… all this indicates a grave loss of the sense of truth and of the sense of the Church.”

CDF document Donum Veritatis -Signed by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger

Thankfully as the other posts above noted this was a rather small and limited and very faulty poll anyhow…

But alas it will be used to seek to oppose the Church by some…

 

[LiberalPrincess]

And to those attacking the methodology, I would add that Quinnipiac is a highly regarded polling firm. You probably have heard of them during election years. They usually are very good at predicting election outcomes.

 

[pnewton]

These type of surveys almost always find what they want to find. I note the professor made this statement:

“On the two issues that have prompted some pulpit thundering, same-sex marriage and abortion, Catholics are right in line, or even a little ahead, of their non-Catholic neighbors,” Carroll said.

Note he did not say that they were a little larger percentage, but they were ahead. He leaves the language of math and enters the language of social politics with that phrase. So, when these interviews are being discussed (the states listed below, but not the numbers from which) how easy would it be to be quicker to receive a refusal from one call as opposed to another call. Even they way they introduce themselves may make any of us hang up more than some pro-homosexual.

The person conduct the poll sets the results. Oh, states were:

The Quinnipiac University Poll, directed by Douglas Schwartz, Ph.D., conducts public opinion surveys in Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Florida, Iowa, Ohio, Colorado, Virginia and the nation as a public service and for research.

Now, do I think that maybe a third of Catholics are totally ignorant on the subject of homosexual morality, Catholic teaching on abortion and the total impossibility of women priests? Yes. Some people would rather be willfully ignorant than change politics or lifestyle.

 

[Jessie5000]

It doesn’t matter if homosexuality is innate or learned.

The tendency to commit adultery may well have genetic causes; that still wouldn’t make it right.

God Bless

Judging others might be innate as well, but it does not make it right.

 

[LiberalPrincess]

Judging others might be innate as well, but it does not make it right.

Agree

In the words of Pope Francis:

“A person once asked me, in a provocative manner, if I approved of homosexuality. I replied with another question: ‘Tell me: when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?’ We must always consider the person. "

 

[Ridgerunner]

This part is interesting:

“The survey also found that 52% of Catholics who attend Mass weekly, and 66% who attend less frequently, favor the ordination of women to the priesthood. Support was stronger among Catholics of age 65+ (68%) than ages 50-64 (64%) or 18-49 (57%). By a slight (2%) margin, women are more likely to favor women’s ordination than men are.”

The approval of ordination of women drops with age. This may be suggestive of something I have tentatively believed for some time. People who “came of age” in the rebellious years and were subjected to the most intensively bad catechesis are the most infected with residual rebellion

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

I would imagine that those who say they are for it are stretching the truth by stating that they attend Mass weekly.

 

[EphelDuath]

Judging others might be innate as well, but it does not make it right.

Agree

In the words of Pope Francis:

“A person once asked me, in a provocative manner, if I approved of homosexuality. I replied with another question: ‘Tell me: when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?’ We must always consider the person. "

Correct. Judging others is wrong.

Let the distinction be between judging people, which is the faculty of almighty God, and judging actions, which all Christians are always called to do. Failing to reprove one of their sins is morally equivalent to committing the sin yourself.

The maxim is, “Hate the sin, love the sinner.” St. Augustine did not say “Hate your own sins, love the sinner while ignoring his sins.”

Frequently the argument that “you shouldn’t judge others” is brought up in the case of things that liberals really approve of, like homosexual actions and abortion, as a way to end rational discussion. They never seem to bring it up in the cases of rape or racism; oh no, in those cases, we can firmly judge the actions as wrong. But it’s the same there too: hate the sin, love the sinner. Reprove of homosexual actions, abortion, rape, and racism, while having Christian love to the homosexual, mother, rapist, and racist.

 

[bilop]

Judging others might be innate as well, but it does not make it right.

I’m judging no one. “Judging” means saying someone will be damned for something.

I’m simply stating that homosexual sex acts, just like extramarital sex acts are gravely sinful. I am evaluating the act, not the person.

We’ve all committed plenty of mortal sins, yet all hope to be saved through repentance, absolution, and God’s Grace.

God Bless

 

[Jeanne_S]

Well, I’m not going to respond to everything you are throwing at me in that rant-esqe post. I don’t see what the Reformation has anything to do with what I said.

I do not see the gay marriage debate as a “religious” or “Catholic” issue. The Vatican can teach and approve what it wants like it always has, and churches should be FREE to define marriage as a union only between a man and a woman.

It becomes problematic when traditionalists try to deny others the legal protections under the state that they claim for their own. Period. It really is that simple. You don’t have to agree with homosexuality. You don’t have to like it, but don’t try to deny equal protections under the state to others based on personal religious convictions.

After re reading this response from you,I would like to address a few .
My point in mentioning the thousands of Christian faiths dovetailed with your belief that the Church should be more open and progressive,as your self proclaimed identity states.
You then mention ,not seeing SS marriage as religious orvCatholic " thing.Really? if you are a Catholic,believe that our church is founded on the truths and teachings of Our Lord Jesus Christ,then you better believe it’s a Catholic thing.To go against this is to go against Christ.
You don’t have to like the fact that SSA is couter to natural order,you don’t have to like the fact that it goes against the teachings of the Church,however,your comments indicate how poorly cathetized you are.
A good start would be the Cathecism. Hopefully you will gain a better perspective on the beautiful gift,which is our Catholic Faith.

 

[Jessie5000]

Well, I’m not going to respond to everything you are throwing at me in that rant-esqe post. I don’t see what the Reformation has anything to do with what I said.

I do not see the gay marriage debate as a “religious” or “Catholic” issue. The Vatican can teach and approve what it wants like it always has, and churches should be FREE to define marriage as a union only between a man and a woman.

It becomes problematic when traditionalists try to deny others the legal protections under the state that they claim for their own. Period. It really is that simple. You don’t have to agree with homosexuality. You don’t have to like it, but don’t try to deny equal protections under the state to others based on personal religious convictions.

yes, the gay community,when asking for marriage, asks this of the civil secular society. Their agenda is simple: They desire the same rights given to others covered by the constitution. There are over 1100 rights denied to LGBT people. Seems like a civil rights issue. The Church has made their decision so let secular society make a decision.

 

[LiberalPrincess]

yes, the gay community,when asking for marriage, asks this of the civil secular society. Their agenda is simple: They desire the same rights given to others covered by the constitution. There are over 1100 rights denied to LGBT people. Seems like a civil rights issue. The Church has made their decision so let secular society make a decision.

 

[bilop]

Agree

In the words of Pope Francis:

“A person once asked me, in a provocative manner, if I approved of homosexuality. I replied with another question: ‘Tell me: when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?’ We must always consider the person. "

I fully accept the person. Inclinations towards homosexuality are not sinful. Just like being tempted to cheat on your wife, or fornicate with your girlfriend, or steal, is not sinful.

The acts are sinful; the acts are what we must reject, not the people. Each of us is tempted to different sins. We help each other by acknowledging the temptation, retaining the truth of what is right and what is wrong, and urging each other to repent and seek absolution when we fail, and give in to temptation.

God Bless

 

[Slaney]

Agree

In the words of Pope Francis:

“A person once asked me, in a provocative manner, if I approved of homosexuality. I replied with another question: ‘Tell me: when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?’ We must always consider the person. "

And we must also direct them along the right path, as Jesus did with others, the woman taken in adultery was only one example.

Sir.15

[16] He has placed before you fire and water:
stretch out your hand for whichever you wish.

 

[Jessie5000]

After re reading this response from you,I would like to address a few .
My point in mentioning the thousands of Christian faiths dovetailed with your belief that the Church should be more open and progressive,as your self proclaimed identity states.
You then mention ,not seeing SS marriage as religious orvCatholic " thing.Really? if you are a Catholic,believe that our church is founded on the truths and teachings of Our Lord Jesus Christ,then you better believe it’s a Catholic thing.To go against this is to go against Christ.
You don’t have to like the fact that SSA is conter to natural order,you dn’t have to like it either,however your comments show how poorly you understand your faith.
A good start would be the Cathecism. Hopefully Ypu will gain a better perspective on the beautiful gift,which is our Catholic Faith.

your response to princess liberal is harsh, condescending, and very judgemental. I pray the Lord judges you in a softer manner.

 

[EphelDuath]

yes, the gay community,when asking for marriage, asks this of the civil secular society. Their agenda is simple: They desire the same rights given to others covered by the constitution. There are over 1100 rights denied to LGBT people. Seems like a civil rights issue. The Church has made their decision so let secular society make a decision.

Refusing to acknowledge square circles doesn’t refuse rights to anybody, it’s just being honest with yourself in respect to nature. Just the same, refusing to acknowledge homosexual ‘marriage’ doesn’t deny rights to anybody; except the right to truth, which is being denied to homosexuals by tacit approval of their actions.

So in reality, a catechized Catholic that acknowledges homosexual ‘marriage’ is guilty of discrimination and hatred.

The real homophobes are the Christians that are aware of divine law in respect to sexuality and willingly contradict it, or silently approve of others’ contradictions of it.

 

[LiberalPrincess]

After re reading this response from you,I would like to address a few .
My point in mentioning the thousands of Christian faiths dovetailed with your belief that the Church should be more open and progressive,as your self proclaimed identity states.
You then mention ,not seeing SS marriage as religious orvCatholic " thing.Really? if you are a Catholic,believe that our church is founded on the truths and teachings of Our Lord Jesus Christ,then you better believe it’s a Catholic thing.To go against this is to go against Christ.
You don’t have to like the fact that SSA is couter to natural order,you don’t have to like the fact that it goes against the teachings of the Church,however,your comments indicate how poorly cathetized you are.
A good start would be the Cathecism. Hopefully you will gain a better perspective on the beautiful gift,which is our Catholic Faith.

Your argument would be sound if there wasn’t something called the Constitution and the First Amendment. Like I said, I don’t see this as a religious, moral or Christian issue.

IN THE STATE, you cannot deny others equal rights that you enjoy based on your religious convictions, which would certainly include your assertion that SSA is “counter to natural order”

 

[Jeanne_S]

your response to princess liberal is harsh, condescending, and very judgemental. I pray the Lord judges you in a softer manner.

Judgmental?It’s called fraternal correction,something I am open to,if it should ever be noticed by another faithful Catholic that I am misinformed about Church teachings.
She and you are sorely misinformed re the teachings on SS marriage.
Another suggestion would be to read Pope Pious IX encyclical"Humanea Vitae"
He addresses the sanctity of life and all the social issues of our time.His predictions of what would happen to the family structure with the availability of contraception,was divinely guided and very prescient.What he predicted,we arenow living.
The push to normalize anything and everything EXCEPT, man and woman as the optimal and God inspired relationship is ruinous to our society.especially our children who are growing up confused about all thing sexual.

 

[EphelDuath]

Your argument would be sound if there wasn’t something called the Constitution and the First Amendment. Like I said, I don’t see this as a religious, moral or Christian issue.

Then you are willingly closing your eyes to tacitly approve of sin, and (assuming you have full knowledge of the gravity of the sin) are sharing the moral responsibility of the sin itself.

Christ didn’t come to earth to say “Be Christian, but not in the public sphere, because that would be imposing your beliefs on others.” No, he said, “I am THE way, THE truth, THE life”.

IN THE STATE, you cannot deny others equal rights that you enjoy based on your religious convictions, which would certainly include your assertion that SSA is “counter to natural order”

That marriage is inherently a reproductive institution is not just a religious conviction. It’s also a part of moral philosophy and natural law, appeals to which can be made without religion.

Perhaps if you belong to a pagan religion, you can appeal to religious liberty in regards to homosexual ‘marriage’. But it’s still against the common good and does harm to others per the family, so a state is perfectly just in not recognizing the “marriages”.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Your argument would be sound if there wasn’t something called the Constitution and the First Amendment. Like I said, I don’t see this as a religious, moral or Christian issue.

IN THE STATE, you cannot deny others equal rights that you enjoy based on your religious convictions, which would certainly include your assertion that SSA is “counter to natural order”

One more time,If as a Catholic you don’t defend the sanctity of marriage as between man and woman you are going against God’s natural order. What you are saying is akin to the comments I hear re abortion:." I personally would never have one,but who am I to tell another how to live" Or" you can’t legislate morality"
Wevare called to live out the gospel in our daily lives,this includes speaking out against these issues.If not us then who?